EXCLUSIVE: Parallel Lines?

A reader submits:

 One of these is not like the other one…. I’m not a forensic weapons expert, but I did pass School C maths and am able to identify parallel lines….


You will note too that none of lines on the thumbs of Joe Karam’s “independent” testers line up the markings the same way as they are on Robin Bain’s hands…now that the lines showing the markings is extended it become obvious.

Another of Joe Karam’s spin lines put to bed for what it is, a shameless attempt to raid the public purse.

What Joe Karam has done though in shopping this shameful spin tot he media is highlight the inconsistencies of his claims over the years.

Karam has claimed variously that Robin Bain wore gloves so that there could be no fingerprints on the rifle. But now they are claiming that he loaded the magazines, but if you were holding the magazines and loading it why no fingerprints on the magazines…both of them?

The shameful way some of our media have behaved is a travesty for media independence and integrity. They have been drawn in and in many ways acted in a complicit way simply to further the aims of David Bain and Joe Karam.


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  • cows4me

    If you stare at lines long enough do they merge, is this a brainteaser?

    • IWantToBeLikeMallardOneDay

      It’s like gestalt or something the lefties in the media will become enamoured of very easily, so yeah…

  • johnbronkhorst

    Police should still have secured the hand and feet of all the victims, for analysis.
    I’ve seen CSI on TV.

  • johnbronkhorst

    I still believe Robin killed the family and David killed Robin. Due to the bloody foot prints being too small for David to make.

    • Refn8tor

      So why didn’t he confess to that? Why take the blame for the lot?

    • Honcho

      David definitely did kill Stephen, Robin did not.

      • Mangi Nambis

        So could Stephen have killed everyone and David killed Stephen?
        I have never paid much attention to this case to be honest

        • Guest


    • sarah

      and this is how that rascal Ewen McDonald got off… Really says alot

      • pukakidon

        That is the problem with our justice system. Among the smart people that read and analyse the evidence and know the truth that DB did his family in, there are many who do not and just listen to the bias nonsense that spews out of TV 3.

        This has become an utter joke. And to blame an innocent victim of murder is bloody disgraceful.

        • IWantToBeLikeMallardOneDay

          Don’t forget Wendy Petrie’s fist pump! Should have stuck to cheerleading.

  • Edwin Wigmore

    Very good point.

    I raised another point I don’t believe was covered by any other media. They allege the marks were fine gun powder residue. This should have been smudged or smeered when Robin (allegedly) typed the farewell note. The fact they were in pristine condition doesn’t add up.

    • johnbronkhorst

      2 finger typist.?

    • unsol

      Since you seem so familiar with the case can you please direct me to the evidence that proves the firearm was reloaded after the messaged was typed.

      • Steve

        Better question is why reload a second magazine when you’ve already killed everyone?
        And if not smudged by the typing, would you not expect a bit of smudging with the less than orthodox angle of the self inflicted wound?

        • unsol

          Well then why would DB needed to have used both magazines?

  • Rangi

    You’re absolutely right! You are not a forensic weapons expert…

    He’s been through the most thorough legal process our system allows for. That’s a viscous sense of entitlement you have there Cam to cast aspersions on that thorough legal process.Yet he’s been found not guilty. He’s spent 13 years in jail despite that verdict. Not only did he “grow up” in prison, he’s had to grow up without his family which he had no discernible motive to harm.

    To save further embarrassment & conjecture, just pay the poor bastard out & move on.

    • Agent BallSack

      99 times out of 100 when theres a family massacre and 1 person miraculously survives…you have found your killer. The other 1% is a child hiding under a bed or in a closet.

      • unsol

        99%??? I suppose the 1% excludes Sarah Maynard…

        • Steve

          Hey John,
          How many of 66 were sole survivors unharmed when all of their other siblings were murdered?

          • John

            Don’t have that info. The study says they either witnessed the killings, were nearby, or found the bodies – it doesn’t mention anything at all about injuries.

          • Steve

            So your evidence doesn’t actually disprove what Ballsack is
            saying… it merely suggests that kids aren’t
            always killed in murder suicides.

            It’s semantics anyway I suspect the point Ballsack is trying
            to make is that (anecdotally at least) when an entire family is murdered and
            one person is left unscathed, they’re either the culprit or there’s a very
            clear reason why they’re still alive…. In the movies it’s because they were
            hiding under the bed and the killer missed them or because they missed their
            usual bus and arrived home late…. In the Bain household, apparently it wasn’t any
            of those reasons, it wasn’t even because David happened to be on his paper run.
            We’re to believe that Robin for reasons unexplained decided that not only was
            David the only one that deserved to live, he also owed him the worlds shortest
            explanation…….Seems legit.

            I mean, if you’re that sure that all of your kids except for
            one deserve to die… and you know that the deserving one is also more than
            likely he’s going to walk on in and see blood all over the place and bodies
            everywhere…. You’re going to want to give him some sort of explanation as to why
            you’ve made the decision… you’re going to want to wait to fire up the computer,
            wait for it to boot up and you’re going to want to make it fulsome, so that
            perhaps the child that you loved above all the others can over time he may
            understand why… Yep “sorry, you are the only one who deserved to stay” covers
            all bases…

            Oh, that’s right… he had a full bladder, maybe it was a case
            of “yeah, nah…. I’d write more but I’m busting for a piss, so I better shoot
            myself in the head now”.

      • John

        Made up nonsense. In 2010 in the States, there were 111 young people (18 and under) at family murder-suicide crime scenes. 55 were killed, and 66 were survivors who witnessed it.

        In almost all cases the perpetrator is a father or step-father who is depressed.

        Stats from Canada show “Between 2001 and 2011, one in five family-related homicide-suicides involved children and youth under the age of 18. Parents and step-parents accounted for 95% of those responsible for the murder-suicides against a child or youth.”

        • Bunswalla

          I call bullshit – you can’t even count mate. 55 and 66 is 121 – got any more stats to pull out of your arse?

          • John

            You’re right – I did mis-count. Here’s the quote from the US Violence Policy Centre ”

            Fifty-five of the homicide victims were children and teens less than 18 years of age. Sixty-six children and teens less than 18 years of age were survivors who witnessed some aspect of the murder-suicide.”

      • fozzie2

        Says who – where is your study Ballsy ?

        • Agent BallSack

          It was a generalisation…how about I am 99% sure that the murderer of the Bain family is still alive and walking around as a free man, having convinced himself they all deserved to die.

          • fozzie2

            Wow what a visionary …..

          • Agent BallSack

            Thanks! ☻

    • Agent BallSack

      “no discernable motive to harm….” You have seen the jerseys he had to wear?

    • Bunswalla

      Excellent suggestion, Rang’ – you’ll be the first to chip in some of your hard-earned to help “pay the poor bastard” – won’t you?

      • Rangi

        I would sooner do that than pay for an 8% guaranteed return for SCF investors but hey,,,,,that’s just me…

    • Steve

      I think the meaning is, you don’t have to be an expert to see that the magazine
      makes parallel lines, the lines on Robin’s thumb are clearly not parallel….

      The aspersions Cam (or any of us) place on the legal process are absolutely no
      different to the aspersions that Karam and Bain placed on the system when they
      went through the appeal process….

      The reason David spent 13 years in jail was BECAUSE of a verdict, not DESPITE
      a verdict.

      The unfortunate thing for David is that any one of a number of things could
      have provided conclusive proof that it was Robin. A handwritten note, finger
      prints on the trigger, blood on Robin’s clothes, a “traditional” suicide shot
      or probably most morbidly a dead David….

      If some conclusive proof comes out that
      proves David had nothing to do with the murders, I’ll grab my flag and help
      campaign for compensation…. The fact that the supposedly “conclusive” “knockout
      blow” is at best dubious, at worst baseless and disprovable by anyone with a
      ruler and an ounce of common sense suggests that their opinions are formed on
      information less robust than this….. and perhaps also suggests that David’s
      team have no answers for the mountain that evidence that are improbable,
      unbelievable or just missing if we’re to believe that Robin was the killer.

      • fozzie2

        And as soon as the ‘evidence is review by judicial experts outside the incestuous NZ legal system viola – the conviction is unsafe and review a second time regarded on the balance of evident innocent. It too the Privy Council to begin the processes of freeing Arthur Alan Thomas. These is something seriously wrong here where innocent people can rot in prison for so long, and the powers that be are so wrapped up in legal process that they are happy to see this happen.

        • Bunswalla

          The “evidence” was not reviewed by people outside the incestuous NZ legal system, for the most part. In case you weren’t following the retrial, most of the original evidence was destroyed – standard procedure after a trial, an appeal and a decade have all passed.

          The so-called experts from the UK offered opinions based on their understanding, not on the evidence, which they weren’t able to examine. They looked at photographs, read descriptions and statements, and pontificated. This had the added advantage (for the defence) that it could not be disproved.

          • fozzie2

            Bull Bunsy – the evidence was destroyed by the police while a the appeals process was still in play. Why was it destroyed – why did they allow the house to burn ?? This has been the most controversial case in NZ legal history and police use “standard proceedure” to destroy what was vital to the defense case ? Pull the other one !!

          • Bunswalla

            Fozzie I’ve followed this case very closely and I’m aware of the timelines. It’s clear you haven’t and are not. Bain was convicted in June 1995, and appealed immediately. The Court of Appeal refused to even hear the case because the evidence was so strong. There was no Supreme Court in NZ, and Bain appealed to the Privy Council, which also declined to hear the case. Bail then (in 1998) appealed to the Governor General for a pardon, which was also refused (seeing a bit of a pattern here?). Phil Goff, who we know is an idiot, did however recommend the Court of Appeal revisit the case, as Karam was bleating on about “new evidence” but once again in 2003 the Court of Appeal ruled that nothing that was introduced was likely to have changed the verdict.

            More than 10 years after the murders and after numerous attempts – all of which failed at the first hurdle – some of the bigger pieces of evidence were destroyed. Apparently some also went missing, pointing to poor record-keeping, but you can hardly blame the police for thinking that this one was in the bag. It actually played into Karam’s hands that the evidence was destroyed or missing, He said it would have proved Bain innocent (bullshit) and he then lined up a whole lot of “experts” to review pictures and descriptions of key pieces of evidence. They managed to cast just enough doubt into the minds of gullible jurors who fell for the sob story and overturned 5 murder convictions – quite wrongly in my view.

          • fozzie2

            Bunsy I an many others have follow this case closely too – so cut your ‘ I know better than you do’ attitude, it doesn’t bode well for your argument. Calling people ‘idiots’ just because you don’t like their decisions id hardly recommendation for condemnation. it was clear this case was not going away, and probably headed for the Privy Council, so it woulds be been hoven on the police, courts, and who ever in charge to preserve the evidence. The fact it was destroyed by the police says more about their need to cover up that any subsequent review.

            I am sure you and anyone on this this would not want to be the victim of poor Police record keeping, and no the Police knew and had no reason to believe this one was ‘in the bag.’ !!

          • Bunswalla

            Firstly, you don’t get to call me Bunsy.
            Secondly, I suppose you think that if someone has appealed 127 times and been laughed out of court, the appeals process is “still in play”? Sorry if this offends you and your mate Phil Goff, but in that case you are an idiot.

            How long do you think the police should keep evidence relating to every case that they investigate?

            10 years is obviously WAY too soon, so what is then – 20 years? 30, 40, 50 years? 100? Where do you propose they store, categorise and maintain all this stuff? Or have you been watching too many Cold Case episodes and in your fantasy world you’re waiting for the magic bullet to exculpate your hero?

            When will you stop seeing conspiracy theories that “prove” poor David Bain has been fitted up by his evil father and the dastardly “filth”?

            Were you frightened by a Policeman as a child?

            When will you acknowledge that if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and murders all its family, it’s probably a duck?

          • fozzie2

            Bunsy mate – you are full brim and bluster. In this case the police stuffed up – be good they could own up, and admit so, but sadly not. It was clear this case was going to go further, and as you have suggested earlier, if the forensics was so important to the case. Ah the old ‘duck’ argument – think that was used in the 16th century to convict and burn witches.

        • Travis Poulson

          You mentioned innocent, David Bain hasn’t been proven innocent. Significantly different from being found not guilty.

  • MrAuz1989

    I hear some people state that the angle of the lines is due to compression of the flesh at the time of imprint. However, wouldn’t that be true of all of flesh in all the samples? I didn’t see the item in question so perhaps someone can advise why impressions from the side of Robin’s thumb are being compared against a gallery of impressions on the underside of the thumb. Wouldn’t shots of the side of the other thumbs give a useful

    • Bunswalla

      The angle of the lines is due to them being unconnected in any way, and even less connected to the Bain murders.

      The explanation of the fact that the lines are not parallel due to compression of the flesh is due to increasing desperation by Karam/Bain Inc to use the court of public opinion to force Crusher to open the kitty and empty the contents into their greedy hands.

      Unfortunately there are almost enough idiots, conspiracy theorists, police haters and all round fucktards (yes, you David Fisher and TV3) to just about shift public opinion. Almost, but not quite.

  • unsol

    All I see is a rather ugly looking thumb & ink – since when is magazine residue blue?

  • Bunswalla

    I’ve been saying this exact thing since Wednesday night – a 3rd-former can see the lines are not parallel. They don’t even look similar – one is deeper and almost certainly a cut of some sort.. The other looks older and not at the same depth.

    PS: love the EXCLUSIVE headlines – nice piss-take of the sensationalist MSM.

    • Travis Poulson

      The evidence is as empty as Russell Normans head.

  • Euan Ross-Taylor

    What I would like to know is where was Mr Bain at the time of the Crew murders?

    • On the grassy knoll

    • IWantToBeLikeMallardOneDay

      Do you mean the Kahui murders? He did that too…

  • Not a single one of Karam’s little helpers have the marks int he exact same place as Robin bain…sure they have marks…but not in the same place…in fact in quite different places. Either Robin Bain was a goober and awkward…unlikely since he was an accomplished guitarist or Joe Karam and the gullible idiots who think a tv programme can prove conclusive evidence are simple deluded fools.

  • Travis Poulson

    As I pointed out to Cam last night, someone of Robin Bain’s age wouldn’t have the skin of a 10 year old boy, from personal experience the edges of the magazine of a .22 calibre rifle would not cut the finger of anyone, let alone Robin Bain’s leathery old hands.

    This being submitted as evidence is simply a crock of shit. Having said that, I do find it amusing with all those commenting, including those in the media, with absolutely NO EXPERIENCE in firearms making a judgement based on the photographic evidence submitted that this evidence is a game changer based on the fact that a magazine in an upright position on its narrowest side was photographed next to Robins hand with a cut and another line that weren’t even parallell.

    I bloody hate having to say this, but Leighton Smith and Larry Williams, you’ve both disappointed me.

    • ThievingBastards

      I could not put it better if I tried, well said.

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