Not for profit in education?

I assume that Dave Kennedy and these others in this rogues gallery accept the barest salary as morally it would go against the grain for them to profit from educating children.

Back row L to R: Vicki Signal, Louise Green, Manu Pohatu, Fiona Matapo, Liam Rutherford, Rikki Sheterline, July McLean, Te Aroha Hiko Front row L to R: Lynda Stuart, Virginia Stark, Frances Guy, Judith Nowotarski, Ian Leckie, David Kennedy

Back row L to R: Vicki Signal, Louise Green, Manu Pohatu, Fiona Matapo, Liam Rutherford, Rikki Sheterline, July McLean, Te Aroha Hiko
Front row L to R: Lynda Stuart, Virginia Stark, Frances Guy, Judith Nowotarski, Ian Leckie, David Kennedy

 


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  • Sym Gardiner

    Might be a bit harsh. Louise Green is my child’s principal. She is first class. I disagree with her politics but she runs a very good school.

    • Peej

      This is not about Louise Green. This is just another puerile, derisory attack on teachers. It’s simply sport. Like attacking John Key dealing with communist China and someone calling him a hypocrite.

      • LabTested

        Say what???

      • johnbronkhorst

        Read a few things Leckie has said and you will see how divisive and corrosive this group are.

        • Bunswalla

          Ian Leckie’s an arrogant patronising dickhead of the first order.

  • Random66

    I’m not sure a teacher being paid a fair wage for a service provided can really be called profiteering. What value do you put on the ability for someone to successfully pass needed information onto your child? To be clear I’ve got no time for bad teachers (and they should be paid accordingly), but I’ve always appreciated a great one when they have come our children’s way and I still remember the teacher who made the greatest impact on me. You know a teacher is doing their job right when it is the student that is profiting.

    • johnbronkhorst

      True..but while YOU appreciate the good ones (as do I) If you don’t attack and get rid of the bad ones. Their union supports them and keeps them in a job (no matter what you and I say) and by their silence the good ones support their union and the therefore the bad teachers.
      For evil to exist, it only takes a few good men to do NOTHING!!!

      • Random66

        Agree John.

      • GazzW

        John, to a very large extent I agree with you, however, I do have experience via two family members, both of whom are young teachers working in state schools one of which is integrated. Neither belong to unions as do any of their younger colleagues. One of them in fact works at a school that has no union members at all. I think that this trend will see the end of unionisation in the education system as older teachers retire or fall out of the system because they just cannot cope with increasing demands on them. By and large the modern young graduate teacher is accepting of NS, open to charter schools and would die for performance pay. They work hard in term time (55-60 hours is the norm) and effectively only take about 50% of their holidays.

        The changes for the better are already happening. What we need is more good young graduates entering teaching and the unions will die a natural death just as they have done in other areas of commerce.

        • johnbronkhorst

          Are we relying on you to breed and bring up the next generation of teachers? Or should we find and STOMP on the bad ones now?
          Weed the garden, so vegetables can actually grow!
          No connotations around the word vegetable , intended.

          • GazzW

            John, if you can advise young teachers in a union-dominated school how to STOMP on the bad teachers without totally fucking their careers then you’re one smart person. Take a typical young teacher’s personal situation – low pay for a grad, student loan to repay, possibly in a relationship or mortgage to repay. In practical terms they can do nothing.

            It’s over to society as a whole to get rid of this scourge.

          • johnbronkhorst

            Not these young fellas’ job. It is the principles job. The boards job. The ministries job.
            People in positions of power should NOT be foisting their responsibilities onto the juniors, apprentices or newbe’s…what ever you want to call them!

    • James

      I’m not sure a company being paid a fair income for a service provided can really be called profiteering. What value do you put on the ability for an organisation to successfully pass need information onto your child.

      • Random66

        Not sure where you are going with that comment. Our children have, or still are, attending a private school – so clearly I have no problem with investing in good education.

        • James

          The point is that teachers and teacher unions are forever complain about allowing businesses to profit from education when they themselves profit from education. And then people say that it is OK for teachers to profit – I was just pointing out that it is pretty much exactly the same argument to say that businesses should be able to do so too.

    • Bunswalla

      If I can be so bold as to interpret the point of the post and the headline, WO is connecting the dots between the following:

      1. Teachers’ unions are strongly opposed to charter schools. We can apply many reasons to this but one of the chief ones they trot out is that charter schools can be run by private organisations.

      2. Private organisations seek to make a profit.

      3. And, profit is evil.

      4. Teachers’ unions like to portray teaching as a noble calling, unsullied by material motives and with only the welfare and well-being of the children at their heart.

      5. People who volunteer their time for other such noble causes e.g. Volunteer Service Abroad, service missions to poor countries in the Pacific Islands and Africa, for example, do not get paid other than a subsistence wage and their expenses.

      6. For Teachers’ unions to seek higher salaries and essentially, take money from the education budget and put it in their own pockets, when it could go to improving the lot of their charges, is perhaps a bit hypocritical.

      Not saying I agree with all of the above, but I think that’s what it all means.

      • Random66

        Okay, bold is good. Sometimes I don’t see the forest for the trees.

    • IWantToBeLikeMallardOneDay

      They get far more than a fair wage. I teach in China for half of what they get and my classes have 50+ students in them who study on an average of 10 hours per day, seven days per week. They are the priests of secular society. They baffle people with their bullshit.

      • Random66

        Well aren’t you a surprise, for some reason I have trouble imagining you as a teacher in China. You should come back here and get paid twice the wage for half the work like your NZ counterparts.

        • IWantToBeLikeMallardOneDay

          Really? Why do I not fit the mould? I’m guessing because I’m not a butt-ugly social misfit with misguided ideas from a bygone era like the people in that photo. Maybe because I spell en masse “en masse” instead of “on mass”.
          My Chinese is progressing terribly, so maybe I will be forced to eventually and NZ can boast of having China’s leftovers :-)
          This guy I went to uni with had all of his essays written for him by someone else and on the one occasion when he was left to write one himself, he got something like 35% in his final year in political science of all courses! How you fail a pols course is beyond me! He’s now in the top teacher salary bracket because the management at the school couldn’t distinguish between students whose parents write their essays for them and students who can do it themselves. There are tonnes of graduates in many fields like this. Accounting and finance, so many sectors. In the past, most students had to do it themselves because their parents couldn’t, now it’s the other way round. Frankly, the entrenched flunkies want thick people working in education. This is something no-one discusses which is unfortunate considering that the installed plonkers who make up the bulk of so-called education professionals are precisely the types who function as the enablers of the status-quo nuttiness that comes out of the education system. It is easy for this mob of bolshy uglies to browbeat the other knuckledraggers in their field if the latter lack the ability to critically analyse the nonsense put out by such a crowd. It has the analogous function of a public sector union and it’s all too common practice in any Labour dominated sector of the economy. There are decent people in education, but most of them are prize mallardesque plonkers and self-righteous group thinking solipsistic bludgers. Time for a beer! :-)

  • opusx

    Teachers are normally pretty intelligent people with a fair degree of common sense. A ton of them left state schools, trained and then became Govt employees. It is fair to say a lot of them have no idea of the ‘real’ world. Their incomes are guaranteed, they have rock solid job security. And that is all fine and good until you realise their union supports the crap, lazy, complacent ones. How is that helpful to anyone?

    • johnbronkhorst

      “Teachers are normally pretty intelligent people with a fair degree of common sense”
      Not so as I have noticed, maybe those are the quiet ones that never get on TV?

      • opusx

        Yep, the ones that get on with the job of teaching kids ahead of all other considerations, like politics and self preservation. One’s like my wife ;-)

        • Euan Ross-Taylor

          Does your wife know what you are up to (agree with) while she is at work?

          • opusx

            Yep. I’m an ex cop..so you could say we gave both had our fair share of being told how and what to think.

          • Euan Ross-Taylor

            You seem an open honest commenter. I follow and appreciate your posts.

          • opusx

            Cheers. A bit like Cam and the majority of other posters on his blog, it’s good to see a voice of common sense. All but gone in main stream media

        • James

          My wife is the same – in the UK she felt like she had to join a union (her teaching college pretty much said – these are the 3 unions; you should decide which one to join). She decided to join the least militant of them – one which had a no-striking policy.
          She’s had some time off with the kids but has started volunteering at a school to get her experience up – as she didn’t feel she could start off at her best going back in “cold”. From the volunteering and observing of lessons she is pretty shocked at just how many terrible teachers there are out there – ones who don’t seem to give a shit about doing the job that they are paid to do. There are some good ones too – but the bad ones should have been out on their arses years ago according to her but appear to be completely protected (Head of Department knows who they are but can’t do anything about them … he even said that he hoped having somebody observing them would get them to prepare for the lessons).

          She is hoping to get a full-time job next year … which would be far easier to do if they were able to clear the crap teachers away to replace them with teachers who actually care.

  • Patrick

    The majority of the rogues gallery look to be pretty well fed, could they be getting first dibs at the food in schools contents?

    • tarkwin

      The woman on the far right closely resembles face of the day.

  • rockape

    Lets try an be honest here. Teachers are like most of us Mother Tereasa excepted. We are out to do the best for our family and ourselves. Teachers have a strong union and use it for the advantage of the teachers. They have the strike equivallent of the Nuclear Bomb. They can use our kids and their education to force their views. So Teachers cut to the chase longer holidays, shorter hours and more pay are to benefit YOU, not your puplils Stop using kids and blackmailing parents for your own interest. Would you be happy that nurses and doctors use the health of your kids to blackmail you.

    • Bunswalla

      Don’t get me started on Mother Teresa – a cause of enormous human suffering (contrary to most people’s view of her) through her ruthless advocacy against the use of condoms in areas where over-population and AIDS were rife.

      • tarkwin

        I never realised that.

        • rockape

          Well she was Nun!

          • tarkwin

            True. I was taught by The Sisters of Mercy at primary school. Whoever named them had a strange sense of humour.

  • mad butcher

    looks like the ladies have been having pie eating competitions

  • IWantToBeLikeMallardOneDay

    They must have a combined age of 2000!

  • IWantToBeLikeMallardOneDay

    Actually some of them have a bit of a glassy-eyed look to them like they’ve just been let out of the sanatorium. July McLean and Frances Guy may have early on said that the policies they’re arguing for are ridiculous so they were sent to the gulag by some pushy large woman who, every time she walked into the cafeteria would cause the conversation to cease immediately on the chance that she might choose to take umbrage at the most nebulous claim possibly of some kind of assault upon the sensibilities of a minority group of some description. Seriously, how could anyone worth employing as an educator be able to stand working with these kinds of nutters, and why would anyone let this crowd near their kids? I would call the police.

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