Sunday General Debate

via 3news

via 3news

An 18-month-old boy has died after being run over in an Auckland driveway [late yesterday].

The child was initially taken to hospital in a critical condition where he later died of his injuries.

Emergency services were called to a home in Otahuhu, South Auckland at 2.20pm.

Police said they were still working to find out how the accident happened.

With at least 24 children killed in the last six years New Zealand is the worst country in the world for toddler driveway deaths.

Why are toddlers not being run over in Remuera driveways?

Discuss.

 


THANK YOU for being a subscriber. Because of you Whaleoil is going from strength to strength. It is a little known fact that Whaleoil subscribers are better in bed, good looking and highly intelligent. Sometimes all at once! Please Click Here Now to subscribe to an ad-free Whaleoil.

  • rockape

    There are less realy dumb people living in Remarua, and they care more for their kids, just a suggestion!

    • Bob Murphy

      REMUERA!!!

    • peterwn

      Possibly, Remuera driveways are more likely to have turning space and which is not clogged by extra cars.

      Some years ago a Power Board wanted to put a transformer box on a berm and the nearby householder objected as it would block sight when using the driveway. The Council traffic engineer had a look and said there was no problem. The drive had a turning area and there was no problem going out front first. However there was usually two cars on the property so they usually backed down the driveway and had a visibility problem.

      Backing down driveways and toddlers are a lethal combination.

  • Pete George

    The GCSB Amendment Bill will be reported back to Parliament next week. There is pressure on Government to address widespread concerns. They have already indicated they will make some changes.

    In the meantime a week of protest is planned – COALITION TO STOP THE GCSB BILL – URGENT PUBLIC MEETING on Thursday at Mt Albert War Memorial Hall in Auckland, and protests planned around the country on Saturday.

    What if the Government adequately address the biggest concerns and the bill is an improvement on what we have now, with a promise to review our spying regularly?

    I expect the protests will continue regardless, there is politics involved – for example Martyn Mana Bradbury is MCing the Auckland protest and Global Peace and Justice Auckland (socialist group) is promoting it. Government will have to get their message out strongly and clearly, if they don’t have anything to hide.

    • Muffin

      Doesn’t Martin B work for the mana party?

      • Pete George

        Yes. I’m interested to see who is driving these protests.

        “You simply can not as NZers allow ANY Government this level of control over their citizens. Brothers and sisters, this isn’t a left wing, or right issue, it’s a NZ issue and we must come together with one voice and say – no!

        “This law represents the largest erosion of civil liberties since the
        1951 Waterfront lockout – if you’re not angry yet, you’re not paying
        attention. ”

        That’s Bradbury, but it could just as easily be Socialist Aotearoa and affiliated groups.

        • johnbronkhorst

          “This law represents the largest erosion of civil liberties since the
          1951 Waterfront lockout – if you’re not angry yet, you’re not paying attention. ”
          and I would challenge that statement with…….The Electoral Finance Act…that removed peoples right of free speech at the time of an election, when it is most important they be heard!!!

          • Polish Pride

            Lets fix the entire statement then.

            “This law represents the largest erosion of civil liberties in New Zealand ever.

          • rockape

            No this law is fixing a flawed law that was written badly by the last Government and used by the very people now in opposition doing all the complaining to do exactly what they are worried this Government ‘May “do.

        • cows4me

          Why are you socialist if you fear government overreach, seems to me to be a very responsible concern.

          • Pete George

            It’s not socialist wanting to limit Government overreach, and the left seem more intent on limiting than the right. Good on them.

            But it looks like there are two separate things at play. The Stop the GSCB campaign has similar signatures to Occupy – socialists hijacking a valid issue to promote their own anti-Government, pro-socialist pro-Mana agenda.

      • Pete George

        I asked questions on Stop the GCSB Bill on Facebook and got a response from Marty:
        “Pete George you are a right wing troll who always slavishly worships the increase of state power – the less you have to do with the debate – the better for NZ”

        So it looks like a political campaign disguised as a “spontaneous” protest.

    • I bet less than 200 people turn up

      • Sir Cullen’s Sidekick

        You missed two more zeros at the end Whaleoil….

        • motorizer

          he was referring to the “wide angle” shot. not the close up on loop.

        • Dave

          Here we are SCS, fixed that for you 200.00 The .00 is for the one month old baby the news will no doubt add to their total.

      • Liberty

        If anyone working in one of the building and has good aerial view of the protest. Please take a photo and send to Whaleoil

      • cows4me

        Because most have “nothing to hide” and couldn’t give a fat rats arse, no doubt they will one day.

        • Mediaan

          I believe one of the people on that list of about 82 who are under surveillance by the GCSB includes one person who is a former unconsenting victim of secret military experiments by foreign entities. Clearly, nothing to hide. But the people who did it have, and are in a position to call for protected operations.

      • Kimbo

        …and I add to that bet by saying it will be the “usual suspects”, with that loathesome American who is somehow sucking on the public tit as National Librarian who was arrested in the Urewera raid at the forefront…

    • Liberty

      What ” widespread concerns”?

      A few deluded pinkos gushing crocodile tears over loss liberties. What a lot of
      hogwash.
      Where were all these concerned people during the reign of Clark.
      Around 80 people were spied on. Imprisonment for sedition. Dawn raids. While the spineless pinko media hid under a rock too gutless to take on Clark. evil times. Thank god those days are over.

      • Polish Pride

        When will you finally wake up to the fact that it is not about Left Vs Right nor is it about Socialist vs Capitalist.

        It is about the Government vs the People.

        The people that it is supposed to work for in what is supposed to be democracy and this bill has no place in a democracy. It is the sort of thing one expect to see in a Dictatorship.

        • Liberty

          It has everything to do with the left as we basically don’t
          have any right wing mainstream media.
          Apart from some informed blogs.
          Would you like to explain what happen to media. When the
          Clark administration imprisoned that chap for sedition.
          If I recall he was one of their own. A pinko. He must of really
          pissed her off.
          What happen to the media. When The Clark administration retrospectively legalized the stealing of the $800,000 more importantly. Stopped the Darnton v Clark case that should have been decided by the court. Not by some dictatorial leader.
          In both case the media was inept. If a National government had been so dictatorial the media would have gone ballistic.

          • Polish Pride

            “It has everything to do with the left as we basically don’t
            have any right wing mainstream media.”

            fox news

            Would you like to explain what happen to media. When the
            Clark administration imprisoned that chap for sedition.
            If I recall he was one of their own. A pinko. He must of really
            pissed her off.

            Prime example of us vs them not L vs R. All govts will take liberties with your liberty given half a chance. Just Like National is doing right now.

            What happen to the media. When The Clark administration retrospectively legalized the stealing of the $800,000 more importantly. Stopped the Darnton v Clark case that should have been decided by the court.

            another prime example of us vs them by holding them to account to have one law for all.
            Problem is people focus on L and R depending on their political persuasion. When their preferred Govt. is in power They will let all sorts of things slide rather than holding them to account as needs to be done for any govt in a democracy.
            Both Left and Right are about wealth redistribution. They just do it in different ways and have different targets for it. But both are about taking money from one group and giving it too another. While this continues we will simply shift a few degrees to the left or the right every three years. Nothing much will change except for the erosion of our civil liberties by both left AND right govts. You only need to go back about 12 years in history of NZ politics to see this in action. It’s right there it just depends on whether you are prepared to have your illusions shattered once you see things as they actually are .

        • BR

          It is about big, bloated, high taxing expensive nannying government (socialism) vs small low taxing self sufficiency promoting government (free market friendly).

          So it damn well is left vs right.

          Bill.

          • Polish Pride

            Bill Both Left and Right are about wealth redistribution, they just have different methods of doing it and different targets for it but both are about changing policy to favour particular pet groups in society.

            Both Left vs Right govts will also try to take away civil liberties if given half the chance. You only need to look back 12 years in NZ history to see this.

            L vs R is an illusion. But it’s an illusion they are more than happy to keep you focused on because that way you will blame whichever side you don’t subscribe to rather than actually holding govt to account as they should be.

            Since we last spoke I learnt a lot more about libertarianism and found that apart from Capitalism our views are not that far apart. I didn’t realize how similar until I watched this. Unfortunately It is long, but very interesting.

  • Harroputza

    Is the typical driveway layout of a state house running the length of the property on one side? So the car passes through the back yard and the front yard, and the path from the door is directed towards the driveway.

    Plus I never see toys strewn across the back yard in Remmers, but I always see it in Otahuhu or Mangere.

    • Dave

      I had such a driveway but didn’t run any kids over, always cleaned up the toys, kids knew it was their job to clean up or they were taken away for a few days, mean parent but it works. Then that old thing called Parental Responsibility kicks in, checking where all the whakapapa are and in some cases moving them inside or in front of the car where they can be seen.

      Same applies to visitors, the parents keep the children under control while the visitor reverses out.

      As a suggestion, I recently fitted a reverse Camera and monitor to the Van, cost less than $100 over the net, it’s almost impossible to see its there, and I can see everything in my path. Can even back to within an inch or so of a wall etc the vision is so good, and the distance grid helps. Highly reccomend them.

  • Tom Sawyer

    The reason why kids are run over in Flaxmere and South Auckland etc is because they tend to have heaps of kids in each house and in Remuera they have just one or two.

    • IWantToBeLikeMallardOneDay

      The people in Remuera are too old and crusty to spawn. Their insides are all decrepit and dried up.

  • manuka416

    Do they allow kids in Remuera?!

    • GazzW

      Only if they are polished daily.

  • Pissedoffyouth

    A good Remmers kid would never be outside to begin with, they have too much violin to practice

    • IWantToBeLikeMallardOneDay

      His one hundred year old dad and Thai mail order mum would be too terrified of paedophiles to let him out.

  • Blue Tim

    I thought it was because mummy doesn’t let Tarquin or Rosebud outside

    • Peej

      That is totally wrong. They go out quite often thank you. With the nanny.

  • manuka416

    What do South Auckland and Remuera have in common? Kids aren’t a priority in either ;)

  • rockape

    Why are Greens ,the New Commmunists.
    Communism has failed in East Europe and is hardly a raging success in China and North Korea. Compared to Capitalism which has survived evr since one caveman swapped a peice of meat and thought he got a good deal, communism had a very short lifespan. But why do I compare them to the Greens? Well, they both hate the individual and love government. They both despise enterprise and love state control.The greens dont realise that capitalists are what has driven the World forward,the TV series,The men that built America, is a good indication of this. There reson for hating capitalists is that they hate progress and blame it for the consumption of World resourses. What they dont realize is that capitalism has always succeeded where it has filled the need of mankind. The UK,France and Spain were running out of trees until until someone invented Iron and later steel ships. The material to build these what brought by capitalists in the railways to ports by trains fired by coal,they save the forests of southern England. Trees for fuel, was replaced by coal, replaced by oil and then Nuclear energy(much underused) all brought about by individuals wanting to make a dollar. As these resources appear to be less available , those clever old capitalists go out and find a new way to harvest them deeper, or come up with a totally new source. Can we survive without coal. well we did a few hundred years ago, can we survive without oil, we did 150 years ago, electricity,100 years ago. But their is no sign of us running out of these specific energy sources anytime soon and less chance of us running out of energy.But we are threatened by the GREENS THAT DISASTER IS JUST ROUND THE CORNER. Well a few degrees in temperature doesnt frighten me, I put my faith in man. I have spent time ,40+ days at -25 thanks to my man made thermal clothes,by high octane helicopter fuel for my cooking stove and my high energy food. A year before that I was in the desert, protected by my sunscreen and sleeping well thanks to the airconditioning in my tin hut.
    Each and everyone of you can walk through your house and see how each and every item that you bought, that was made, sold and fitted to your house that makes your life better. From the light you turn on ,to he heat that keeps you alive to the computer you sit at to get on the internet, to complain about the nasty capitalist who sold you it all.
    So my message to all you greenies out there-F89k off!

    • Hazards001

      Excellent comment.

  • opusx

    This is what happens when you give chimpanzees drivers licences.

    • GazzW

      Your point being opusx? Expand a little.

      • opusx

        Responsible, prudent drivers are normally a lot less careless. Our driver licencing leaves a lot to be desired. Seems any ‘chump’ can get a licence with there being the necessity mainly for knowledge of the road code, rather than education on safe driving practices.

        • rockape

          apologies for the down vote in that case.

          • opusx

            Down votes don’t worry me bud, but reading my post back it doesn’t read that good does it?

  • Euan Ross-Taylor

    Wait up a minute here. This is just like the MSM reporting: Are there any facts to go with the innuendo that poorer families have a greater rate of driveway deaths? I know of one such death and it was really sad, and was not a low socioeconomic family. I say not cool and smells a bit like the Trayvon Martin beatup.

    • Cadwallader

      My last couple of cars have had parking-radar as standard features. Try as I might not to, I have become totally reliant on the radar. Perhaps in South Auckland, given the likelihood of an aged car-fleet the radars are less common than in Remuera. The radar is a genuine safety device without doubt as it is sensitive enough to sound off when a few leaves are gusted up my driveway so I do not doubt that it would detect a child no matter how young and small.

      • rockape

        rich prick!

        • James

          We had them fitted on our last car for $75 with a Grab One deal. That is a couple of KFC feeds for the Whanau.

        • Cadwallader

          …and lovin’ it!!! The trick is to live away from AKL thereby saving $$$$ on housing, then you can have all the European cars your heart may desire. (Though it is about time I acted my age.)

          • rockape

            Yes I guess 3 bed in Nelson + a ferrari versus 3 bed in South Auckland and a ten year old nissan for the same money is a lifestyle choice. Kind of why I moved from Uk to Nelson!

  • motorizer

    i know its an old subject but i was talking about retirement to an older dude the other day and i was informing him of labour wanting to put it up and it dawned on my the hypocrite of “labour” for the workers rights want to squeeze a bit more out of them. that just goes to prove how labour has become something else.

    • rockape

      Yes those same ones who want to put the pension age up are the ones who were suggesting not so long ago that we should retire early to allow young people to have the jobs. Maybe they want us to retire at 60, start a new career in begging on the street until they pay us the pension at 67.

      • rockape

        Why should I care, I am 66 and growing old faster than hey can put the pension up!

      • motorizer

        good point. nothing wrong with YOUR memory.

  • PlanetOrphan
    • Orange

      How can you be off topic in a general debate thread?

      • PlanetOrphan

        Thanks bud :-) , not driveway death related and I put in a link, without a debate topic.

    • But weren’t the moon landings faked?

      • PlanetOrphan

        Not when you see the Hubble “tracks of the moon buggy”, and the above pics would pass any scrutiny.

      • Hazards001

        Naw…the fluttering flag is a figment of your imagination. Everyone knows the foot prints on the moon will last forever as there is no atmosphere therefore no wind to erase them. The flag isn’t flying in the breeze….it’s just….errr….well……

    • Travis Poulson

      How is it off topic when the topic is general debate

      • PlanetOrphan

        Thanks Travis :-) , see below , I wont be so shy next time.

  • Mediaan

    You have to fence swimming pools, but not the roads and driveways.

    • Peej

      We have to fence off our remote pool in our remote location in case the kids without the remotest possibility of ending up here, fall in and drown.

      And areas where it’s not remotely possible that there be no kids around and with frequent and varied dangers, have no community directives.

  • rockape

    A quote from George Reisman
    “The great majority of intelectuals,and of the public too,which has been subjected to the education system fashioned by them,continues to believe such thingsas the profit motive is the cause of starvation wages,exhausting hours,sweatshops,and child labour;and of monopolies,inflation,depressions,wars,imperialism and racism. At the same time they believe that saving is hoarding and a cause of unemployment and depressions,as is alledgedly,economic progress in the form of improvements in efficiency. And, by the same logic,war and destructionas necessary to prevent unemployment under capitalism. In addition,they believe that money is the root of all evil and that competition, is the law of the Jungle and the survival of the fittest. Economic inequality,they believe, proves that succesful businessmen and capitalists play the same role in capitalism, as did slave owners and feudal aristocrats in earlier times and is thus the logic and basis for “class warfare” end quote.
    This explains the socialists and the Greens who can only survive in this state of Class Warfare. By constantly feeding this and promoting it through invented publicity stunts they maintain the mythe. They can only survive if the appearance of conflict is maintained. Its out-of-date thinking and quite frankly depressing. As most of us enjoy our lives and the benefits of what capitalism has brought, they have to wallow in their sesspool of self flagilation and deression. Why do you think the Greens and socialists constantly attack the society we have.

    • Kimbo

      Yep. Left politics have kept more people poor by encouraging them to “blame the system”, rather than exercising the precious human gifts of a capacity for hope and initiative, than any evil robber-baron.

      • rockape

        North Korea, I say no more!

    • opusx

      So true, I don’t have much (in the big scheme of things), but I am thankful for what I do have. I never begrudge those who have more and obtained such by hard work or honest means. In fact I applaud them for it, especially if they took risks to get there. I don’t look at others with envy, but sometimes in admiration. And I most certainly do not subscribe to the entitlement mentality, as that benefits no one in the long term, least of the all the ones holding out their hands (hang on a minute, yes it does!).

  • James

    Until the law is changed to make people reverse INTO driveways rather than out of them then kids will continue to be run over. Reversing into the driveway requires you to drive past the driveway and so can see down it to check that it, and the footpath, is clear before you reverse. Then coming out you are looking forward so are much less likely to hit a child.

    All it needs is a simple rule that states that you may not reverse from a minor road onto a more major road.

    • Travis Poulson

      How about we stop making society controlling rules and laws and people just use their bloody common sense and brains for once. It’s the same as all this bullshit health and safety rules and regulations brought in the last 10 – 15 years, NOTHING is a substitute for common sense. You merely remove the ability for people to think for themselves. Life is tough, people die. Reversing into driveways, good grief that is ridiculous. That’ll work great on our busy road, stop in the lane in busy traffic, cause a holdup or accident and reversing down a 50 metre shared driveway.

      • James

        I do exactly that, pull over, stop and wait for a gap to reverse in. Far safer than trying to reverse out, almost blind, into a busy highway.

        And it isn’t about controlling rules etc, it is about looking at what the current highway rules allow and whether there are any minor amendments that could be used to fix areas where the rules make people less safe.

        Other rules that I would change are to raise the speed limits to 130kmph on dual carriageway with a barrier between cars travelling in different directions, and to allow free left turns when at red lights on traffic light controlled junctions. This is because neither of these would make the roads significantly more dangerous compared to the benefits.

    • Rodger T

      So what happens when people start killing kids by backing into driveways?
      Time for another Law?

      • James

        When you back into a driveway you have got to, as part of the manoeuvre, drive past the driveway and so can look down it to see if it is clear; some people won’t but most will. This is what makes it safer to back in and drive out.

        This used to be the law in the UK (no reversing from minor road to more major one) but I think it was downgraded to an advisory rather than legal obligation.

  • Jimmie

    Opps – in goes the next knife – spring is warming up

    http://thestandard.org.nz/on-the-labour-leadership/#comment-665813

    • GazzW

      That’s the first time I have looked at the Stranded for months Jimmie. Wow, they are a divided & desperate lot. Interesting that amongst all that anti-Shearer vitriol there’s no mention of who could replace him. Will the ABS clique replace the ABC clique?

  • BR

    I know! lets make a law to force homeowners to fence every driveway! Hell, if it’s good enough for swimming pools….

    Bill.

38%