Welfare reforms kick in today, Herald starts campaign on behalf of losers

The governments welfare reforms kick in today.

Thousands of people are expected to be chopped off welfare benefits as sweeping changes in the social security system come into force today.

The reforms represent the biggest upheaval in the welfare state since the Social Security Act was passed by the first Labour Government in 1938.

All sickness beneficiaries, and sole parents and widows with no children under 14, are now subject to the same requirement to look for fulltime work as other jobless people, although sickness may be accepted as a valid reason to postpone work temporarily.

Other new obligations include drug-testing for jobseekers in relevant industries, which is expected to trigger benefit cuts for up to 5800 people, and a requirement for beneficiaries to clear outstanding arrest warrants.

About 8000 beneficiaries have arrest warrants outstanding for issues such as unpaid fines. Unless they clear them within 38 days, their benefits will be halved if they have children, or stopped completely if they don’t, in what is likely to be the biggest single purge of the benefit rolls since the system was created.  

As is usual from the Herald they have rounded up carious handwringers to wail about the changes. You know when Simon Collins writes an article that it will contain several losers crying a river of tears.

The co-ordinator of the Pikorua Community House in a low-income part of Papakura, Michelle Neho, said many people with outstanding warrants would go back to drug-dealing rather than pay their fines.

Oh right, so we shouldn’t try and reform welfare because some drop kicks might go back to drug-dealing?

Herald investigation into how the changes will affect people’s lives in Papakura, as a case study of a high-welfare area, has found widespread fear of the reforms even among those who are supposed to be exempted from the work-search requirements.

“A lot of people are scared about the warrants to arrest,” Ms Neho said. “There’s a lot of people that have thousands of dollars of fines outstanding.” Some would rather come off the benefit than pay all their fines.

They are bludgers, a cancer on society. They owe fines, have warrants for arrest and this drop-kick wants to cuddle the scum that are feeding off the welfare state. It is good that they are scared of warrants to arrest. Best they get it sorted out then.

 


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  • Middleagedwhiteguy

    The issue shouldn’t be why are beneficiaries required to ensure they are looking for work, have their children enrolled in school, have medical care for their children, be drug free and not have outstanding fines or warrants, but why they have not been required to do so before now.

    Sometimes a bit of tough love is required.

    I will never forget getting dressed for work and my then 5 year old son was watching me put my tie on, and he asked if he would have to go to work when he gets older. I told him “Of course, that’s what we do.”

    What do long term beneficiaries say to their children?

    • wikiriwhi

      tough love went out the door with socialism

    • Mediaan

      His future behaviour is determined by your behaviour, mostly. Example showed by parents. So, well done.

    • Justsayn

      I believe an often used phrase is “get me the bong”

      • steve and monique

        Just before, “cook some fucking eggs”

    • Hazards001

      They say “ere’s da balaclava boy”

    • IWantToBeLikeMallardOneDay

      Nothing. They are in the garage drinking bourbon rtds from a can and copulating as they start to recover from their hangover before heading out to buy another box of bourbon.

  • Euan Ross-Taylor

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10898216

    This is a second article by Collins today which I was surprised when I read it earlier as to how balanced it was, and he follows it up with this crap you refer to ?

  • wikiriwhi

    whale contradicts his post from last week where he said there’s no excuse for homeless only to talk of beneficiaries being cruelly cut off by the National socialist sterilists who a creating a huge underbelly in society with a state programme of job closures which have lasted decades and blamed on the populace which the trivialist middle class will accept without a murmur as they did with segregation, apartheid and the holocaust

    • Justsayn

      WTF! Put away the P before the P puts you away!

      I did like the use of a comma right near the end – nice touch that.

      • Bad__Cat

        Thank you for confirming that it was gibberish!
        I read it 3 times and still couldn’t get what he was saying.
        WTF sums it up beautifully.

    • Mickrodge

      Dude, did you have mushrooms from the bottom of the garden for breakfast this morning?

    • The other Neil

      what a load of rubbish. No one is suggesting that people who are in need wont be helped. All that is happening is that the first expectation is that you will attempt to help yourself, by working if you can. I work, my wife works, my whole family work, we all have children, we have limited the number of children to what we can afford. We don’t get WFF, no State housing assistance. We do get the balance of State services like everyone else such as health and education and I pay a small fortune in taxes, which I am not complaining about, just noting. Welfare is supposed to be a hand up not a hand out.

      • Meg

        Wanna make a bet?

        WINZ has been attacking the sick for sometime now. I know personally of a number of cases where people who are disabled/sick with no chance of recovering to constantly fight WINZ and prove they are still have a life long disability. This will see many many many more being denied the help they have a right to.

        • Agent BallSack

          So? I have a life long disability that affects the quality of my life and it’s not covered by ACC. To even get treatment I would have to fly to the states or Europe. Doesnt stop me working and making the best of it.

          • Meg

            And those who cannot work at all or who employers will not hire because they are disabled? Shall we punish them because you have to work and are not covered by ACC.

            Which is rather odd seeing as ACC covers almost every single thing.

          • Kendall

            Less emotion and more reason Meg, you are sounding like a broken record of hate and ‘wo is me”

          • Meg

            The truth is the truth.

            Oh and the less emotion part… spoken like a person who never has to worry about being disabled or sick.

          • Kendall

            Know your audience Meg. know your opponent before judging.

          • Meg

            I know my audience on here.

            I know them very very well.

          • Kendall

            Remove my child for a second and focus on this. I work, have from the age of 18 – yep I stayed in school. I pay tax, I have income protection, private health insurance, life insurance (just in case I drop dead [for my sons future]) and private superannuation. I donate 10% of my net profit a year and reinvest 10% into other areas. I don’t earn much in the scheme of things, but hey I do what I can. Meg go Bite me.

          • Meg

            And I do what I can for me. But by God I will still stand up and fight for those less fortunate than myself and never begrudge them the help they need.

          • Arran Hunt

            So you will fight for the drug users and those with arrest warrants? You will fight and protect them so they don’t learn? You will teach future generations that its ok to be unemployed and using drugs, and that arrest warrants are meaningless?

          • Meg

            Nope. Piss poor try at twisting my words, very typical of your type too,

          • Muffin

            Your type…. Ha
            If you really can’t work I’m sure you will continue to be cared for, if you aren’t really that sick or injured then you won’t. Sounds like fair policy to me

          • Meg

            And yet we will see more and more punished for being sick and disabled. The calling card of the National party.

          • Col

            So which party would you say would be best to vote for so all the sick and so on get a fear go?

          • Meg

            I will answer that when you correct your spelling error.

          • Col

            Sorry about that, not everyone is equal like you, but you just shoot yourself in the foot here for making that remark, everything you have been saying is Bullshit, we see your true colours now?

          • wikiriwhi

            The national Socialist Party. Vote third Party and help punish the Nat/Lab coalition

          • Col

            No twisting there, that’s what we are talking about, or are you on another planet ?

          • Meg

            Yes twisting. And you are not very good at it either.

          • IWantToBeLikeMallardOneDay

            I blame the bourgeoisie. Lets elect a bunch of ugly people to install their mates from academia into positions where they can feed from the public trough so that NZ current affairs can put out less sob stories and more interviews with Hollywood celebrities. Not sure what we’ll do when we hit the business cycle trough once again, but it sure as hell can’t be “austerity”…

          • Mediaan

            Perfect caption for a Stalinist propaganda poster.

            The fact is, however, that New Zealand is already doing a very complete job of providing for those people, financially and in many other ways.

            Your “fight” is words and rhetoric. Which, psychologically, will be some stored-up anger of your own, finding a group-approved outlet.

            Find another outlet Meg. Get rid of that anger some other way. Ít is truer and psychologically healthier. You’re basing this rhetoric on fake issues.

            Because the need you describe is not there. It’s impossible to suffer because of lack of income in New Zealand.

          • wikiriwhi

            With you all the way Meg (How come I ain’t seen you on here before?)

          • mike

            Kendall, do you by chance have a son with a very rare sickness?

          • Kendall

            Yup

          • mike

            If it’s who I think then I’ve met him… my step son spends every other weekend with him.

            He’s a little battler that’s for sure!

          • Col

            Would be a good idea to check how many people are disabled, before you go shouting and saying what you say, I would tell you but I want you to look it up and tell me how many people work who are disabled and those who are not working who are disabled, because your shooting your mouth off and saying things that are not true, get the figures and come back to me if you dare??????
            Have a great evening Meg. We all love you, as if you were not here, what would we do and say.

          • mike

            I’ve got a buggered knee from my time in the Army… one of the reasons why I left. However I still work, in fact basically do the same job as I did in the Army… I have other mates who have been shot / blown up / went down in a plane crash and they all have injuries and they all work.

            Lets face facts, there are some bludgers in the world who want nothing more than to live off the backs of us hard working tax payers.

          • Col

            It’s called survival, as we never really had any hand outs, and we live life the best we can, some days up some days down, we live with the pain, but that’s part of life.
            The trouble is we mad this happen, if we think about it, we have freedom and free speech and now free everything?

          • mike

            I’ve been a recipient of the welfare system… lost my job and spent a month of the dole as I looked for (and got) another job.

            That is what welfare should be for… not as a substitute for work but a crutch when you need it.

          • Agent BallSack

            Not genetic disorders like this

          • Kendall

            Good on you ABS – ups to you and I know (child) where you are coming from.

          • Agent BallSack

            My condolences. My illness is minor compared to what you are going through and I send my best wishes and prayers to you and your child.

          • John Q Public

            The A stands for Accident. If it’s not an accident, it’s not covered. 7 out of 10 hospitalizations are illness related, not accident. “…ACC covers almost every single thing”??? Anything else you need straightening out on?

          • mike

            Should change ACC to not cover anybody who was breaking the law when they injured themselves…

          • Mediaan

            It is not the business of the state. Ever hear of family wanting to care for a person because they love that person? It is the regular rule in most countries, brain-warped-by-socialism-Meg.

            But in many cases these people would be classified as sick, not accident-affected.

            Not that I agree with ACC — it is a disaster for New Zealand and should not exist.

        • Bad__Cat

          Meg 6 hours ago −
          “Wanna make a bet?
          WINZ has been attacking the sick for sometime now. ”

          Ah, that explains those thugs in WINZ uniforms running up the road with whips and cudgels chasing those patients in wheelchairs.

          • Meg

            They may as well do that.

        • Mediaan

          Stupid comment. What, you think they should be able to state they are disabled, and that is sufficient? Do you give out money on that basis?

          • Meg

            Prove it once. If it is proved that it is the case they will never improve, they have no need to prove they are still disabled.

        • wikiriwhi

          Meg, you can’t talk to these middle class whingers. They got no idea of the real world. maybe when road tolls come in along with still exorbitant fuel tax for unessential or non existant roading programmes they might open an eye lid. They have to be affected first

    • Agent BallSack

      Nice use of Godwins Law right at the end. You do realise Nazis were socialists, right? Like the Labour Party.

      • Mediaan

        Not sure how much their actions reflected accepted political socialism though, to be fair.

        Calling all your mates in the original street support army to a conference in a country hotel, sealing the doors, and then shooting them all dead?

        Giving massive advantages and perks to the elite?

        Promoting eugenics, hatred by race against race, and kill-offs of the retarded and elderly? Not to mention of Jews, socialists, and Gypsies of course.

        • johnbronkhorst

          Socialism is an ECONOMIC policy…read the Nazi’s economic policy. You will find many similarities. They believed in central control of the economy, mush like the Soviet’s!

          • Mediaan

            The way it operated was way beyond economic things though.

            And IMO the Nazi thing was controlled by outsiders with a different, elitist purpose. The writings were a part of the propaganda.

        • Arran Hunt

          You’ll find that National policies are the most inclusive on race. It’s the socialists who are anti-foreigners. You might have seen the Greens and NZFirst attack asians on a regular basis. You’ll also find that most races, except polynesians, vote National. The Nazis were all about government control of everything. That sounds very much like Labour/Greens. Don’t confuse a want for people to pay their own way with being racist just because it expects maori and pacific islanders to pay like everybody else.

          • Mediaan

            Arran this is so minor, the behaviour you mention, beside what Nazism did, that I don’t know where to start.

          • Arran Hunt

            You can’t ignore all of the Nazi policies in your interpretation of them just because they were genocidal. And those Nazi policies, the foundation of their movement, we identical to so many Green policies it is scary that people see Nazi’s as being right wing when, in reality, they are the exact opposite.

      • Meg

        I suggest you learn what a real socialist is.

        Because it ain’t Labour.

        • Muffin

          Only because they aren’t in power long enough to completely ruin everything. help us if they do.

          • Meg

            You are a bit mixed up. Labour Governments fix the mess, not make it. That is the job of National Governments.

          • Col

            So when Cullen said plenty of money in the bank, and he was telling porkies, who fixed it? If anyone can National can cos Labour is broke.
            Why do you think Helen and Cullen buggered off?

          • Meg

            They left because they were in charge and Labour lost under their watch. I know it is a weird thing in right wing land, but they took responsibility.

            And Cullen told no porkies… unlike all the lies National have told.

          • Col

            You must be the only one in NZ who believes that.
            Sorry to say this as I thought you knew a few thing, but you must really live in that bubble.

          • mike

            They left before they could be rolled…

          • Muffin

            I’m really not as mixed up as you, labour are so useless they come up with the the super ideas of ‘the man ban , ‘100000 houses in like 1 year’ and have DS as leader! And you think they can run a country….. Retarded

          • Meg

            Better than sell our laws kick the poor John Key is.

          • mike

            What laws has JK sold?

          • Meg

            Workers rights to WB, changed the laws to suit Sky City ignoring the social harm this will do to name 2.

          • mike

            Really? The law (ref Warner Bros) that was enacted by the Government cemented what was already common practice in NZ, that is that all actors and crew are considered independent contractors.

            The Sky City legislation is nothing new, it is essentially the same legislation that Labour passed… except this time we get a decent expo center out of it.

          • Mediaan

            You ignore the fact that National cleaned up local-based pokies a lot first, greatly reducing their number, and any consequent social harm.

            Mrs Uncontrolled Gambler is far, far more likely to have been going to the pokies round the corner than flying up to Auckland for a Sky City visit several times a week.

          • mike

            LOL

    • PlanetOrphan

      Well said bud, when these guys are getting their home burgled and cars stolen, and are paying 90% tax to tun the prison system, they’ll be whining about that too.

      Robbed at gun point at the ATM ….

      • Muffin

        Next we should be sub contracting prison services to china or Vietnam or anywhere. If we are lucky we will only get a % back

        • PlanetOrphan

          With subsidised airfares for visiting family members ….
          Relocate all the Judges to offshore sites for efficiencys’ sake ….

          Ah what the Hell let’s just join the Chinese republic, no more voting ….

          • Muffin

            Fuck that, they want to visit their offender family members they can pay full fare themselves.
            judiciary can stay here, and I think it will have the positive effect of scaring the shit out of the potential imates out there and breaking gang ties with the ones that are locked up as they are un contactable. and i bet they can do it for cents in the dollar compared to here.

          • PlanetOrphan

            So scared they eliminate all witnesses with prejudice.

          • Muffin

            That’s a long bow

          • PlanetOrphan

            It’s already happening, and will likely get worse.

  • Jman

    while Im in favor of these changes I do worry about the law of unintended consequences. Requiring the DPB bludgers to look for work when their youngest kid is 5, is just going to make them have another kid so they can sit on their asses for another 5 years, while society picks up the tab for another feral kid brought into the world for all the wrong reasons.

    • Mediaan

      Didn’t St Paula introduce financial penalties for having another baby while on the DPB for an earlier one? Hard to remember if it was merely talked about or actually enacted.

  • peterwn

    The Justice Department has a fantastic deal for beneficiary fine defaulters. All they need to do is go to Collections, say they are on a benefit and ask to see the judge. The judge will wipe the fines and impose a sentence of community work. The hourly pay-off rate is fantastic renumeration. Collections and WINZ should not try and hit them all at once – just start with the largest defaulters and work down.

    Michelle Neho does have a point but not the way she intended. The people she is thinking of probably have a nice illegal income and have a charge account at Switched On Gardners. They would merely regard the benefit as a handy income supplement.

  • Agent BallSack

    “A lot of people are scared about the warrants to arrest,” Ms Neho said. “There’s a lot of people that have thousands of dollars of fines outstanding.” Some would rather come off the benefit than pay all their fines.

    GOOD!

    • johnbronkhorst

      Don’t see a down side, do you?

      • Agent BallSack

        Is there one? Let them sell drugs become involved in turf wars and die all because they can’t get out of bed and work. Kind of sick of paying my tax to people who won’t work. There is a section of society who have no intention of ever coming off the dole and will work under the table on it. I know people who do, and they treat our tax money like its a top up.

  • Meg

    Putting aside those with fines (who should be targeted) this is one of the most disgusting things National has done and it has Paula Bennett’s finger prints all over it.

    Attacking the sick now?? There are already cases where people who have long term, unchanging disabilities/illnesses having to drag themselves into WINZ offices under threats of benefit cuts, police involvement etc all to prove that they still cannot walk, are still sick to the point of being bed ridden etc… and now this disgusting soulless National government are going to punish them even more?

    This makes me ashamed to be a kiwi if this is how our Government is going to treat the weakest in our country. We are becoming as morally bankrupt when it comes to the poor as America.

    • Kendall

      I rather look at it as not attacking the sick but attacking the fraudsters. the real sick will get looked after by the lovely people at all of the services provided by the state for the people. should no-one have to prove their need? and yes you may have to do it often, but if you read the policy there is more support and less checks on those deemed long term needs – more support for the real needy. I say good and if thats at the expense of those who do not pay their dues in society (warrants, etc) then I say YAY.

      • Meg

        And yet the fraudsters will get away and the innocent will be the ones punished. This is a disgusting anti poor anti sick/disabled National policy.

        The sooner these heartless pricks are in the dole lines themselves the better.

        • Kendall

          Meg. If people are truly needy I am sure they will not be “punished”. Give us some reasoned argument.

          • Meg

            As I have stated above I know of many people who have life long unchanging disabilities who have been made to feel like scum by WINZ and have to keep proving their disability has not magically been cured. So please do not try and tell me that WINZ will be kind with this new power.

          • Kendall

            Meg. I have a dyeing child. Should I represent his case? Yes. should I whinge and moan – no. Should I show, periodically, that his problems have not gone away? Yes. I owe that much for the benefits that he gets.

          • Meg

            If his case has been proven to be irreversible then no, you should never again be forced to prove to WINZ your child is dying. And it sickens me that they would make you do this.

          • blokeintakapuna

            Get over yourself and your faux sanctimonious outrage Meg.
            Anyone, regardless of why – if they’re receiving free, tax payer funded financial assistance will need to keep proving they need it. It’s not “punishing them” but making sure they still need it – and for that, this net tax payer is very grateful.
            Kendall best wishes to you and yours – God Bless!

          • Meg

            Yes because people who have irreversible disabilities are cured on a daily basis.

          • Kendall

            Maybe not cured, but managed to a point where they can contribute to society and feel good about themselves. I believe their are a couple on this thread at the moment who prove my point.. I wonder how may actually “want you fighting for them”.

          • Meg

            Given something as medically important as that would be in the papers I am sure until that point WINZ could use their common sense and leave those people alone.

            Perhaps they could use the free time to chase actual routers of the system as opposed to the made up ones National tells them to go after.

            Given the number of sick and disabled people National have caused to be harassed since their time in office, and the fact that we still have 1000s upon 1000s of intergenerational benefit recipients, kinda proves that National have no interest in dealing with the REAL problems in the system.

          • Kendall

            Right – getting somewhere. What are the real problems of the system – obviously in your world view? Then lets see if “we” (collective everyone), have some answers.

          • Meg

            The people who can genuinely work, yet seem to be ignored by WINZ and left to their own ways.

            How is it possible in 2013 to have intergenerational beneficiaries who have left school, gone onto the dole and been left there? And yes it happens we all know it happens.

            Why is it the focus of this Government to go after the sick and disabled and not the actual bludgers?

          • Kendall

            Sorry but i just don’t think they are going after only the sick and disabled. I believe there maybe a-lot of people on those benefits who maybe shouldn’t, and the trick is to get them off. I believe what you will find , when the changes have been imbedded that the sick and disabled who are in this category – ought to be there and those that are not will be moved to another category when they can then get managed off benefits.

            So how do we target the bludgers. Maybe make everyone accountable for their cheque. everyone, no exceptions. It is the may exceptions that have helped get us to where we are now.

          • Meg

            Where as all the evidence points to the fact they are and have been for sometime now, going after those who are in genuine need as opposed to the actual bludgers.

            The doel should be the main focus. You are on that because you are out of work, not sick, not disabled etc… out of work.

          • Kendall

            I do not disagree with the fact that the dole is a big area of concern, and yes we should target that, but also the DPB is being taken for a ride – I personally know may cases. As well as many cases where child support is obtained as well as other benefits, and times when child support – non custodial is being avoided [actively]. I just believe that you should target all areas. Once you have established those that need support you provide it, and continue to check that the level of support is correct. Sometime those on support are not getting what they should, so by making them resubmit they might actually get more. Once again I have some experience in this area. A Couple I knew where struggling, but didn’t want to go back to the government for fear (irrational by my account) that they would loose support. In fact they ended up getting more!!

          • Meg

            Yes the DPB would be my next area of focus, but I am lothed to punish the kids because of the parents.

          • mike

            Does that include all those cases of people of the sickness benefit for a “bad back” who are caught climbing ladders, doing heavy lifting etc?

          • blokeintakapuna

            “Why is it the focus of this Government to go after the sick and disabled and not the actual bludgers?”
            Comrade Auntie’s reign doctored the books with those living on Gt. Barrier Island… Overnight the place went from having many, many “unemployed” to suddenly and coincidently with changes in “categories” to having very few “unemployed” yet a huge increase of those on the “sickness benefit”

          • blokeintakapuna

            only since the world has been proven to be round and not flat…

          • Muffin

            Admittedly your stupidity seems incurable Meg

          • Mediaan

            Cured or not, that’s not the point Meg.
            Are they fraudsters? That is the point.

          • Meg

            Which is different to persecuting the sick and disabled. And given Nationals track record of doing that as opposed to actually catching the bad guys who are actually defrauding the system I have no faith that this is anything other than traditional National electioneering bash the bennies to get votes.

          • Col

            All labour did was turn the other way, they should have started helping, not just keep giving, now this is what you end up with, cheats and more cheats.

          • Agent BallSack

            Ohh they are treated like scum? How horrid. Perhaps WINZ workers see so much rorting of the system theyre sick of it? Add that to the fact that they will get censured or sacked for not performing their job properly and you may see where the case workers are coming from.

          • Meg

            There is performing your job and then there is going all Delores Umbridge on people.

        • Agent BallSack

          Yeah thats never going to happen. Most National MPs are successful in their own right and dont need the dole and wouldnt go on it.

          • Meg

            However it happens, the sooner National is gone the better.

          • Liberty

            So your paranoia has more to do with being just a
            Green/labour apologist.

          • Meg

            If that is how you prefer to refer to facts and truth so you can sleep at night, you go for it.

          • Agent BallSack

            I dont see any facts or truth, Meg. Seems like you know everything, you should run for parliament and see how far you get calling everyone who doesnt agree with you liars and idiots. Just because it’s something you believe in, it doesnt make you right. Opinions are like assholes…etc….

          • Meg

            I am sure you do not. It suits your tinted glasses not to.

          • Agent BallSack

            I have opinions just like you. Unlike you however I can see the whole picture because I have no fingers in this pie. And I am willing to change my opinions if I see I have been mistaken, I do not have a concrete view of the world.

          • Meg

            Attacking the sick and disabled is unacceptable and I will not be sorry for saying so.

            So please paint me as you please.

          • blokeintakapuna

            by whose measure is this “attacking”?
            Why do you get to define what “attacking” is or isn’t? Why do you think your opinion is worth more than anyone else’s?

          • Agent BallSack

            I will with hold my judgement until I see the effects of the policy. If it is as bad as you say, it won’t take long for the stories to leak out. Then National will have made a bad policy decision and will maybe cost them the election. If not, then the policy has worked.

          • Mr Sackunkrak

            Now that is a sensible comment!

          • Agent BallSack

            Sorry, I’ll stop immediately! ☺

          • Meg

            The stories do not leak out now, they are kept nice and under wraps.

            It is like CYPS. the stories that come out are only the tip of the horror under the surface. But no one wants to know unless it directly impacts them. We are not the compassionate society we would like to think we are.

          • BR

            “The stories do not leak out now, they are kept nice and under wraps”

            How? Are they threatened with having their benefits cut if they complain?

            Bill.

          • Meg

            They are intimidated, yes.

            Others are simply not smart enough to challenge the system,

            Others become so frustrated they give up fighting WINZ and fall deeper into poverty and despair.

            Often I have urged people to complain how they have been treated, denied help etc… but they always refuse because they don’t want a fuss or a scared what will happen if they do.

            But I suspect you (or someone like you) will come back ranting something along the lines of they deserve it, or your a liar. or some other witty comeback because it is not something you you care to know about.

          • metalnwood

            Go to google and then type in poverty. When the results come back click on the link for images.

            Then compare that to our lot of overweight poverty stricken layabouts and dare to use the word poverty in NZ again.

          • Meg

            Ahhh the bullshit argument that NZ has no poverty. Spoken like a true right winger.

          • metalnwood

            I bet our poverty is the envy of every african nation. Overweight people who live in houses that have tv’s and most likely have enough spare poverty money for alcohol too.

            I know that there is now some UN definition of poverty that means even some people in monaco are in ‘poverty’ relative to the rest of monaco but give me a break about how hard life is there when you are in the bottom 3% and can only afford the $3mil apartment on the bottom floor.

            Same goes for here. Bottom 3% here is like luxury in any country where real poverty exists.

          • Col

            Now that is unfair what you say here, I would say 99% of people on here CARE, and if you reckon you are having a bad deal you should go to your local Labour MP seeing you like them more than Nat MPs. Have you been to see these people?

          • Meg

            Sorry I do not believe you do care. Not one jot, and nor do most on here.

          • Col

            Free world, you do not care then?

          • Mediaan

            Attacking fraudsters, Meg. Try to get the point.
            The rest of your examples would need a change in the law, if we are to give more money to them.

          • Meg

            Yet the fraudsters will not suffer.

          • Liberty

            Fact is you have stated you are anti National.
            Fact you are a raving socialist.
            Fact you are away with the fairies.
            So to be correct a Green/Labour/NZF/Mana apologist
            Happy now.

          • Meg

            Fact National hate the poor
            Fact Labour are more interested in helping the poor
            Fact I am based in the real world where as people like you are based in a land of hate

            So to be correct you are a National/ACT hater of the poor and sick.

          • Agent BallSack

            Labour love the poor because they can lie to them and pretend they care to get their votes. National don’t hate the poor thats a bizarre statement to make. National are trying to improve everyones lot, poor black white brown yellow not just the section of society that can’t be fucked contributing.

          • Meg

            Given how they treat the poor ABS I dispute your claim National don’t hate the poor.

          • BR

            “Given how they treat the poor ABS I dispute your claim National don’t hate the poor.”

            Labour love the poor so much that they do everything possible to ensure that there is always a plentiful supply of poor on which to vent their affections.

            Bill.

          • I am sorry but I have to say something at this point. Labour want to give a man a fish ( taken from other fishermen ) National want to teach a man to catch his own fish. They believe rightly that self worth and satisfaction comes from providing for yourself.They do care. My Alternative Education students when they leave me at 16 have a range of Youth Guarantee courses to move on to that the tax payer pays for so that they can gain the skills needed to get a job rather than go onto the dole. Some of their parents have never had a job and are now being
            ‘ forced ‘ to go to training paid for by the tax payer. I have seen one woman who was scared at first but now has a sense of pride. She is enjoying the course and now wants a job and has gained confidence.THAT is the answer to poverty NOT keeping her on the DPB having children to different men in order to keep the money coming in.

          • Meg

            When other fisherman can spare a fish or 2 it is their DUTY to let the other person have a fish of theirs for a while.

            Their Christian duty or moral duty depending if you are religious or not.

          • Steve (North Shore)

            Why should the fisherman continue to catch fish when a grubby Socialist is just going to steal his fish?

          • Meg

            As I said before to someone else, go learn about what socialism actually is.

          • Steve (North Shore)

            So you can not answer, just digress?

          • Meg

            Given your misuse of the word socialism it is hard to answer accurately. But just for you I will say this…

            Those who have fallen on hard times deserve our help. It is morally the right thing to do. They should not be punished by the selfish who do not want to help. Also the fisherman is NOT having all his fish stolen off him. That is an outright lie. If we look at it from a % view the fisherman is probably losing maybe the eyeball of his fish and keeping the rest.

            So the fisherman should be grateful he has the ability to fish and help those who cannot. Because if those who cannot fish are left with no help, then one day they might just go and beat the crap out of the fisherman and take everything off him to feed their family.

            So to ease your right wing mind think of it as keeping yourself well looked after, as opposed to losing the lot.

          • Steve (North Shore)

            And the bleeding Socialist should think: “I better not demand too much fish or I may get fuck all”

          • Meg

            Sigh, so saith the heartless.

          • http://www.wheresmytaxes.co.nz/

            I love facts, don’t you?

          • Here’s some more:

            Please note, down are categories of pisstaking bludgers, up are the categories that need more help, such as: old people, invalids, sick people, people experiencing hardship. (Notice that “meg”?)

            The overall social welfare bill is down 0.4%, but within it the money is being taken from the pisstakers and given to those that actually need it.

          • Pissedoffyouth

            Why has gayguy/meg/teacherscock never proven anything with a hard link? You just did within a few seconds?

          • I’ve observed “Meg” for some time, and s/he isn’t really interested in debating the actual issues.

            You could, for example, take the 3% drop in veterans pensions and get immediately upset about the heartless government taking money away from those who gave service to their fellow man in conflicts all over the world, or, you could realise it is because they are passing away that the amount is getting less.

            Once you actually drill down to the real numbers and the real reasons, you find out that Paul Bennett isn’t some baby eating devil worshipper but instead trying to identify waste and re-targeting this to where the money is needed most.

            Genuine debates can be had over whether the thresholds and tests are reasonable, or if they go too far. But anyone that comes here and goes “National bad” “non-National good”, is immediately disqualified as a reasonable human being. They are dogmatic. And as a result, not worth talking with (you might as well bounce a ball against a wall, it comes back too).

            In spite of the fact I love to see lively debates on the blog, and the engagement of its readers, when it doesn’t actually get much further than skimming the surface by throwing labels and slogans about, there isn’t much point to it.

            I for one would prefer “Meg” and his/her cohorts to stay away. They add heat, but no light. At all.

            And I’m happy to forgo a bit of blog traffic in the interest of having a slightly more elevated level of discourse, one that may even approach an actual, ahem, debate.

          • Pissedoffyouth

            It does get annoying when every conversation goes

            “National are scum and ruined teaching/poor people” or “Gay people take better care of babies and commit less crime”, and asking for some proof getting stuff like “Look around you”, “Google search” or the age-old “duh it is common sense”.

            I do see a time when both sides can give compelling evidence but I doubt it

          • Dave

            He used to be on almost every day a year or so ago PoY, posting under Kosh101, and even then he was devoid of facts or references to back his/her/it’s claims.

            Best we ignore the troll, s/he does not add to a debate, rather s/he consumes the debate.

          • Meg

            Given that any defense of those who need help is met with nasty bile ridden attacks from your lot, I have to laugh at your high mighty attitude.

          • Col

            I asked her too have a look, but Meg never came back, not hard to find, but Meg will say this is National bullshit.

          • Meg

            Bludgers in your words… those of us with hearts say otherwise,

          • Meg

            And?

          • Nechtan

            Surely you are not advocating that its ok to “beat the crap out” of others and steal their possessions? Regardless of the reason.

          • Meg

            No I am not. I am saying that people will do what they need to provide for their families. So kick the poor and the needy enough times and eventually they will kick back.

          • Col

            Spanishbride was telling you something here and your not listening. REAL people don’t like things given too them, even the poor have pride.

            Bit like in Africa, better to give a goat than a glass of MILK.

          • Meg

            Yes the poor do have pride, but when it comes to their families REAL PEOPLE will swallow it.

            But then to offer meaningful help as opposed to attacking people who need it is too selfless for too many in NZ these days.

          • Agent BallSack

            Perhaps they should swallow their pride and get a crap job instead of expecting us to pay for them. I did it years ago and never looked back.

          • mike

            Bullshit… have you ever read the Ant and the Grasshopper?

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ant_and_the_Grasshopper

          • James

            Fucking bullshit! No one has an UN-CHOSEN obligation to anyone else by some “right”. To claim otherwise is to support the slave doctrine that is altruism…..the “moral” dogma that a man is his Brothers keeper.

            No decent human being with pride or self esteem accepts or practices that filth. True compassionate aid to others comes from voluntary benevolence….in the form of PRIVATE charitable donations …not State enforced welfare. The State has no business in charity or aid at all.

          • BR

            “Fact Labour are more interested in helping the poor”

            Fact: No politician from any party actually cares about anything except their election prospects.

            Bill.

          • Meg

            For some true. For many not true. Even the National ones are there to advance the causes they care about.

            The poor just are not one of them.

          • mike

            Fact National has put more money into benefits than Labour.
            Fact National is more interested in improving the economy so poor people can get jobs and therefore get off the benefit.
            Fact I live in the real world, I am a blue collar worker with a wife and two kids, a mortgage and live off a single income.

            So to be correct I am a swing voter who cares about this Country and who hates those people who rip off the system and waste my tax dollars

          • Col

            It won’t happen.

        • Muffin

          Using your reasoning we shouldn’t even try, just accept that there are thousands rorting the system. Fuck that! And stuff you.

          • Meg

            Well that was yet another piss poor attempt to lie about what I actually said.

            Try again.

          • Mediaan

            No, if you refer back to your statements about “the sick and disabled” – very over the top statements – it’s not a lie.

          • Meg

            Ahh that would be no to you.

            I never said we should not try. Not once and to suggest otherwise is a lie. I have said national are targeting the wrong people. Very different to saying do nothing.

            Now I am not silly enough to expect you to apologise for lying, but do try not to do it again.

          • mike

            And how do you target only the bludgers Meg?

    • Agent BallSack

      People on the sickness benefit wont be targeted if they’re actually sick. But these days you can go on the sickness benefit if youre addicted to drugs. Hardly fair on the people who truly need it now is it?

    • rusty

      What a load of bullshit. When New Zealanders genuinely need help they will get it from the state and there aren’t too many Kiwi’s (here included) who begrudge our taxes doing that. However when I give to charity (which is what it is) then I expect it to only go to the really needy and I don’t expect it to support drugs, smoking, drinking and lifestyles i don’t agree with. This National government are no worse or better than any other government in dealing with benefits. Labour governments give more away and national governments tighten up a bit but the fundamental system remains unchanged. Your rant is nothing more than the ravings of someone who has a pathological hatred of national governments without any rational thought or common sense. Where I work people get fired if they fail a drugs test. If my tax is going to support families whose main breadwinner cannot find work then I have an expectation that they won’t be spending that money on drugs and thereby deny themselves the opportunity to get work so my hard earned taxes can go to help someone else.
      Its attitudes like yours that me me ashamed and despair for the future of our country. Fortunate the polls indicate you are in the minority.

      • Meg

        A tad naive there rusty.

        • Arran Hunt

          Compared to you Meg who thinks that Winz will stop paying genuinely sick people?

          • Meg

            Had much experience with people who have been in that situation have you?

        • rusty

          Maybe, put my naive vote will still cancel out your stupid one.

          • Meg

            Yet given National’s lack of buddies, my vote will be for the new Government.

          • blokeintakapuna

            when using minerals-based paints in enclosed spaces, always ensure adequate ventilation.

          • Meg

            Capital letter for the start of a sentence.

          • Agent BallSack

            I seem to recall you saying this before the election. That Labour was going to win.

          • Meg

            And I would say you are either mistaken or deliberately lying. Labour were never going to win the last election.

          • Agent BallSack

            So you deny posting here as Kosh103 stating that come November National would be out?

    • Nechtan

      Without trying to sound big headed or anything, I have a disability (paraplegic) I drag my bum out of bed every weekday and head into work, same as any other working person. If I (and others) can do that then those who have long term illnesses can surely front up to Winz or whoever once and a while.

      • Meg

        There is a difference to fronting up and being made to feel like you are scum by the very people who are meant to help and support you.

        • Arran Hunt

          Again, stop assuming, for no reason, that they will be treated like scum.

          • Meg

            Again I say, had much experience with people who have been in that situation have you?

          • island time

            Are you pissed off with the way individuals at WINZ have treated people in some circumstances or pissed off with the policy? The two need to be separated. You are not the only person who has to deal with others who are sick etc.

          • Meg

            Both.

      • Pharmachick

        Well said Nechtan. No, not at all “big headed” … I consider you to be incredibly inspiring for the attitude you express and your subsequent actions.
        Especially compared to several posts here that amount to little more than petty whingeing about “woe is me, I have a sore [insert non-essential body part], where’s my ACC payout”. GRRRRRR

  • Liberty

    Paula Bennett is a hero

    • Meg

      She is a 2 faced cow.

      She got all the help and more from WINZ before entering politics and now has slashed almost every bit of support she got from the system.

      • Kendall

        Hmmmm. change or Greece. all those that do not want change cannot live within the means that the state gives them. go live in Greece and see real need.

        • Meg

          We are no Greece and it is silly to try and justify this hateful action in that way.

          • Kendall

            its not hateful. That is a spurious claim (maybe just as much as my Greece call). Why is this “hateful” please explain. Its a change to the rules to ensure we are getting the right outcome. Must do something as the last way wasn’t working. BTW I have some involvement with the long term disability’s in this country. I fully support the people who help and the government for what they have done for many that I know.

          • Meg

            It is hateful to attack the sick and disabled. And that is what this is.

          • Kendall

            Bollocks

          • blokeintakapuna

            You wish it was – just so the left would then have a narrative to push an agenda with which to try and bash National with. Fortunately – it never has been and never will be – but keep up the shrilling Meg – it makes for ok entertainment watching your bullshit get kicked to touch and your butt handed to you again and again.

          • Col

            Welcome too the real world, well overdue.
            I once was on the Dole for 2 – 3 months, I now employ 5 people, and no one has ever knocked on my door asking for work.
            Life is toooooooooooo easy here in NZ.
            You have a nice day Meg we love to hear from you and wonder if your on leave from your real job?

          • Agent BallSack

            Yep. Meg is a school teacher.

          • Col

            No, not a school teacher, she had to go and bugger off to find a job as she never replied to me, must have hit the “FIND A REAL JOB NERVE”

          • Agent BallSack

            Meg is a He. Resident troll with many aliases here and a one eyed view of the world. You may have met him as Gayguy Teachersrock or Kosh to name his more prolific profiles.

          • Mediaan

            I tend to think it is a very good male friend of an older male who is a school teacher.

          • Meg

            Life is far from easy in NZ for those on the bottom.

            Something National likes to remind them of on a daily basis.

          • Col

            I was so happy that I had a Govt that gave me money to get by, I could have lived on that for the rest of my life, no smokes, no beer, wash the nappies, grow some veg, go to the second hand shop for my clothes ( my 17 year old son still does) and not use the car, but walk. Don’t ever tell me anyone here in NZ is getting a raw deal MEG, they are bloody lucky to live here.
            Let me take your hand and show you the real world, I m sorry you are living in a little bubble. Tell me the countries you have been too and I will tell you how good there welfare is, come tell if you have been outside NZ, and give me a country that has welfare as good as NZ?
            ps and jobs.

          • Meg

            If anyone is living in a bubble it is people like you.

          • Col

            Tell me the countries that have a better WELFARE system, and then you can burst my bubble Meg, come on lets hear it, don’t change the subject!!!!!

          • Meg

            Many European countries. However we do have a good one here, and we should defend it from people such as yourself who would destroy it and kick the needy in the guts.

          • Col

            NAME THEM PLEASE, or tell me, I asked you to name the country, not a continent.

            And why have you accused me of trying too destroy it, you do not know who I am, and saying that just makes all the comments you have made here, become a non event for you.

          • Meg

            Answer this, if social welfare vanished tomorrow, would you give a shit or be happy for allll the money the Government now has to play with?

            Oh and…

            Denmark, Iceland, Sweden, Norway, Finland to name a few.

          • Col

            Not having looked into this as I would like, please have a look at these sites, but first;
            Denmark, you have very high taxes to pay for welfare.
            Finland, Unemployment is always very high, you pay health Ins.
            Iceland, you pay health Ins.
            Norway, Employers pay for your health Ins. Need to be working.
            Sweden, go and have a look at newpol.org/ups>down – Sweden/welfare.
            After you have had a look, I think you may find NZ is better!!.
            I can tell you this, Taiwan you pay $30 dollars a month for health Ins, 2 fillings and teeth clean $7-00nz, Cancer operation, 14 days in hospital, no charge, but private room for 14 days under $3000 nz
            The countries you have listed do not stack up.
            You have a problem, now if you can tell me who your MP is, or your nearest Labour MP is, I reckon I could get you a good hearing from one of them.
            It would go like this, you tell me your MP, I call them and say Meg is coming to see you and I want you to listen, and help if you can. You ring and make the time, would you be on for this? You can get to say your bit? Be really good if it was a Labour MP as you do feel close to them more so than the other parties.
            cheers.

          • Dave

            Col. Meg needs a major operation as s/he is full of shit, and a colon cleanse is recommended first, then the operation that severs the extra nerve s/he has that connects s/he’s anal gland to s/he’s eyes, that alone should cure s/he’s shitty outlook on life.

            Then, please please make the appointments for s/he. One for Kosh101, one for Meg, one for GayGuy, one for TeachersCock and one for Paul. Hopefully, as the appointments are with a Labour MP, they can follow on from each other to avoid the different personalities having to travel repeatedly.

            From memory, S/he lives north of the harbour bridge, Possibly the Kamo area!!

          • Dave

            Col. Admiration for your determination and Success, strange you mention no one has ever came knocking, we have had a few knocking asking for work, I find them usually pretty good, the long term unemployed are usually that way for a reason, they DON’T go asking, just sit back with their hand out!

            Meg, does not answer direct questions or provide details let alone fact, just the same old, its all lies, the right…… and so on. Should come with a warning – “Professional troll”

          • Col

            Meg replied to one of my questions, came back and told me she would reply once I correct the spelling mistakes, now that is a put down, so I think Meg is full of it’s self. Meg is no fact finder that one, I love it like fishing, play them then let them go. Must be on P lol

          • Meg

            Try fishing for facts. You might have better luck.

          • Col

            You don’t fish then? No facts, right?

          • Edwin Wigmore

            Under Labour we were well and truly on the way to Greece. You may recall Treasury predicting never ending deficits. Eventually the money would have run out. You may also recall the “secret” budget Cullen was going to bring in after the election. It was obviously so bad they didnt want it earlier.

      • Agent BallSack

        Bullshit. She made her life better with a fucking HAND UP. Or you would prefer she stayed on the benefit her whole life?

        • Meg

          And she has taken those hand ups away.

          • Agent BallSack

            How?

          • Meg

            You go look for all the hand ups she got.

            She has removed them.

          • Agent BallSack

            Facts Meg. You do the work and back up your spurious allegations.

          • Meg

            That is fact. The fact that you do not “remember” her actions is not my problem.

        • Jonathan Pull

          Bullshit, she decided that working was to hard so fell back onto the benefit, get it right.

          • Agent BallSack

            Really? I thought she was an MP. Guess lies are all you have.

          • Jonathan Pull

            “Bennett said she’d worked part-time but that she ‘pretty much
            fell apart because I was exhausted. I went back on the DPB’.”

            “When she was only 19, Paula Bennett was on the [DPB] but was able to buy her own house in Taupo for $56,000, courtesy of a Housing Corporation loan.

            http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/bennett-dismisses-harawira-s-hypocrite-jibe-4744621

            Call it a dubious source if you will but its from the woman herself.
            Yeah shes a hard worker today but back then she is what you would class a lazy filthy doll bludger or what ever WO contributors like to call them today.

          • Meg

            While I am no fan of almost any in National, I will say this, go try their job for a day.

            As spiteful and nasty as they are the hours are more than most could handle.

          • Agent BallSack

            Good on you. You get an upvote for the truth.

          • Meg

            I will always speak the truth.

            Paula is a nasty 2 faced woman, but I will not claim she is not a hard worker, because she is.

          • Jonathan Pull

            Im talking about before she got into politics. While she was on the DPB.
            But I will agree with you, their job isn’t easy and they have got the easiest time to be in charge. I certainly don’t envy their current position.

          • Meg

            And she used the assistance that there was to get employment.

            And then took it away.

          • Mediaan

            Untrue.

          • Meg

            100% true. Not that I am silly enough to think for a moment you will accept this. Not nice to cut the training allowance she used to get ahead.

      • Liberty

        Meg
        Has Paula upset your cosy life style?
        Now you can join the real world.

        • Meg

          Paula wishes she had my lifestyle.

          • Super_Guest

            So you’re a chardonnay socialist are you? The, literal, biggest cunt in the world.

          • Meg

            So because I have good things, but still feel for and want to help the poor I am a cunt.

            Huh, coming from scum like you I say…. thank you for the kind words.

          • Mediaan

            Untrue, I am sure, as she looks very happy and confident.

      • rusty

        Really, so the domestic purposes benefit is gone, the unemployment benefit has gone,work schemes no longer exist, you can no longer get emergency benefits, job assistance is no longer there, all the WINZ offices will close and we are stopping all spending on welfare?
        I must of missed that, either that or you are just full of shit.

        • Meg

          The schemes that worked for her and helped 1000s are gone by her hand.

          • Agent BallSack

            Perhaps we can’t afford schemes where we throw money at people their whole lives Meg.

          • Meg

            Paula wasn’t there for her whole life.

            She should have used her success to promote those schemes, as opposed to making sure it was harder for people to get into work and then punishing them for not getting into work.

          • Agent BallSack

            Institutionalised welfare cases do not learn by example.

          • Meg

            Well Paula has made sure they cannot.

          • blokeintakapuna

            The world continues to turn Meg. What was in 1970 can no longer be held true in 2013. Situations, events, technology and how reality is today is completely different to yesterday. Get over it.
            Evolve – or be left behind!
            (Left behind – sounds like a nick name for Mallard or Little)

          • Meg

            Yes, better to just toss out success as opposed to move it with the times.

          • blokeintakapuna

            no – just adapt, alter, change, revise, measure, alter, adapt, change, measure…

            In the real world – it’s called “better outcomes” and as always, to achieve better outcomes, first you need to be able to evaluate and measure them…
            You’ll learn about achieving better outcomes soon Meg – once School goes back – it’s called National Standards and it’s going to improve education outcomes for the 20% that have and are currently failing. It will mean learning to adapt and evolve too, moving with the times, because it is 2013, not 1970.

          • Meg

            And yet Paula did none of that. She just tossed it all out once she had made it.

            And I see you are just another swallower of lies from the rest of your post. No surprise you think this is a good policy.

          • Dave

            Meg/Kosh/Paul/GayGuy, or whoever. The schemes worked for Paula, you are correct. And Kosh, as you identified, she used the HAND UP / WELFARE to fix her situation, to get AHEAD, she didn’t sit on her arse and bludge for years, she got a job, moved on, and is now a TAX PAYING net CONTRIBUTOR to society, just like others should be Meg.

            Do you actually understand that Meg, its how the system will STILL work, to help people get on their feet, its not designed to provide for someone (like my own Brother in law) who simply want to stay at home on the dole or DPB etc.

            So Meg, if your so keen on these poor people, why don’t you put a sign out, “Free Board for those affected by Benefit Cuts” and look after them yourself. I am sure they will be grateful and cook and clean for you, fix the fence, weed the garden in return “Tui”

            Kosh – a Hand Up, not a hand out for life!!

          • Jonathan Pull

            She eventually took a “hand up” not before she decided it was all far to hard and just took the hand out.
            By all means congratulations to the woman but she can hardly be scathing of bludgers when she was one by WO standards herself.
            Also the reforms proposed today are nothing to do with hand ups or outs, its about catching crims (which is fucking brilliant) and penalizing parents on a benefit.
            I as a non beneficiary can do with my child (without harming them) as I will when it comes to education and health, but beneficiaries no longer have this choice, regardless of weather they’re fantastic parents or not this government has removed their choice of parenting because they receive assistance. Sounds awfully communistic and socialist, a little surprised to see WO contributors supporting such a policy that they would hate to have imposed upon themselves.
            To me that is bordering on dictatorial, but why to only one segment of society? Are they somehow less than anyone else? Perhaps they’re just getting the “hand up” but because they’re getting it the state is going to control part of their lives.

            As Ive said I agree with part of this policy and its good to root out the rorters but why they fuck to they need to penalize good parents who aren’t doing anything wrong and those that might just be getting a genuine hand up like Paula did eventally.

      • CheesyEarWax

        Meg, do a Google search on “Britain welfare reforms” and have a look what they are doing and more importantly why they are doing it.

        • Meg

          The UK and America are 2 countries we should NEVER follow when it comes to policies.

          • Agent BallSack

            Yeah we should follow France and Greece LMFAO. How about ANY of the Asian countries with NO welfare?

          • Meg

            No, we should follow ourselves. Or are National unable to come up with their own world leading ideas.

          • Col

            They have come up with world leading ideas, just now, that’s what we are talking about?????
            ps did I spell that right?

          • Meg

            No they have come up with ideas that others will look at and think dear God how can they treat people like that?

          • Dave

            Along with anything that has any association with Labour and Unions Kosh/Meg/Gayguy/Paul #whoeverelseyouaretoday

          • mike

            What about the US Bill of Rights, Declaration or Independence or US Constitution?

            Or how about the Magna Carta?

            Those are some pretty great policies aren’t they?

      • Col

        But like me she got some help, thank you to all the real TAX Payers, and saw the ones using and screwing the system.
        I think all those on the dole should have to report everyday and clock in at WINZ before they go looking for a job, na bed at this time of the year is to warm eh Meg, what do you think?

        • Meg

          Yes she got some help, then made damn sure that it was next to impossible for anyone to get the help, the hand up that she did.

          I have ZERO issue with the people on the doel having life made difficult for them. ZERO. It is the attacks on the sick and disabled that are disgusting. And I can tell you this now, not ONE person who has been scamming the system for years and years will be caught by this or have their life made hard by this. The people who will suffer will be those who actually need help.

          This is about election year PR, not actual action.

          • Alloytoo

            lets translate you position into other situation.

            You hate drunk drivers have zero tolerance for drunk drivers, but object to road blocks because the vast majority of people going through road blocks are sober, we know this because we breath test them. your position is that we shouldn’t breath test sober drivers…..by now everyone has grasped the circular nature of your argument except perhaps you.

          • Meg

            Pitty that simply does not work.

            However I understand why you will not see that.

          • Agent BallSack

            I agree with your dole comment.

      • Mediaan

        Untrue.

        • Meg

          Nope.

      • Travis Poulson

        If she’s a 2 faced cow, what does that make you, kosh103/Gayguy/Teachersrock/Meg/Paul? a 5 faced sore arsed teacher?

  • Col

    This should have happened years ago.
    30 years ago you had people living together in groups, they paid the rent drunk piss smoked and never went to work, they had a good time. I came across this many times here in CHCH. The Dole was there to help short time, not an income for life.
    Well over due, great to see this happening.

  • RobertOsbourne

    So they object to paying their bills, modifying their lifestyle to improve their employability and looking after their children. Ergo, they seriously don’t want to be become “middle class”?

  • Jonathan Pull

    I agree completely with the warrant and cancellation part but forcing parents to raise children in a certain way because they’re beneficiaries. Talk about segregation and persecution.
    Not all beneficiaries are bad parents, national and WO just love to stack the figures because they’re beneficiaries, there are abusing and shit wealthy parents too but the government doesn’t dictate to them how to raise their children. Its blatant discrimination. Let a parent be a parent and if they’re shit then penalize them.

    • blokeintakapuna

      yes and no.
      If a parent is raising a family by welfare payments only, living off free tax payer funded largesse, then there really should be checks and balances and a form of “social contract” the recipient MUST adhere to as a condition of receiving that free money from the tax payer. And if part of those requirements are to ensure parents learn how to budget, grow vege’s, make their own bread, learn to cook and sew, learn how to be effective parents – like my grandparents did in the days of the Great Depression, having to provide for yourself with very, very little – then so be it. They should be thankful for the new skills they learn and the independence those skills then afford the individual.
      Besides – Welfare was never intended as a lifestyle choice – except for the genuinely needy. Everyone else has a date with reality!

  • rusty

    I see with 3800 votes so far the Herald Poll shows 57% support for the government in this one. So apposing it is another winning strategy for labour and the greens

  • Mr Sackunkrak

    Bugger me, the loon has been busy today. Hey Meg, if you care so much for those about to loose their free ride, you are free to pay them direct yourself, and to the extent you believe they deserve it. Knock yourself out.

    • Meg

      I care for the sick and the disabled National are attacking, unlike too many on here I am not so selfish to just worry about myself.

      • Mr Sackunkrak

        So find one and write him/her a cheque.

        • Meg

          I dish out quite a bit of my own cash to those who need it. Remember I am not a right winger so I know right from wrong.

          • Mr Sackunkrak

            Good on ya. Welcome to Tory Charity.

          • Meg

            Yea, please do not insult me like that. I have too higher morals to be a tory.

          • pukakidon

            You are not to proud to take our taxes though eh!

          • mike

            Isn’t Bill Gates a right winger… and isn’t he one of the biggest philanthropists in the world?

            He donates more to charity in one year than all of us combined.

            How much does JK donate out of his salary… and how much do you think Shearer / Robinson / Goff donate. My bet is JK donates more than all of them combined.

      • steve and monique

        Hi Meg. So you are happy to leave the present system in place,and allow people to rip off the system. Could it be that the reforms have been put in place to kerb what is a rip off of taxpayer money. I am sure the genuine ones will be OK. If not,then feel free to rub our collective noses in it.

        • Meg

          I am saying target the reforms in the right place, like the dole not attack the sick and the disabled.

          • Pissedoffyouth

            So if they purely did this for the dole you would support it? You wouldn’t come here screaming murder like you have been today?

          • Jonathan Pull

            I wonder what the figures are for people who have been found to be cheating the benefit and those that have been found cheating the sickness benefit.
            Not overly related here but would be interesting none the less.

          • Pissedoffyouth

            I’ve met a couple people who in the past have claimed to be alcoholics to get a benefit. Sure thing, but pay for it in food grants and the rent directly, instead of helping feed the addiction

          • Meg

            The doel first yes, then look at the DPB in a KIND and CARING way. Not just in a saving pennies way.

          • Pissedoffyouth

            Lets look at the opposite of this, lets look in a KIND and CARING way high taxes reduce the income of the poorest of our society who choose to work

          • Meg

            Yes lets do that. Reduce the tax rate for low income earners and increase the rate for those at the other end.

            Very good.

          • mike

            How much tax does someone who earns $30k a year actually pay (NET not Gross)

          • steve and monique

            Ok, so do you think no one on the sickness/invalids/disabled benefits are not ripping off the system.

      • Up to a point it seems. (Taken from another post today)

        • Meg

          And your point would be………?

          • mike

            You get paid to do Jury duty… plus it’s part of being a member of this society. Your chance to have a say as it were.

          • pukakidon

            Sorry Mike, Meg only takes and never contributes. She leaves all the society responsibilities/duties to the rest of us.

      • Mediaan

        Name one of them, “the sick and disabled National are attacking”. There aren’t any.

        Facts, please.

        • Meg

          Seeing as I have actually dealt with people who have suffered under Nationals rules I would have to call you naive.

          I await your predictable comeback

          • Mallard the duck

            yes they suffered because they were caught bludging and made to get off their arse to look for work.

  • Alman

    It is important for us not to be just a land of retirees, politicians, criminals and beneficiaries. We need the system to be aimed to benefit workers and businesses plz note Labour is supposed to be fighting for the rights of workers not lazy people…. It is absoute madness for one to think it is sustainable to give benefits for life for those who are able to work and for those on the run for the law. I dont believe this is happening anywhere in the world & if it was that country is heading for bankruptcy

  • Sarrs

    Came here to read an actual debate. Saw it was all just Meg shrieking about the unfairness of it all, how National are just so mean and, once again, never suggesting a viable alternative to a single piece of policy. Rolled eyes and left. I am not planning on engaging in a discussion that, at the time of my post, consisted on 162 comments and probably at least 75% of them were Meg beating the unfairness drum and having a cry. Yes Meg, we get it, it’s school holidays and you have plenty of time on your hands. Make your point. Answer questions. Make counter point. Do not bleat about the same thing over and over again. You probably just copy paste your comments from previous threads…the content is exactly the same.

    Sorry everyone else, I’m not normally bad tempered in the comments but this relentless thread jacking and hysteria from Meg today is pissing me off.

  • HtD

    I for one am fucking sick of this ‘solo parent’ shit. I know only one genuine solo parent. Her husband was killed by a beneficiary who had been on the piss all night before he drove into her husband and two others, killing them (and happily, killing himself). WE TAXPAYERS had paid for that booze! My friend and her husband were responsible people. Got the $5000 maximum from ACC, which goes towards the funeral and fuck all else. Two kids, still in nappies. Now live off his life insurance. That’s what good citizens do – work and cover future possibilities.
    If ‘solo parents’ choose to breed with scumbags, or criminals, why should I have to pay? Why should my kids not benefit fully from what I have earned, through my studies and years of hard work? I collect 15% GST on all I earn. I pay Income Tax on my earnings. I then pay GST/petrol tax/booze duty on all I spend. I’m fucking sick of paying out, then still these whining scrounging feckless turds moan.
    I wish National were a lot tougher.

    • Alman

      this is the unfortunate part of the whole tax regime worldwide…. We are no different to the days of the lords & serfs in feudal England. Working people are slaves to the leaders & the lazy. The leaders go out of their way to ensure their lavish lifestyles & great perks at the expense of the working people & redistribute the forced takings (tax) frivolously as they see fit.

      Tax levels are far too high and punish those who work hard and reward those who don’t want to on the grounds of “fairness”. A fairer system would be a flat tax rate of 20% with the 1st $30k exempt for all with gst as is & extremely limited benefits & politicians salaries to be set at double the median annual income of its citizens which for NZ would equate to $80-90k. The top rates are never paid by the wealthy who use wise tax consultants & accountants to ensure they never pay it.

  • metalnwood

    The herald has a new one about the woman who will have to become a prostitute http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10898462

    Apparently she can’t face people and winz are trying to push her in to jobs she cant do. They asked to to do call centre work but she said it wasnt possible for her.

    So for her personal reasons of not being able to face people, she cant talk to people on the phone but she can suck their dicks in person.

    Well, its a legit job and it gets her off the benefit. If I was here I would take the call center work, she will make more money.

  • Alman

    Where are the jobs say the naysayers?? I say look to Christchurch & the farms – loads of work in the trades down there. Heck we’re even importing people to work in Chch & the farms but yet have able people on unemployment benefit. Yes they’re tough jobs in tough places but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do to get ahead in life

  • thor42

    You can be 100% sure that when a government brings in reforms that make someone like Meg explode with rage, then the reforms are exactly what is needed.

    • Meg

      We are talking about the sick and disabled. Not those on the doel.

      Or do you fail to see the difference?

      • Pissedoffyouth

        Aunty Helen moved people to the sickness benefit.

        As stated by Petal earlier National are increasing the aid to genuine beneficiaries- the ones with a “sore back” or “broken thumb” are the reason they are cutting back on this, if they hadn’t done the move in the first place nobody would be attacking the sickies as the only people on the sickness benefit would be actually sick!

      • Mallard the duck

        sick of work…

    • Mallard the duck

      The factory where I worked have people who are disabled working alongside able bodied workers and they are not afraid to get up early and start @ 6.30 am each day and compared to the “sickness beneficiaries” these co-workers are High in my respect for them. There are ” sickness beneficiaries” who are really lazy low life bludgers that this law is targeting and only the bludgers would wail and gnashed their teeth when reality sets in…

  • Steve (North Shore)

    If Meg/ (insert other name here) is a Teacher then he/she is also on Welfare C/- the Taxpayer.

  • Mr Sackunkrak

    Jeeze Meg, you’re a lone leftie voice here, now that you have put the Clyde Dam into full spin to support your electricity consumption, pay your Carbon Tax and fuck off. Thanks.

    • Meg

      I normally am the lone voice of kindness on here when it comes to those in need.

      • Dave

        Kindness, ignorance of others and facts more likely Kosh. Try reading, and considering facts. Kind would be helping others to get ahead, to make a buck, to be proud. not just giving them another dollar that you have to take from someone else Kosh101.

        Get with the program GayGuy.

      • Mallard the duck

        so it is wrong to cut benefits from criminals, bludgers…so us workers should continue paying our hard-earned tax to these lowlifes? mmm I like your do-goodness attitude.. mmm might make it my Tui policy

  • IWantToBeLikeMallardOneDay

    The reason why they have fines is because of the welfare state. The police will pull you over for anything and fine you for whatever they can get to keep the absurd racket that is the NZ economy ticking along.

  • Jonathan Pull

    Is there any truth to “private consultants” being
    paid a bonus roughly equal to a years benefit for each beneficiary they get off the dole and into a years paid employment?

    Would seem to defeat the purpose of the savings, not saying having them off the dole is bad but its like robbing peter to pay paul.

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