National’s biggest electoral risk is actually Snapper

Back Camera

Legal recreational snapper catch. All fish over 35cm, limit is 27cm
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I have been taking emails and phone calls from concerned fisherman over National’s stupidity over snapper quota reductions for recreational fisherman.

Not being a fisherman myself I decided to take advice…from people who actually catch fish recreationally. I will outline their views in a series of posts to follow on from this.

This post how serves as a warning to National, that they risk snapper becoming a lightbulb, carpark or shower-head issue but with far more lethal consequences. 

The problem really lies with the Minister, Nathan Guy, who is politically tone deaf and exactly what I have expected from him. He has now managed to who piss off every snapper fisherman in Auckland and the BOP, and Auckland is where elections are won and lost.

Nathan should be sacked after the screw up with the labelling of meat in China, his refusal to get off his chuff and go sort it himself, and now the Fonterra scandal add ti that the massive pounding National are taking for this stupid snapper policy.

When I say massive pounding I mean massive pounding. Ask any MP what the calls to their office are over and you will struggle to find a single MP, especially those from Auckland, who are taking any calls about the GCSB, privacy or even Andrea Vance. Most of the calls to the offices are from irate angler who are really ticked off.

It is National’s typical half witted bait and switch.

They will say it is going to be 3 snapper, then back off to 6 to keep people thinking they have won, whereas they should just take the NRA approach and nail Nathan…hard.

 


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  • LabTested

    I am probably not the average fisherman, I would only go out 6 times a year. We want to come back with a feed & 3 or even 6 fish is not it. As a rule we never ever keep any snapper under 30cm unless it has swallowed the hook. So I say keep the limit at 9 & up the minimum size . .. but I agree, why are they pissing off people for no reason. Even if they suddenly say the limit is 6 or 7 we will still remember the government is in our boat every time we go out. – Stupid

    • LabTested

      I seem to remember that Peter Dunne’s United Future Party was formed out of a number of political parties, one of which was a pro hunting & Fishing party. Was that the Future party? – excuse me if I am wrong, but if not – Peter, time to man up!

    • Tom

      I agree. When we go out we have a higher voluntary size limit than the official limit. 330mm is the minimum for me and my buddies. Pretty much every fisho I know has the same policy too. The commercial guys? Hell no!

      However, I’ll probably put up with a lower daily limit over a Labour/Greens/NZFirst government any bloody day, as will most people I know. Most of my fisho mates are tradies too, and don’t want a bar of the nutters.

    • Mr_Blobby

      Have no problem with a reasonable daily limit, but I do struggle with the minimum size.

      Yes I know it is considered breeding stock etc.

      But how many fish thrown back don’t survive. Die from the wounds or get eaten etc

      Personally I think the smaller fish taste better, a bit like the difference between Lamb and Mutton. We should be encouraging people not to throw back wounded fish, as they are unlikely to breed.

      • Michael Wagener

        Even if they don’t breed (and there is some good evidence that snapper that are thrown back normally survive) they still add to the food chain. The snapper that die feed other scavengers, who, in turn, feed snapper.

  • Steve (North Shore)

    A limit of 3 will just cause small dead fish to be thrown back as you catch larger ones.
    Sounds like the sort of ban the Green Taliban would come up with – idiots

    • Bunswalla

      Any half decent angler knows how to safely release an under-sized snapper (for those that don’t, it’s real simple: get the fish out of the water as soon as possible, cradle it in a damp cloth dipped in sea water, preferably upside down which males it stop flapping. Don’t squeeze it or grip with the fingers, just cradle it firmly. Carefully remove the hook, don’t worry if it makes a small hole in their jaw area, that will heal in no time. Reach over the side and slide it into the water).

      The real problem, which this stupid bill doesn’t address, is the mortality rate of small snapper by the commercial guys. This has been going on for years – dumping undersized fish and excess catch outside of quota, and hi-grading (substituting smaller fish you caught earlier and are now dead with larger fish which the export market prefers) are responsible for tens of tons of wasted dead fish every year.

      • Eric Morman

        Any half decent angler knows how to safely release,
        and the other half dont know. so more fish will die on release if the size is lifted.defeats the purpose of helping the stock rebuild,
        also allows Comm’s the advantage of more smaller fish to catch before they reach our desired size,
        there are less larger snapper around hence the reason MPI have given you the option to go bigger because you eventually Rec’s will not catch enough,
        you need to understand not everyone can catch 30plus centimeter fish not all the time anyway, so better to leave the size as is and limit your own catch, more dead fish is not what anyone wants.

  • Quintin Hogg

    Agreed on this. Have just made a suggestion to my local MP, yes list I know but still she is in our area, and her demographic are keen fishermen pointing out this issue. when I next see her I will bring it up as well.

    • Bunswalla

      You know what Quentin? I know a number of great female anglers that I reckon would outfish a hell of a lot of decent male anglers.

      • Hazards001

        Me too

  • Sir Cullen’s Sidekick

    Sheep is delighted folks. Keep your stupidity going….

  • Ghost

    Reducing bag limits and/or increasing the minimum length for recreational fishers would be an acceptable discussion point for the preservation of fish stocks in the area. Most people would agree that management of these areas and resources should be for the benefit of ours and the future generations. However, discussions around limiting or altering rules around recreational fishers and letting the commercial quotas, size and limits go unchanged is fundamental mismanagement. All this will do allow the commercials to clean out the areas and everyone else to go home with nothing. I believe that the commercial catch size if currently smaller judging by the overpriced minnow’s on the supermarket ice trays. This needs to change, it must be an standard / equal for all parties.

  • Jimmie

    Not really a big deal. If you catch 3 snapper then have a go for some gournard or trevalli or even kahawai.

    Not that hard to get a decent feed from the sea.

    Bag limits are fine as long as they go back up again once fish stocks increase.

    • James

      No problems with bag limits – but it isn’t the recreational fishers hoovering up the snapper. If you want stocks to increase then decrease the commercial catch and up their size limits.

      • Or restrict fishing in the breeding season

        • island time

          I think that is Nov – January? Probably when most people head out. Reducing the limit will require a lot of policing. Many fishermen are not the best at keeping to the rules.

    • Why would you catch bait?

      • Bunswalla

        The obvious reason is to use livies to catch bigger fish, but if you’re implying that kahawai and trevally are only good for bait you couldn’t be more wrong. It amazes me when fishos grizzle at catching either of these species – quite apart from the great sport and fight they put up, especially on light gear.

        Kahawai – I immediately bleed it by cutting the main artery under the throat and then gut it, rinsing out the gut cavity in the sea and put it on salt ice. The heads and wings make great cray bait, the body I split and dress with rock salt and brown sugar for a few hours, then wipe off the excess gunk and chuck them on the smoker. You can’t beat freshly smoked kahawai if it’s prepared properly.

        Trevally – probably one of the most versatile and best eating fish in the sea. It does make good bait if you’re running low but I far prefer to eat it. Again, bleed it to get the blood out of the meat and gut it, rinse it and put it on salt ice. Be very careful as even when dead, bled and eviscerated, trevally will flap around like anything. My brother lost about a 4kg fish while rinsing it – a violent flap and it slid out of his hands and sank at once. Feed for the snapper and kingies instead of us – oh well.

        Trevally are also excellent smoked, they make great ceviche and are fantastic in a curry – the flesh holds its shape and retains its flavour, even in a nice hot red thai or fijian curry. You can also fillet it in the normal way (there’s a knack to getting the skin off – need a video really) and if you pan-fry it or get the fish and chip shop to do it on the day you catch it, I doubt you’ll find a nicer fresh fillet anywhere.

    • Eric Morman

      if you know the track record of our fishery you will know that will never happen, it is a down hill spiral from here on next will be 2 then one then you will have to buy tags 6 or 7 a year one for each fish you land and that is all your allowed,
      get real, hang onto what you have and limit your own catch to your needs and dont force others to what you believe is right for you.

  • Ducky

    anything more than 3 snappers per person is greed, unless you are fishing for a weeks feed, then you should be fishing everyday. Like paua, (10 limit pp) you still get greedy people taking more than necessary and then selling them, that’s not recreational.

    • You know how much it costs to put a boat in the water to go get 3 snapper?

      • Jimmie

        Well diversify. Get your 3 snapper and your 20 kahawai and your 7 gournard and your 6 trevalli. (What ever their bag limits are)

        Not too many folks go fishing because its is a cheap form of getting food….

        • LabTested

          with all due respect. when did you ever catch that combination of fish, let alone in the numbers you are suggesting are possible

          • Bunswalla

            I think the fact he doesn’t know how to spell gurnard and trevally are a bit of a giveaway…

      • Nechtan

        This will apply to charter operators also, costs versus the expected bag for their clients.

        • RAS

          Too fucking bad IMHO. Charter operators ARE commercial fishermen.

          • Cameron

            I disagree, i work for a charter company and it costs about $90 to come out with us. We allow people that don’t have a boat or maybe have never even been on a boat get out and enjoy a good time on the water. We will be affected by the reduced bag limit, make no doubt about it but that’s because we take people out that may only get out once every 2 years and they THINK that we always catch 9 fish. The reality is most people can’t fish very well and they go home with 3-4 snapper. We show people what it’s like to be out on the water, see the Hauraki Gulf, and see for their own eyes what it’s like to take a feed from the sea, ultimately they leave the boat understanding whats out there and why it’s so important to preserve it. Don’t lump recreational fishing charters in with commercial, we teach good fishing practices, we allow kids and families to understand what fresh fish looks like, people leave our boat saying thanks for a great day on the water not thanks for the fish. In short, you’re so incredibly ignorant. P.S – I probably do more work in my free time for charities, ocean conservation and ocean preservation than you’ll do in your lifetime

      • Steve (North Shore)

        Yes I do. Boat, outboard, trailer, rego/wof, fuel, rod/reel, bait.
        A boat is a hole in the water that your pour money into

        • Lofty

          That’s why BOAT stands for “bring out another thousand”

          • Not at all related, but that reminds me of something a Landrover owner told me once:

            Landrover. Can drive anywhere except past a petrol station.

          • Sponge

            Too fucking right. I just got my wife a Disco and the fuel costs are astronomical (to be fair I knew this would be the case so no excuse but I was still shocked). I can’t wait to see what it is like when we go on holiday and are towing the fully loaded boat over the Takaka Hill.

          • Pissedoffyouth

            Two choices – thirsty V8 or couldn’t pull the skin off a rice pudding diesel.

            The V8’s when in manual aren’t overly bad apparently, much better ratios for both around town and open road

          • Sponge

            V8 for us. Trying to teach her to use the manual is a bridge too far I am afraid. I love her but really I should have just got her a Platz and upgraded my car to tow the boat.

            You live and learn…

          • Muffin

            Hilux manual diesel !

          • tarkwin

            My six cylinder petrol manual Landcruiser is truly frightening to fill up and it’s not very fast! My V8 Commodore is heaps cheaper to run, and I don’t drive like Russel Norman would want me too!

          • Muffin

            If it floats, flys or fucks, lease it!

    • James

      3 per person basically means that father & son fishing time becomes father, son, daughter and wife fishing time in order to ensure that we get enough fish for us for a week’s feed. Way to wreck a male bonding exercise.
      And fishing every day? Do you work? I’m up at 5:30, in work at 7:30 and home around 7pm as it is. Fishing every day may be fine for Labour’s demographic but not for National’s!

  • Agent BallSack

    How about targeting the PIs that take more than their fair share whenever they go out. Bet they contribute a lot to the problem.

    • Tom

      Agreed, I’ve never been checked by Mfish. I go out 20 -30 times a year, mainly in the Waitemata. How I’ve never come across them is beyond me, seeing as I live in Western Springs, work in Grey Lynn, and go through a dozen booze buses a year..

    • Pissedoffyouth

      On the Kaipara near the lagoon they always go in with wheelie bins and fill them up and take off – it’s pretty bad

    • I’ll do it my way

      In Waihau Bay at Christmas time all the boaties come down from Auckland and put there cray pots out, most pots can catch average of 10 crays
      one day I went to the shop and counted 80 pots in our little Bay then I went to the local dump site and found a large Kingi 7 crays 13 snapper and no PI’s in sight

  • conwaycaptain

    Let in the Labour/Greens and the limit will be 1

    • Nechtan

      But you won’t be allowed to use a hook or net as that is detrimental to the fish’s well being.

      • Sponge

        Or a motor to get there.

  • arlo

    Reminiscent of the time Muldoon brought in a 20% boat and caravan tax. In the name of fairness he wanted to force amateur boat builders to log the hours spent building boats in their own garages and pay tax accordingly. It lead to the bumper sticker “I’d rather Be sailing, but I voted National”, not hard to modify sailing to fishing.

    • LabTested

      fuk, I’m getting old that I remembered that! – Thanks

      • You’re right. When do you see a proper bumper these days?

    • Steve (North Shore)

      That’s why many homemade boats became repairs instead of new.
      Yeah I am showing my age as well lol

  • tarkwin

    I don’t mind dropping the limit to say six, but I would like to see commercial fishers banned from nursery areas like Bream Bay. If they made the area from Bream Head to Bream Tail including the Hen and Chicks and Whangarei Harbour commercial free it would do wonders for the fishing. At the moment the place is full of pilchard boats, long liners, ring netters and scallop boats who just strip the place. Imagine what a great recreational fishing area you would have, and it’s just up the road from Len’s socialist paradise!

    • LabTested

      it just pisses me off to see fish in the supermarket that are so small I would be ashamed to bring them back on the boat, let alone buy them

      • tarkwin

        Couldn’t agree more 320mm is the limit on our boat.

        • Nechtan

          Many fishermen have the same attitude, wish there were more though. If you have to measure it, its too small.

          • tarkwin

            Time for option4 to make a come back? Worked well last time.

          • Bunswalla

            I think it’s now become LegaSea http://www.legasea.co.nz

      • Stephen Aislabie

        I agree but most of those little 25cm fish that the Commercial sector are allowed sell is because the fish would be caught and would be dead and thrown back so as by catch. its better that it goes some way to their quota and in a sense that helps stock because the Com guys are not throwing as many dead fish back and then trying to make it up by catching larger ones to fill their quota. there is no point in upping the size limits for the commercial guys just upping the mess size of the nets or changing regs for longlining, either of those two things along would save fish for us all.

  • Greg Davis

    More fish for Peter Goodfellow’s industries.

  • Richbonn

    I’m a fishing nut!! Last year there was consideration to INCREASING the fish limit in the Hauraki Gulf due to the high numbers of fish in the area. The possible increase was considered due to the risk of “fish food” being devistated and having a greater long term impact on fish stocks etc. In prior years there have always been significant work ups of pilchards and bait fish. This year not so. If some common sense was applied then the last summer was an anomaly with wind, bait fish etc and fish caught. In saying that, the fisho’s I hang out with seem to go out with good charter operators and still come back with the limit. I fear that the reduction of quota will lead to fishermen “upsizing” there catch. This means that any fish caught and kept, may be throw overboard (dead) when a bigger/better fish is landed. The proposal is short sighted, it again compromises the ametur fisherman, not the commercial etc. Incidenatlly, I do not keep fish under 35cm.

    • LabTested

      well you sound like a real live person!

    • Mr_Blobby

      Up-sizing happens now.

      • Richbonn

        It does. But it will get a lot worse.

  • Ratchet

    Just e-mailed my local MP, asked him to make a few suggestions to Nathan Guy about leaving bag sizes alone and taking a harder look at the commercial rules.

    • David

      See

  • Mr_Blobby

    So customary rights are sacred and not to be touched and commercial if is touched will probably lead to compensation.

    Lets have a look at who is abusing the current system first and look at shutting that down.

  • Blue Tim

    Just like the blue cod issue in Marlborough

    • grumpy

      Nowhere near as bad as the blue cod issue in The Sounds. That is the stupidest, most self defeating regime any fuckwit “scientist” ever came up with.
      For those who don’t know (and be very afraid snapper fishermen). the limit is 2 fish – period!
      The 2 fish have to be between 30 – 35cm long. Everything else has to be thrown back. My mates and I are sick of having to throw back oversized fish, sometimes chucking back over half a dozen 40cm plus fish to get one in the 30 – 35cm band.
      Think of the survivability of the put back fish!!!! Science? Bullshit!!
      Coming to a snapper fishery near you.

  • cows4me

    Plenty big snapper here but we don’t have a million plus people living on the coast and sea conditions would make most on the east coast staying home.

  • rockape

    I will bet my bottom dollar that this doesnt happen. Its just one of several proposals going to the government one of which is to increase the recreational quota. Obviously the worst news is the one the press seize on.

    • grumpy

      Never thought the Marlborough blue cod regulations would happen either! We all thought them too stupid for words.
      Moral; never underestimate the stupidity of fisheries scientists or the politicians who know no better.

      • rockape

        Yes but there are a bucket load more Blue cod now. Round the corner in the Tasman bay we have plenty. I can give you a lat and long and guarantee every time a lure hits the bottom in 5 meters, you will get a keeper!

        • grumpy

          There always were plenty but these new regs are shit. The problem is that in Tasman Bay you can keep fish over 35cm, in the Sounds they have to be put back!

          • rockape

            Yes but I have seen a lot of research to say that the best fish to put back are the big breeders, that have a high chance of survival whereas the smalller fish have less chance of survival and less offspring. But yes the biggest waste is the bycatch that commercial fishers cant land.

    • The press haven;t seized on this yet, too busy inspecting their rectal cavities and wailing about their privacy…but when they do…

  • RAS

    All of this ignores the fact that rec fishermen have exceeded their quota by something like 50%. I’m all for stopping the commercial guys from upgrading and raising the min size but the fact remains that rec fisher are taking too many fish.

    • Nathan

      The “quota” is actually an allocation. This was set in 1996 when the population was much less and less people were fishing. If they upsized the fish people would be keeping less which would lead to the take from rec decreasing

      • Bunswalla

        Very difficult to establish the actual recreational catch – it’s all done by samples, anecdotal evidence and a shit-load of extrapolation. You only have to get one of the variables wrong and you’re hundreds of tons out – to be fair that could be either way.

  • rockape

    Marine reserves are the answer. In Tasman Bay we have two and its done greast things for the fish population. Same goes for mussel farms the food they offer the fish and the shelter they provide seems good for stocks.

    • Ratchet

      We’ve got a marine reserve here already, all around the Astrolabe reef.

      What shall we do with the drunken sailor? Give him a fucking container ship by all accounts…

  • Si

    It’s simple. Either there is a problem or there isn’t? If there is, cut the recreational and the commercial. If there isn’t, leave them both alone. But don’t cut one and leave the other. Madness.

  • blokeintakapuna

    Great topic. This will be a lightning rod/ bellwether issue for National.

    Being a keen as fisho, able to tell tall stories in a single breath, the biggest issues I see are the commercial guys high grading, selling Kawhai for 50 cents/kilo,p no where near enough FAD’s and not enough localised, smaller, marine reserves for the juveniles to breed effectively year after year.

    In the Gulf, making Rangitoto & Motutapu a “reserve” using the shipping lanes as the boundaries would still ensure local fisho’s could fish close by, but within 20 years, the entire fish stock would dramatically increase. As proven and demonstrated by Cousteou Jnr in other marine reserves overseas. A Reserve that close to Auckland CBD would not impact on any individuals ability to fish… But it would ensure better chances of catching as each year passes.

    • Bunswalla

      Couldn’t agree more re the kahawai – a hugely important fish in the food chain but of very limited value commercially. However greed drives so much human behaviour, and when the Government announced they were going to put kahawai into the quota management system it almost sounded the death knell.

      Quota is allocated on the basis of previous catch records, so a lot of commercial fishers started catching them by the ton. They sent up spotter planes to pinpoint where the (often enormous) schools were, and just scooped them up. What did they do with them? Ground them up whole into meal which was then sold to commercial cray fishermen as bait, at 50c/kg!

      For two or three years you struggled to get a kahawai of any size in the Bay of Plenty and I’m sure further north as well. The fishery has partially recovered but must’ve come close to being wiped out in one or two seasons – idiots.

      • disqus_QH0I5jvhI2

        Geez leweez you are a most unreliable source of correct facts. Yours is not the story of the kahawai commercial fishery coming into the QMS. Ground them up into meal for cray bait eh? Really?

  • jagilby

    You can currently catch 9 snapper every. day. of. the. year.
    That is a hell of a lot of fish for a “recreational” fisherman.
    I’m not saying 3 per day is the right number but 9 seems very high when you can then go out and get 9 again tomorrow. And the next day.

    Hyperbole from the likes of Deaker saying this will kill recreational fishing in New Zealand is frankly just ridiculous.

    • blokeintakapuna

      The only people who can go out “every day of the year” are those not working a full time job… Or the commercial guys fishing for a living. Then there’s the weather… Then the household chores… Then all other manner of house hold projects, family gatherings etc…

      So the premise most recreational fishos fish every weekend is a fallacy. They probably want to, but day to day realities prohibit it… If not the misses.

      • Bunswalla

        Jeez bloke, it’s like you’re reading my mind! The cost of getting your boat in the water, fuel, oil, servicing it plus the cost of gear and bait if you use it, means that very few people can go out every day or anything like it. Plus factor in the weather, spawning, tides etc and even the most dedicated fisho with unlimited means is going to struggle.

        The point is what you can do when you do get out, and having to go to all that trouble and come back with potentially a maximum of three 27cm fish per angler makes it a very marginal proposition. I’m not saying people fish for the money – I sure don’t and I shudder to think what my “per kilo of fillets” cost is – but if you make it even more uneconomical to go out you’re going to kill the industry. In that case it isn’t just the fishermen that suffer.

        • Sponge

          That reminds me of the time I took my dad into Lake Daniells in the Lewis Pass by chopper.

          He had taken me in there every year from when I was 8 (it used to be a 3 hour walk) until he had a heart attack in there with me when I was 15. The heart attack is another story and a few years later we started going in again but once he got to 70 he couldn’t do the walk anymore so we hired a chopper leaving from the Lewis Pass motels. The 3 hour walk took about 10 minutes.

          The fishing was shit but the company was good and we only caught 3 – apparently a virus had gone through the lake the previous year.

          Cost per kg of fish? About $900 all up. Value of trip? Priceless.

          It reminds me of Cameron’s post recently when taking his daughter hunting. Those sort of memories are the best thing a parent can give his kids. I now take my kids in there – I hope like hell I don’t have a heart attack in there like the old fella though!

          • Bunswalla

            Nice one.

      • Rusty B

        On ya Bloke:
        I think they (govt) have proffered 3 as a bag to stimulate chatter and it is happening, great.
        How about the bag being 6 and the size being increased from 27cm to 30cm.

  • Chris

    Or rather than seek information from the disturbingly ill informed and emotive rec fisher population, you might actually try speaking to a fisheries scientist who has a wider view than “I want to catch as many fish as I can”

    • Bunswalla

      Chris you’re the one that’s disturbingly ill-informed. There’s a huge amount of information on the subject here http://www.legasea.co.nz which you might find interesting – provided you’re prepared to learn and not just run off at the mouth.

      You may also be surprised to learn that the vast majority of recreational anglers in NZ stick to the rules and have a strong conservation streak. Most of us have great memories of fishing with our dads and other family members, and want to do the same with their kids and grandkids and so on. That’s part of the reason for the name LegaSea is a play on words – sure it’s about sea fishing but the main thing is to leave a legacy for the future.

      • disqus_QH0I5jvhI2

        Buns – you need to read the SNA 1 IPP then go back and objectively consider the LegaSea spin on it.

    • Sponge

      Are you by any chance a fisheries scientist with hurt feelings?

    • worksux

      Chris. I was at a Legasea meeting last night here in Hamilton. National MP David Bennett was asked the question, How does the Government get the figures of how many fish are caught and how many people go fishing. The answer was, They fly over the area and count the boats. Now that is fishery science at its best.

    • Philip

      Hi Chris – i am one of those ill informed emotive rec fishers but how bout you post your scientific evidence as well as your assumptions so we can all be as well informed as you are

  • Cossackstomper

    This is a stupid argument for National to get into , and Nathan guy appears to be politically in competent. Deaker last night was very revealing on Sky Tv. I would switch votes on this issue as well as Foreign investors buying our second hand housing market up. Lets look at the facts
    1) The fish stocks are increasing
    2) Colin Moyle said when he introduced the quota system that if there was any further pressure on fish stocks. The commercial fisheries must take the hit not NZ recreational fishers
    3) Over 1 Million people in NZ go fishing
    4) The Ministry of primary fuck ups met with the commercial fisherman 3 months ago. Have never bothered to meet with the recreational fishermen why?
    4) Peter Goodfellow president of the National Party has a 36% share in Sanfords fisheries who have a large share of the snapper quota in fisheries area 1. Is this a conflict of interest or what? None of the proposals include a reduction in quota to the commercial fishermen smells decidedly fishy or what.
    5)Why do none of the proposal include increasing the snapper size to 34 cms this would cut back the numbers taken considerably.
    National has to be very wary of pissing off the average Kiwi voter who switched to them. The Housing situation with Foreigners is one area that Labour will gain ground on .Shearer has already said he will reverse the decision on the snapper quota. National are not very astute at the moment im not sure who is giving them advice but he should go. When we read yesterday that a man was fined $400 for smacking his child on the bottom for throwing his toys across the room twice after he warned him not to. We see the sort of shit that came into being under Labour that Key had a chance to rectify with the Chester Burrows amendment and he did nothing about. People will not put up with this intrusion on their private lives for to long, and National will be gone next year if they continue to disenfranchise themselves from the voting public

    • disqus_QH0I5jvhI2

      Lets start by discarding the Colin Moyle thing – that did not and will not happen. That some recreational interests place so much importance on a few select words by one long-gone opportunist politician never cease to amaze me. So from your list #1 is a fact. # 2 is irrelevant. #3 might be correct #4 is an opinion and irrelevant in terms of the fishery management decision #5 is a risk to the stock abundance because of increased discard mortalities And I will add #6 – don’t mix the fishery management decision with your general dissatisfaction with a political party – SNA 1 will be around long after the next election.

      • cossackstomper

        Disqus
        I actually believe now by your defensiveness that you were involved in this stupid briefing to Nathan stroke my ego Guy. Well mate lets have a wee wager it aint going to happen. As the smarter people in National know they will be committing political suicide. In regards to your comments
        2) Did happen written in ink!
        3) Is a fact plus all the money they put into the economy
        4) Is a fact has 36% share in Sanfords. In terms of fishery management commercial allowance 450 tonnes. Recreational 50 tonnes . If you cut back on the 450 tonnes how the fuck isn’t that relevant!!!
        5) Is workable it would mean less goldfish sized snapper being sent off shore to Asian markets to be served whole in Chinese restaurants (ever been there mate)
        Mate go back to smoking the dope and plane spotting for recreational fishermen then factor it up by 1000 or what ever you do.

        • Kurrunulla

          Not me ‘mate” – I am definitely not part of Nathans team. But I despair for him and for his team when I read the nonsense you wrote. How many other political promises “written in ink” are you waiting to see come to some reality. The Cargo Cult still exists in remote parts of PNG: I did not expect it to be alive and well in New Zealand.

          • cossackstomper

            Notice you have changed your name from Disqus did you get caught out?

          • Kurrunulla

            If you know anything about the Disqus set up you know a user can select a name. I just updated my settings because I am into this argument now on a number off blogs and want to follow the responses as they come. Caught out doing what by the way – challenging the misinformation and ill informed commentary against commercial fishing? No problem with me having a say is there?? Let me know if there is and I will ignore you.

          • cossackstomper

            Heres the reality chump sort of blows your theory about it not being in writing out of the water suck on this tosser

            This right co-exists but is entirely
            different from the fishing rights commercial fishers have under the QMS which
            was introduced in 1986 to rein in an expanding commercial fishing industry and
            to rebuild and enhance our coastal fisheries for all New Zealanders.

            The Minister of Fisheries (the Minister):

            is required by Parliament in the Fisheries Act 1996 (the Act)
            to manage our fisheries to ensure sustainability which meeting the
            reasonably foreseeable needs of future generations – ‘fish come first’;

            in managing the use of our fisheries must conserve, use, enhance and develop our
            fisheries to enable New Zealanders to provide for their social, cultural
            and economic well-being;

            must ‘allow for’ the non-commercial right of New Zealanders to
            catch fish before the Minister sets or varies the total allowable commercial
            catch (TACC).

            To do that, the Minister must adhere to
            both the environmental and information principles in the Act, and use the wide
            range of fisheries management tools and mechanisms to make sure that there are
            plenty of fish for the needs of all New Zealanders.

            So what’s the problem with our fisheries then?

            It is widely considered,
            at least among non-commercial fishers, that when the QMS was introduced too
            much quota for too few fish was allocated to commercial fishers.

            On top of that more quota was allocated
            from decisions of the Quota Appeals Authority to commercial fishers unhappy
            with the allocation of quota they got from the Government.

            Since then commercial fishers have carried
            on fishing with ever improving and sophisticated bulk fishing methods. The
            commercial industry favours fisheries under pressure as the best conditions for bulk fishing, namely, fewer,
            vigorously growing, and as a consequence
            smaller fish never to reach middle age let alone old age.

            Meanwhile it is also widely acknowledged
            among non-commercial fishers that the quantity and quality of non-commercial
            fishers’ catch has diminished – fewer and smaller fish. This is having serious consequences with many New Zealanders who
            traditionally and culturally rely on the bounty of the sea for food, let alone
            adverse flow-on effects on the marine environment. For example, the talked
            about fall in the population of sea birds which rely on kahawai to drive bait
            fish to the surface to feed the sea birds.

            How does the Minister allow for my right to fish for food?

            Under the Act the Minister must ‘allow for’
            non-commercial fishing before setting or varying the TACC for commercial
            fishers.

            New Zealanders’ non-commercial public right
            to fish:

            is not quota under the Act, and must not and cannot be
            ‘allocated’ like commercial quota;

            must be ‘allow(ed) for’ before the TACC is fixed or
            varied, and in doing so achieve the sustainable use purpose of the Act
            including enabling New Zealanders to provide for their social, economic, and cultural well-being.

            The Act gives the Minister has a wide
            discretion and ability in the way the Minister ‘allow(s) for’ our
            non-commercial public right to fish depending on considerations
            such as population shifts and growth, social, cultural and economic considerations,
            the seasons, the weather, the rate of fish reproduction, and fish mortality
            whether naturally or as a result of fishing by both commercial and
            non-commercial fishers.

            One
            possible way of looking at it is that on the one hand the Minister balances enough
            fish left in the water for the future and avoid adverse effects on the aquatic
            environment, and on the other hand letting enough fish be caught to enable people
            to provide for their social, economic,
            and cultural well-being.

            The Minister is supposed to be taking these
            considerations into account, but in
            the case of kahawai the New Zealand Big Game Fishing Council (NZBGFC) and the
            New Zealand Recreational Fishing Council didn’t think he did. So they took the
            Minister to court over the way the Minister “allow(ed) for” the interests of
            non-commercial fishers when he set the TACC for kahawai.

  • Bryan

    well they are probally working on the average Kiwis track record to take very little notice of the law
    so we say catch three , know darn well they will sneek a few more so we could end up with average of 5 which is just under the realist target we were aiming for of 6 its amazing on those fishing shows how many caught have no idea what the quota is and size they are allowed to catch so they are probally working on “tell them half of what we really want and that’s for this year, and next year is election year so surprise the fish have multiplied so we can go back to 6

  • Paul

    John Banks should announce a counter to this and move all fisherman to Party vote Act.
    We take it this seriously

  • maninblack

    all i expect is fairness.. if they cut the recreational catch, then i expect them to cut the commercial catch the same percentage.
    This will do more damage to national than anything else as huge amounts of conservative voters are fishermen..

  • Wayne Greenwood

    Time to sort out the trawler guys who are killing up to maybe 700 to 1000 tonnes a year then leave them floating in the water..Never ever will I vote National again..
    asset sales,GCSB,Kim Dotcom.. the list goes on.This Government wants all of our fish to export …Vote them out next year folks

  • Daniel

    Larry Williams this afternoon on ZB put the record straight. Murray Deaker has given this topic a bit of a hiding. Just hot air.

    • Tayhei Notts

      Sea fishing is a great style of fun. I am not a fisherman and never ever owned a boat. But plenty of people whom I know use fishing as their primary form of relaxation. Plenty. And they are a group that only an incompetent politician would want to piss off. Their fishing is so important to them that they would have anybody in parliament, provided that they can go fishing.
      This is a serious matter for Nathan Guy’s party.

  • Greg

    If they go ahead with 3 only fish most fisherman will say get stuffed and flout the rules. There is no lack of fish but a stupid minister willing to wreak a recreational industry. But they will make the limit 6 and say they listen to us people of NZ……… thats BS.
    Petrol is now putting pressure on even being worth while going out so leave us be you arse holes…………….

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