Shearer and the Union’s World Leading Model for Education

pasifika-kids-1

David Shearer is prepared to continue to sell Maori and Pasifika children down the line to appease the teacher unions and desperately appeal for popular support.

How?

By having no ideas around education and stating that Charter Schools legislation will be repealed because it is a “failed model” overseas.

The unions are worried about $19million being spent on innovation.

They are also concerned that Charter Schools could be somewhat segregated.

Fairfax have just published their “school report” on the 2012 NCEA results.

A list of some details for ten South Auckland schools speak loudly enough to the above assertions:

School (decile)

NCEA Level 1 Failure

Roll (% European)

Taxpayer Funding

Otahuhu College (1)

59.7%

1348 (2)

$10m

Southern Cross Campus (1)

39.6%

1558 (1)

$12.2m

Aorere College (2)

41.5%

1508 (3)

$9.7m

Papatoetoe High School (3)

48.6%

1648 (3)

$11m

Mangare College (1)

47.5%

796 (1)

$6.6m

Tangaroa College (1)

45.2%

942 (1)

$7.3m

One Tree Hill (3)

56%

905 (8)

$5.8m

Onehunga High School (4)

48.7%

1315 (22)

$8.8m

Tamaki College (1)

73.6%

585 (4)

$5.3m

James Cook High School (1)

52.8%

1410 (5)

$10.4

Nationally 20%

i.e. massive segregation

$87.5million

This is what PPTA/NZEI are protecting. This is what they call “world class”. To say these children deserve difference and better is more obvious than T-Rex bollocks on a poodle.

Without doubt the teachers at these school have a tough, thankless job but if Mr Shearer is looking for failed models to close down…well…look no further.

Compared to the $19m exploring the opportunity to change some things is spitting into the hurricane with $87.5 million on just these 10 of 2,500 state schools.

Why did the unions and Labour not want this information public?

Why are the Left not advocating for 100s of Charter Schools in South Auckland? “Their people” need change. Labour are arrogantly relying on “their people” not working out what is really happening.

Why are the parents of these children not marching for change?

What is it about the continued failure of Maori and Pasifika children that is in the vested interest of the political Left?

Are zones for guaranteeing equitable provision or fencing groups in? These families have no choices and the funding of the schools relies on their captive audience.

These are massive questions that deserve an answer.

The MSM reporters who write on Education are complicit with the Left but to anyone else – the lack of support – and policy of repeal – is a scandal against the people Labour say they stand for. Shearer has no idea and Chris Hipkins and the unions have hung him out to dry on this.

 


THANK YOU for being a subscriber. Because of you Whaleoil is going from strength to strength. It is a little known fact that Whaleoil subscribers are better in bed, good looking and highly intelligent. Sometimes all at once! Please Click Here Now to subscribe to an ad-free Whaleoil.

  • Fat Fatty Boomsticks

    If Tamaki College is in “South Auckland”, so is most of Remuera. I wouldn’t call One Tree Hill or Onehunga “South Auckland” either.

    • GazzW

      I literally live on the zone borders for One Tree Hill College, Auckland Grammar and Onehunga High. The most common school uniforms seen around my neighbourhood are Diocesan, St Kents, Kings & Baradene. Grammar is an impossibility for out of zoners and honky kids don’t go to Onehunga or One Tree Hill.

      • Fat Fatty Boomsticks

        I’m not sure what you mean? Are you saying that Onehunga and OTH are full of out-of-zone students?

        • GazzW

          Not at all. I’m saying that the majority of in-zone white (& Asian) kids don’t go to those schools. Their parents choose to send them private or rapidly re-adopt their Catholic beliefs. I would venture to suggest that Onehunga’s slightly higher European attendance is only due to it’s business faculty that was put in place by corporate interests on what could be decribed as a charter school process.

          • Fat Fatty Boomsticks

            Oh, OK. I think we’re on different pages perhaps. All I was meaning was that it’s pretty shonky to slap a “South Auckland” label when three of those schools aren’t in South Auckland…

          • James

            Isn’t anywhere south of the bridge South Auckland? ;-)

          • Fat Fatty Boomsticks

            Ha, sure, if you mean Mangere Bridge!

          • Former OHS Boy

            I’m a former OHS boy (1990) and at that time at least the enrollment zone was effeminately not reflective of the area around it. Including Mangere Bridge from the other side of the Manukau through to Te Rapa and then a small slither of area around the school itself.

            When I first started there the school population was roughly 50% European, 30% Maori and 10% Asian and 10% Other. When I left 4 years later in 6th form the demographics were already changing.

            A large part of the issue was driven by funding decisions where the school was able to gain more funding through initiatives like building a Marae onsite or allowing students from out of the school zone attend which brought in additional funding amounts.

            Unfortunately this change in demographic caused various conflict within the school population to the point that not only there became effectively “no go zones” for European students but also open fighting on the sports fields between various race groups during lunch time that a permanent teacher presence became required there during lunch time.

            Based on the incident in 2005 where the school principle was assaulted by an outside gang students who had come looking for a member(s) of a rival gang it was clear that the OHS that 3 generations of my family had attended was gone.

      • CheesyEarWax

        I live in the OHS zone and totally agree, but I do hope this will change in next 10 years.

        • GazzW

          Don’t hold your breath. For a good dose of reality take yourself to the bus terminal by the Onehunga library about 3.30pm on a school day. Overweight teenage boys swigging two litre bottles of Coke, girls swearing and smoking – they’re a disgrace to their dishevelled OHS uniforms.

  • Quintin Hogg

    What the teaching Unions do not want is the ability to compare outcomes at schools, which is a neat little part of the school report.
    And strangely enough I just did that.

  • GazzW

    Can I throw a wild card into the mix? Sorry I don’t have access to the same set of stats but the figures will speak for themselves.

    McAuley High School, Otahuhu. Decile 1. Roll 690. 73.6% pass at NCEA Level 3. 77% of pupils stay at school until Year 13.

    It’s the current closest thing that we have to a charter school being a Catholic integrated college. You have to ask yourself what McAuley is doing that other South Auckland schools aren’t. Could it be because it’s not co-ed? Could it be because of the Catholic ethos? Whatever it is they are doing a lot of things that other colleges could learn from.

    • Catholic or church –> moral and ethical teaching. Single sex –> no distractions. There is a reason why the single sex grammars also have a high reputation

    • AngryTory

      It’s because the parents have to take personal responsibility and pay to educate their own children.

      • GazzW

        Hardly onerous at $190 per term.

        • Anonthemouser

          ah but that $190 is the huge difference – whether a parent cares enough to pay or whinges about paying a meagre amount and reflects directly on their child’s educational outcome

        • Teachersrock

          Says someone who does not have to struggle for money.

          • rockape

            Yes $3 a week for kids education or $20 a week for SKY. The trouble is kids and parents and most on this site HAVE LOST FAITH IN THE EDUCATION SYSTEM AND TEACHERS! Thats why teachers need to lift their game, they are viewed as the problem,not the solution to kids education.

          • Teachersrock

            Most on this site have their heads up their arse and think they know more than the actual experts.

            NZ = amazing teachers some of the best in the world
            NZ = amazing education system, one of the best in the world.
            Teacher haters on WO = heads up arse ideologically driven nutters.

            Just stating facts is all.

          • LabTested

            OK. if you are just stating the facts, give us the numbers that prove the results for these 10 schools prove we have one of the best education systems in the world. Facts please & verifiable

          • mike

            Teachersrock… the data set above doesn’t agree with your statement.

          • Teachersrock

            Because 10 schools in the HS sector out of the 1000’s upon 1000’s of schools have issues?

            You run with that.

          • mike

            No because the data set is indicative of the whole state of the current system… you know sort of like a survey, you don’t ask everyone you gather a sample.

            Aren’t you a teacher… shouldn’t you know this?

          • rockape

            And where may I ask did you acquire your knowledge. Teachers are failing wherever I look, that’s why the Government and most parents and employers are so concerned. It’s the likes of you that have your head up your arse,failing our kids and refusing to recognize there is something wrong.

          • Teachersrock

            Wrong, You see teachers failing because you have been told so by National.

            Truth is otherwise.

          • Anonthemouser

            Are you seriously telling me that as a teacher you would not agree with the statement that the biggest guide as to how a child does at school is how much the parent cares about their education.

          • Teachersrock

            I agree that kids do as well as the parents and teachers care. And as they get older as they themselves care.

            The teacher haters on here (who I must say do not reflect real people in the real world) are desperate to blame EVERYTHING on the teachers. They hate teachers that much they ignore the fact that parents have to value education in order for the kids to succeed. Which is why I said the biggest issue with kids failing are parents.

            But the teacher haters on here do not want to hear that. They hate teachers and want to attack, frothing with nonsense and right wing idiocy.

          • mike

            I’m not a real person am I? I disagree… I’m a step father of a 12 year old boy who is behind in maths, reading, writing and spelling (you know the important things).

            I come home from work each day and go through his homework and help him out.

            I care a lot more than a lot of the NZEI indoctrinated teachers out there going through the motions collecting their inflated pay cheques.

            He is failing because the system is flawed. I love National Standards because it puts in plain English where he stands and where he needs help.

            I hate the fact teachers are not held accountable for the ineptitude… and don’t you dare tell me there aren’t inept teachers out there.

            The biggest issue with the current state of failure in our state education system is the teachers unions, who have got their heads so far up their arses they can’t see the problems they’ve created.

          • Teachersrock

            I see you drank the kool aid.

            Oh and NS are a joke, and if you did not understand how your kids were doing beforehand then, sorry that was your own fault for not asking questions and more and more.

          • mike

            I see you aren’t interested in a real debate.

            What’s wrong with having a set of measurements against which we can judge the performance of people?

          • Teachersrock

            Nothing at all. However to suggest as NS do that if you are not at point X by year Y you are below is plain stupid.

            Everyone learns at different rates, some get there in the end, then take off, others get there fast, then slow down. Some have home issues, health issues etc… None of which are taken into account when using NS. Also considering the assessment of students against these so called standards is no where near standard, they are a joke. And please tell me what the NS have shown us we did not already know or track?

            As for plain English, if as a parent, you did not ask questions when you did not understand something in regards to your kids progress, then it is your fault you did not have a clear picture. Ask questions, otherwise do not complain you did not know.

            The NZC is a FAR more accurate reflection of correct assessment. It has the understanding that levels overlap, that progression moves differently for each child. No it does not mean you cannot identify kids in need, you can. An assessment that takes into account the learning style of a child is more accurate than a set point in time or your a failure style assessment.

  • As a person who went to Papatoetoe High (like Goff and Shearer) what in the name of the Dawkins (the progressives fav. Ikon) happened to my old school? I’m pretty sure we got a HIGHER percentage through SCHOOL CERTIFICATE even though 50% would “fail” each subject when I went there.

    NCEA is a rabid dog. Take it out the back and use a .308

    • Fat Fatty Boomsticks

      I’m ex Pap High too, still in contact with a lot of students / families in the area, but sadly it’s reputation has dropped considerably. A lot of people would rather send their kids to Manurewa High (which seems to be on the up-and-up)

  • blokeintakapuna

    If only Murdoch would attack the NZ version of Rudd – using this evidence…
    Teacher unions… the pox posing as the cure…

  • SJ00

    Holy shit, good to see some numbers, but those results are disgusting to say the least. Lets have a 20/20 or 60 minutes show or whatever on the current state of these schools. Get the unions on to explain these figures. If they can.

  • Ducky

    The left wants NZ children to be mindless gobs so that they will grow up to be dependants of the state welfare, so vote Labour to keep getting continued handouts.
    They have no interest in our kids getting the right education as knowledge means they can be self sufficient and successful, which means they wont vote Labour.

    • rockape

      I thought you were going to say they wanted children to be mindless gobs so they can grow up to be Labour MPs

  • Macquarie Jack

    One of the things you will not hear about Charter schools is that in Western Australia about 2/3 of the schools there are Charter Schools. At least that’s what I have read. And it also appears that these schools are doing a very good job. But you won’t read about them in the left-wing press in NZ. I’m surprise that nobody has done some investigative journalism to find out about these schools. Or are too many journalists frightened to offend the Labourites and the Greens?

    • LesterPK

      Not really charter schools in WA, a lot of schools are becoming independant public schools though. Same school, same curriculum but more control at a local level rather than done by a centralised system. IPS can hire their own principal and teachers via the board, otherwise principals and teachers are appointed by the government department. Think of it as tomorrows schools as done in NZ years ago, a board made up of locals and parents with the power to set their own budgets, and hire the staff they want.

  • Col

    All I will say is this, some teachers go to school too teach, some people go to work as teaches. The sooner schools need to perform and charter schools come on line the better, teaches are not accountable!!!
    In business there is the 20/80 rule, so be it at schools, 20% do the work the other 80% are there to fill in the gaps.

  • johnbronkhorst

    “because it is a “failed model” overseas.”
    They keep repeating the blatant lie.
    many studies confirm that “charter schools” out perform state schools!!!

  • Michael

    There seems to be a strong correlation between spending less per student and higher NCEA results. Compare what Wellington College/Auckland Grammar/Any top NCEA school get per student versus these schools.

    And there is a reason why Catholicism is now the biggest Christian Church in NZ…

    • Steve

      Of the data supplied Tamaki College receives
      the most funding per student and has (by far) the worst educational results.
      Aorere College receives 40% less per student and has 77% better pass/failure
      rate….

  • Patrick

    Tamaki College 74% failure rate, my god sending your kid there is a life sentence.

  • snakebit

    Can somone please explain to me what they do with teachers at uni to make so many of them so progressive?

    • johnbronkhorst

      Removal of the rational portion of their brain?

      • snakebit

        But what do they have against classic literature and learning geography (as in where places are) ……the few times ive discussed it with teachers they get very touchy about it? Could just be me.

        • johnbronkhorst

          They get touchy, because they don’t understand the words “classic literature” or “geography” let alone what to do about teaching the actual subject!

          as for (as in where places are)…they don’t know where they are, so how do you expect them to know where ANYWHERE else might be!
          EDIT: but I bet, they can quote the union rules and regs, chapter and verse!!!!

          • mike

            Can’t blame all teachers, I’ve met a few who hate the union… but if they want a job they have to become a member.

            They try to do their best but the system the union has put in place stifles innovation and hard work, so these teachers either give up on public schools and go overseas or private… or they just give up and become part of that system.

        • Teachersrock

          Unless you are going to be a High School teacher then that is basically worthless.

          Basic geography is piss easy to teach, and it is a tad more than just where somewhere is. But as for the rest, as I said, unless you are going to teach it as a subject and become a HS teacher = worthless.

          • snakebit

            The classics are living books. They inspire and expose kids to character and virtue. They are written by brilliant people and are always worth studying….very traditional though so I wouldnt expect progressives to see the value.

          • Teachersrock

            They have value. Once you can actually read and have developed comprehension skills. Otherwise worthless to your average 5 year old.

          • mike

            Geography is basically worthless? Yeah who needs to know where Auckland, Wellington or Christchurch is… let alone find the UK or USA on a map.

            Damn you make teachers look arrogant!

          • Teachersrock

            Careful, unless it is traditional reading writing or maths tis against the right wing agenda to teach it.

            And basic stuff like that is not geography. That is just basic knowledge. As I said above, geography is more than just where somewhere is.

            And you think I really care if you have a negative view of me and teachers?? That boat sailed a very long time ago. God himself could come down and say to your face kiwi teachers are some of the best in the world and you would call him a liar.

    • cows4me

      Obviously the tutors are the key suspects. Leftism/ Marxism is a disease and it’s key breeding ground are the universities and training colleges. The left know that their ideology is full of shit and any free thinking individual soon works this out. The only way the left can advance is through education as young minds can be fooled to except their crap and pass their poison on to others, why do you think the left guards education so jealously. If they lose the ability to screw up young minds it’s all over red rover for the pricks.

      • johnbronkhorst

        Good thing we made student union membership voluntary then, isn’t it!

      • snakebit

        They have the education system and the media then…not good.

      • Teachersrock

        Talk to many Uni tutors have you?

        Going by your ignorant post I would say not.

        • mike

          When I went to Uni I did…

          • Teachersrock

            Good for you.

  • rockape

    Let there bo no doubt. The PPTA is not about the kids,its about the teachers,teachers who want to do less for more,want a job for life regardless of their performance and this will never change . The sooner we get charter schools in the better,performance will be rewarded failure will mean dismissal. Kids will once more be put at the forefront of the education system.

    • Teachersrock

      Enjoy CS while you can. Once Labour comes to power they are gone.

      • snakebit

        Thats a pretty big if.
        Charter schools are the future, the public will choose and the govt will do as they are told.

        • Teachersrock

          Labour have made it clear CS are gone when they come to power next year.

          See ya later failed experiment on kiwi kids used to buy John Banks’s vote.

          • johnbronkhorst

            they will need the maori party to govern. Who are supporting CS right to the end.
            So repeal of the CS’s will be impossible, even if they get in!!!

          • Teachersrock

            No they won’t

            Good chance the MP may not even be there.

          • Teachersrock

            I see you did not like that nugget of truth John. Down voting ahhh how cute.

          • GazzW

            You’re getting bitchy again TR.

          • Teachersrock

            Not at all. I find it cute when the idiots have nothing left but the down vote. It is so amusing.

          • Ducky

            ha ha ha ha , more Tui from the fridge… gosh I must be pissed either from reading this dribble or what?…anyway.. more Tui..

          • rockape

            Last time I looked the Maori party would get a couple of seats and NZ first none!

          • Teachersrock

            Funny, many counted Winston out at the last election.

            Silly people.

          • mike

            Do you perhaps mean the PM? Not a good advertisement for the education system… lol!

          • rockape

            Do you realy believe Labour has made the changes to be more electable now than they were in 2011. I think you just believe that National will struggle because its 3rd term. Well smell the coffee, Kiwis are glad to at last have a government that listens, listens to the Majority, not, just minority interest groups. They are glad to have a Government that does things, not like Labour that just talks about doing things! Thats why National will Govern alone in 2014. Labour and the Greens combined; a toxic mix that the electorate will run from come voting day.

          • Teachersrock

            Remember that when Key is out of a job next year.

          • Ducky

            Wow, such prophetic words…

          • mike

            Which is a brilliant statement to make in opposition when they haven’t even seen how well they perform… would Labour shut down a charter school in a decile 1 area which is successfully churning out NCEA level 2 students by the bucket load? That is political suicide.

          • Teachersrock

            They will simply make them state schools who must be accountable as opposed to doing as they please and answering to no one.

          • mike

            So they will nationalise private companies? Yeah that’ll go down a treat won’t it.

          • mike

            Charter schools will be more accountable… but to the people who matter, the students and their parents.

          • rockape

            But then the good teachers would leave and we would be left with the dross again and back to studying failure.

          • Teachersrock

            Given that most of kiwi teachers are amazing, your fears are only in your head.

      • rockape

        Labour are already gone! Didnt anyone tell you TR. Not only that but they would never face the wrath of all those Pacific Islanders who will benefit from their kids in schools that try to make a change rather than just keeping the teachers line of “NZ has a first class education System ” so dont worry your kids cant read. I have seen and worked with kids in Vanuatu, Fiji and seen kids throughout the Pacific. Children all highly motivated,then you look at NZ and those kids have no interest,teachers get your act together or watch charter Schools leave you in their wake.

        • Teachersrock

          CS’s will be gone just like National.

          • Well, no.

            The current Labour party could not organize a pissup in a Brewery, the Greens have policies that will bankrupt us, and NZ First will die when Winston has to retire. If Sheep wants to be PM, supporting charter schools (Call it the swedish model if you want to) and family choice for the less well off & he will get votes. He might as well nobble the unions, because they are now so far out of touch with NZers — the vast majority are not unionized — that they act as an impediment on the left.

  • Miguel

    Concerning teachers, I suspect more than a few have become teachers because they found few other options in the workforce. Not most, but more than a few, I suspect. This might explain some of the self-preserving behaviour we see.

    Concerning teacher education, it’s just struck me (and I might be going out on a limb here), that it appears similar to another bugbear of mine: midwifery. They both seem to be women dominated, gaia-embracing…and soft-brained and with dire outcomes in more than just a few isolated cases.

    Concerning poor school outcomes, I used to blame the teachers/unions more (per the above), but I’ve also come to the view that a lot of teachers, especially in the schools mentioned in this article, are fighting an uphill battle trying to educate the poor kids from drop-kick parents. I just wish the union would be more straight-up about it: we oppose performance pay, because retarded parents and home lives will mean teacher X gets no bonus despite trying to work miracles.

    • kehua

      The problem for Performance Pay in this Industry is the Teachers of `home and 2 parent educated ` students probably need to put less effort into educating these students than the poor bugger with 5 Nationalities of unsupported, single(or multi) parented students with little or no social or literary skills . I see a need for `Tactical Teaching Units` employed directly by the Ministry who are injected into the poorer performing schools to work alongside teachers in critical areas giving support, discipline and confidence in the learning environment in these schools.

      • rockape

        Performance doesnt need to be on final result. It can be analysed on Improvement added by the teacher to each student. ie if a kid starts at a certain assessed level in a particular school what should he achieve 6 months later.

  • Dave

    The figures are appalling, The NZEI should be ashamed of this, as should the maori and PI communities.

    The more interesting POINT, is the level of FUNDING given to the under achieving schools, the numbers above, at a quick glance, well, F…. M… Even one of those Level 1 NCEA failures can follow the numbers, the lower the concentration (%) of european, and higher failure rate, the more funding they get to continue FAILING.

    Please, someone lob a grenade in to them, open charter schools around the corner, no doubt cheaper and more effective at that rate.

    • Teachersrock

      How is it NZEI’s fault for the performance of High Schools when they are the union for the Primary schools?

      How is it the fault of any union? Surely after all the work teachers have done the teenagers have to want to study, want to put in the work and want to pass, and the parents of these teens have to be positively involved in their education. So how is it the unions fault some teenagers and some families do not care?

      • johnbronkhorst

        Yes and the 2ndary teachers have been complaining for decades that kids can’t read and are ill prepared for high school!!!

        • Teachersrock

          Which is simply untrue in almost all cases.

          The problem is the disconnect between how primary teachers teach and how HS teachers lecture, as opposed to teach.

          • johnbronkhorst

            BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
            UTTER BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          • Teachersrock

            Yes I know you are spouting bullshit. No need to tell us.

          • Ducky

            sorry teachers cannot teachas they are delinquents themselves , teachers cannot HANDLE THE TRUTH!, they can only get indoctrinated.

          • Teachersrock

            Your lot would not know the truth if it bit them on the arse.

          • cows4me

            Primary teachers don’t learn, it’s called indoctrination.

          • Teachersrock

            Telling lies again I see cows.

            Hope you home school, otherwise your just another 2 faced hypocrite.

          • mike

            It’s “you’re” not “your”.

            I hope you are not an English teacher!

          • Bafacu

            Are you sure that Primary School teachers teach and HS teachers lecture?
            If so then you have a problem that is now being felt by us all. At 13-14 years of age when children start attending HS they need dedicated teachers/leaders not bloody lecturers. How is this world leading?
            If you are correct it needs to be changed – NOW

          • Teachersrock

            I have zero complaints to overhauling the HS system and how kids are taught at that level.

            If they were more like the Primary/Intermediate levels things would be better for the kids.

      • johnbronkhorst

        The unions have gone on strike and threatened strikes to get what they want in education for decades. The problem is successive govt.s have backed down. Instead of fighting them!!!
        The union only wants to keep it’s power base, it has NO interest in the well being of the kids. Otherwise it would support the “WELL DOCUMENTED” success of charter schools around the world. instead of telling blatant lies about them!!!

        • Teachersrock

          There is more than enough world wide documented evidence the CS’s are failures. And most of the “good” CS have hand picked their kids to ensure the best results.

          NZ has one of the best systems in the world, but National needed Banks’s vote so they sold our kids down the river.

          • cows4me

            Surely if CS are such crap the unions should be welcoming their establishment . According to your good self they will be dismal failures and the unions can say “told you so” then re-establish their rolls. But that’s not how it works is it, you’re afraid the jig is up and your hold on education will be over.

          • Teachersrock

            Why welcome somthing that will harm kids?

            What a stupid thing to suggest.

          • mike

            “Something” not “somthing”… I know it’s a bit pedantic but hey you are the spokesperson for teachers on this site, and you aren’t doing a very good job thus far.

            Pick up your game TR!

          • Teachersrock

            Yawn.

          • mike

            I suggest using a spell check… all web browsers have them. Proper spelling and grammar is paramount to a reasoned discourse.

          • Teachersrock

            LOL, one can speak beautifully and still spout nonsense. Anyone who is swayed by the presentation and not the content is a fool.

          • mike

            You need both to be taken seriously… and you are not doing very well in either department at the moment.

          • Teachersrock

            You lot will never take the word of ANYONE in education seriously even though we know a lot more about the subject than you lot.

            You have appointed yourselves experts despite having not a lick of actual understanding beyond your political views.

            Oh and the fact that you hint at not taking me seriously warms my heart. I would worry if your lot agreed with me.

          • mike

            Anyone else remember the blog WO put up the other day… from an veteran educator in Auckland, you know the guy who wants to open a Charter School but received a bully boy letter from the PPTA?

            I listened to him because his was a voice of reason.

            And who is in a better position to judge the public education system; the teachers who have a vested interest in the status quo or the parents of the children who go to those public schools and who are not happy with the status quo?

          • johnbronkhorst

            Bull!!!
            Start with the university of Washington report into charter schools and IF (and I know it’s big if for you) you understand it, move on to the Stanford University study.
            Both extensive studies by world respected universities (not the half baked cherry picked bogus averages the PPTA threw(dreamed) up!!).
            Both concluding that charter schools out perform state schools and that they are also faster to improve their outcomes, due to their operational flexibility!!!

          • Teachersrock

            And many many many more studies which say otherwise.

            NZ should NEVER do anything the US does. NEVER.

          • LabTested

            vote?
            drive cars?
            develop new technologies?

            yes anything the US does should be banned in NZ. Sorry, but your North Korea is showing

          • Ducky

            where do you think yeachers come from?… Fairy godmothers of course..

          • snakebit

            Agree….we should be more like Texas.

          • Teachersrock

            Good lord no.

          • Ducky

            yes, the US is the enemy here…

          • Teachersrock

            When it comes to education yes, even the American visiting education experts tell us do not copy america, the nonsense the governments have put in place have ruined our education system. Do not let your current government do the same.

            But then I am sure all of you non teachers know better than the actual experts.

          • mike

            You mean the US teachers unions representatives… yeah no bias there.

          • Teachersrock

            No sonny. But I am not surprised that is where you jump to.

            And if you think, given the US education rankings, we should copy them, you are a bigger fool than I thought.

          • mike

            Did I say emulate the US education system? No I did not… I advocate that we take every opportunity to improve our system, and if charter schools do that then we should embrace them.

            I don’t give a shit about the feelings of teachers, I care about the students.

          • Teachersrock

            If you really cared about the kids you would listen to the experts. But you do not.

          • johnbronkhorst

            Name them.
            Put the links or at least the titles, on here so we can benefit from reading them??
            You can’t, because they don’t exist!!
            I have named only 2 of the comprehensive reports into charter school performance!
            As for not following the USA, why then do the PPTA try to use the cherry picked and bogus averages from…..the USA?

          • rockape

            Look at the results above: thats selling kids down the river.

          • Teachersrock

            Water, horse, lead, drink

            Not that you haters will accept that because then you cannot attack teachers. I thought you right wing nutters were all about personal responsibility.

          • rockape

            To some extent, but were you fail is the Lead bit, if you had some leadership the kids would be inspired to learn.

          • Teachersrock

            And NZ teachers are some of the best in the world for inspiring kids to learn.

            But given all your posts on here, I know you will say otherwise. Spout the party line sonny, lets have it.

          • rockape

            NZ teachers ,by what standard do you judge them some of the best in the world? Have you taught in the UK, in Europe, come to think of it have you ever taught? Judging from the calibre of your argument I hope if you did it was to under 5s. Mind you calling me sonny at the age 657 shows how little respect you have for others so just as well you dont deal with adults.

          • Teachersrock

            Did you not see WO’s command in another thread?

            Respect is earned not demanded.And you and your kind will never get my respect given your poorly informed damaging thoughts about education. Espically given sonny you and your lot have never taught kids yet think you know better.

          • Ducky

            Ha ha , time for a Tui…

          • mike

            Rubbish… look at the latest Stanford study.

          • Teachersrock

            Down the river.

          • mike

            Down the river… what does that even mean?

          • Teachersrock

            Just what I said. Someone as clever as you should be able to figure it out.

          • mike

            It is a nonsensical statement.

          • Teachersrock

            Not as clever as I gave you credit for.

            Oh well.

          • mike

            Down the river could mean anything to someone like you… hence why I asked you to clarify your statement, your reluctance to do so speaks volumes about your desire to have a reasoned conversation about this issue.

          • Teachersrock

            Given how unreasoned your lot are I expect no reasoned conversation from you.

            Just right wing kool aid.

          • mike

            We seem to be more rational then you.

          • Teachersrock

            Only in right wing nutter land.

          • References, sweetie. “World wide docmented evidence” without links or citations == total lack of same.

      • rockape

        You dont believe that what is taught in Primary schools affects kids performance later? Ithought it was all about starting young! Are you sure you are a teacher?

        • Teachersrock

          HS does strange things to kids. I have seen straight A students crash and burn in HS, discover sex, drugs, booze, parties, and it all goes out the window.

          We can only give them the tools, what they do with them is up to them.

          • rockape

            That is the reason teacher are so bad. Too weak to accept responsibility,too weak to help the kids. Just turn up stand in the class and walk away. Its obvious why you dont want assessment, you would fail!

          • Teachersrock

            Sigh, you do enjoy spouting lies and propaganda don’t you.

            But then, given who you politically support that is no surprise.

  • Allan

    Seriously what the fuck!
    The parents of these kids need to seriously lift their game, make learning a fucking priority then the teachers might have a chance to actually get something to stick between their ears!

    sadly though I have very little faith in the coming generations

    • Teachersrock

      And that’s the thing, All the hate the teacher haters on here spew and they forget to actually consider the truth… parents are the biggest problem followed by the attitude of the high school students themselves.

      But why would the teacher haters let that get in the way of a good rant.

      • cows4me

        The parents are the biggest problem, jolly joker. For years teachers have heralded liberal policy as the way to go, may I humbly suggest your love of liberal policy has come back to bit you on the butt.

        • Teachersrock

          Nope not at all.

          Where you have major issues with kids there is normally only 2 reasons. There is something wrong with the kids, or the parents.

          But the teacher haters on here do hate facts that show them up as fools, so I do not expect any of your lot to agree with the truth.

          • rockape

            I guess that shows you are a kid hater, you shouldnt be in the profesion if you cant accept responsibility.

          • Teachersrock

            No it shows I live in the real world, not the right wing raving nutter world where teachers are evil.

            Time to take your meds and get a grip.

          • rockape

            hows your Labour government looking now post Cambell. Dont think those Charter Schools need worry now!

        • Ducky

          Totally agree!. They take away discipline,they take away parents right to discipline, now these kids grow up knowing NOBODY can touch them (except peodophiles) so they are scared of no one NOT even the law, so it is not the parents fault, IT IS the TEACHERS FAULT! . They brought in their Liberal thinking attitude and forced the changed of laws thru’ their buddy Labour govt.,about human rights, children’s right, anti smacking rules, and now it has come to fruition and today it has come back to bite them,. Hooray .

      • rockape

        another brick in the wall ! If teachers have no influence and cant inspire their students they should be replaced with a DVD and we could save a stash. My teachers inspired me and my siblings thats why we all did well. 48 years since I left school, I still remember most of their names. Its the dross that are around now that are the problem. Its not all ,but quite a few that are there to do the minimum in the safe knowledge that the Union will make sure they pick up the cheque each month no matter how bad their performance; those days are numbered!

        • Teachersrock

          Ahh yes, no matter what the truth and facts are it will always be the fault of the teachers in the eyes of the haters.

          The same haters who are not teachers, not experts, yet think they know better. How typical.

        • johnbronkhorst

          Confucious: “No bad students, only bad teachers”

          • Teachersrock

            Which is pure nonsense. But teacher haters need to keep pushing that.

  • AngryTory

    Almost every state secondary school in the UK is a charter school, as David Cameron struggles to undo the damage of the Blair/Brown years.

    The plain fact is that – all over the world, and now even in the “welfare west” communism is being demolished and replaced by freedom. State health and education monopolies

    If the NZEI & PPTA had any sense, they’d be supporting charter schools with all their might – because the only other choice is privatisation. In Sydney today 50% of school places (around 60% of schools) are private. If they really want to work only in slum schools for slum kids (which is absolutely fine with me) then they should go ahead.

    • Dave

      Agree with your comments re Public / Private schools in Sydney AT My kids went to high school in Sydney, but we fluked a really good state school and they thrived. However, the elite private schools and the Catholic schools do account for a large percentage if all Sydney schools. Then there are another class of State Funded schools known as Selective state high Schools

27%