Cunliffe lies on Tax

David Cunliffe is becoming something of a liar in his quest to lurch left.

In the Q+A debate he stated:

DAVID I’d raise the top tax rate, and I would also bring in a capital gains tax. And I would also close tax evasion and avoidance loopholes. Of the hundred wealthiest New Zealanders, the IRD says less than half of them are even paying the top tax rate.
What we did last time round was 39 cents with a pretty high threshold of $150,000, so we weren’t hitting middle New Zealand. We had a top rate for the wealthiest. We’ve got to be very careful to make sure that the trust rate is at or close to the top marginal personal rate, because we don’t want to create an avoidance-

This is a lie. 

Helen Clark and Michael Cullen put a 39% tax on what they described as the top 5% of income earners…they set the threshold at $60,000, not as Cunliffe claims at $150,000.

Will the media please pull this liar up on this? Unlikely, I’d say.

Grant Robertson is also proposing to whack people with higher taxes.

GRANT I’m completely committed to having a fair tax system where people do pay their fair share, and I think the top rate can go up to the 39 cents. But in the end, taxation’s only part of the picture. Capital gains tax, sure, but we have to make sure that the economy’s growing right across New Zealand, not being driven by speculators in Auckland and not relying on an earthquake recovery. It’s got to be proper economic development.

John Key must be loving this…I mean reeeeeeally loving this. Labour will be going into an election proposing a raft of new and complex taxes…good luck with that.


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  • kevin

    More shit from the TAX PARTY aka labour…

    • Positan

      Well, as a self-only-interested congregation of the politically ambitious but mentally inert, they don’t really have any capability to develop such things as workable or practical ideas.

  • blokeintakapuna

    When bereft of ideas, credible or otherwise – tax, tax, tax… populist rhetoric, populist sound bites to the target audience – which might even appear to be “very popular” during a Labour Party function.
    What the pretender contenders aren’t aware of though – is that even with dozens of union members transported to your function by the union stewards – it’s still only a tiny minority portion of all of NZ.
    …but thanks for the entertainment Labour Party. Haven’t seen so many clowns trying to be the ring leader since Cirque du soleil was in town.. but even then, the clowns knew what they were doing and they were polished… and people wanted to see them…

  • mark

    A couple of points. Firstly if they raise the top tax rate to 39% and the trust rate to similar, what are they going to do with the company tax rate, because if you don’t move that you have a similar avoidance mechanism.
    Secondly, and what I thought is far more troubling, was the talk of linking the OCR with the unemployment rate. This combine with “living wages” but what can only be assumed as a whole raft of new “fair” labor laws will not only increase unemployment but also the “stickiness” of that number meaning protracted low interest rates even in times of higher inflation. The result being Labour screws the very people they profess to help.

    • unitedtribes

      And with artificial low interest rates higher house prices

  • Time For Accountability

    If Cunnlife did not know the $60k threshold I would guess he was not paying it.
    The only way would have been negative gearing on his property investments.

    If so it had to be substantial negative gearing. Where were the borrowings from?

    He probably lived off his wife’s earnings.

    There may be all sorts of questions the IRD should be looking into.

    This would be a gross exploitation of the very system he talks down.

    No wonder he wants to raise tax – he probably won’t be paying it.

    Time to check is parliamentary register.

    • Patrick

      I am very suspicious about his gentlemen’s agreement with Robertson not to bring family into the Labour’s Got Talent roadshow. There is something in Cunliffe’s background that he would prefer remained in the background. I suspect there has been some financial chicanery that would not play too well with the constituents he is currently trying to woo. It requires examination.

  • mike

    Could someone please tell me how it is “FAIR” to tax some people more than others? I would suggest that this is the opposite of “FAIR”… “FAIR” to me would be everybody paying the same rate without exception.

  • Col

    Nothing new then?

  • swing2theleft

    David was talking about the 2011 election policy change. That also included removing gst on food. So this is a much better deal than is currently on offer from the rotten key party. Nice to see some constancy rather than slippery Johness.

    • Muffin

      Both the 39% and the GST off food are really poor policy. We are all paying enough tax, it’s time to make some real changes on how it is spent.

      • swing2theleft

        Middle NZ doesn’t agree. Cheaper food and lower tax is what gets government elected these days.

        • opusx

          Don’t you mean Lower NZ. I’m middle NZ and I’m pretty sure I won’t be swinging to the left based on what these 3 muppets are saying. Tempt me with some decent policy, then I will listen and take note.

        • LabTested

          Why is taking GST off imported Californian grapes, but leaving it on tinned NZ tomatoes a good policy?

          • swing2theleft

            Whose policy is that then?

          • LabTested

            That would have been the result of Labours GST policy on fruit & Veg

          • swing2theleft

            It works in Australia. And slippery used to harp on about becoming like them. When it comes to food shopping no one care about these silly little things anyway.

          • Your arguments would hold more water if you refrained from using silly nicknames. It doesn’t work in Australia actually, ever been there for longer than a week?

          • swing2theleft

            Cunliffe didn’t lie though did he if you take his comment in context with the 2011 policy statement.That’s the point.

          • Muffin

            the real beneficiaries of the GST off Veg thing are accountants, I am one so I would directly benefit from charging another increased fees to all the hospo clients to break out their GST. Its a fucking mess in Aussie to work out

        • Muffin

          I’m middle NZ. I am still yet to meet one person that thinks Labour and their ‘policies’ have anything to offer. You need to understand that we arent all as gullible as you, a drop in GST on veg is going to be re couped from somewhere else, most tax paying middle NZ’rs understand that labour just means more tax while handing out some pouplist lollies to make the pill easier to swallow.

          • swing2theleft

            That’s what I thought. Then I started to talking and listening to people. Left or right they always drop the ball an have to go. But its fair to say after the tax cuts of the key first term they never did manage to even run with it.

          • Muffin

            jeez you talk some rubbish

        • richard.b

          Take the GST of fresh fruit and veg?
          Within a month the price you pay at the checkout would be the same.
          The only winner with this would be the supermarket chains. The biggest loser would be NZ Inc

          • Whafe

            richard, don’t waste your time and energy trying to have a rational discussion with swingtotheclusterfuck. He will not even understand any rational thoughts

          • swing2theleft

            You the sheriff round here or something? Telling folks what to do. My main point was that culture didn’t. And after that point these good folks just want to tell me what they think. No big deal really. Why shut everything down because you don’t like it?

        • cows4me

          The middle New Zealand you talk of are brain dead dicks. The middle New Zealand you talk of are cannon fodder for these lefty bullshit artists who are simple playing an old favourite game. It’s called class warfare and championed by wankers devoured of any real idea how to generate wealth other then stealing someone else’s.

        • In Vino Veritas

          swing, you probably don’t realise that if your household earns less than $60K, you are highly likely to be a net beneficiary. It is difficult to lower taxes for those that don’t actually pay any. Cunliffe and Labour are always disingenuous when they claim the “rich” should pay their “fair share”, because they never tell anyone who the “rich” are, nor what constitutes a “fair share”. Given that 15% of households in NZ pay 75% of net taxes already, I’d suggest that this is way more than a “fair share”.

        • dyannt

          Please show me where any Labour politician is advocating lower taxes?

          And I don’t hear many of them acknowledge that a big chunk of the population’s take home pay will be taxed another 15% when they spend that money. So someone who is on 20% tax rate and spends all their money on living – is actually paying 32% tax. How is Labour going to deal with that and still pay New Zealand’s operating expenses?

      • Ducky

        yes , tax the bloody “rich”, free luches for everyone, make the the rich pricks pay….while the rest of the bludgers Labia voters enjoythe fruits of your labour..That’s why we are called the Labour Party,, You labour we enjoy bludging….

    • thor42

      Ok, so Labour raises taxes on the “rich pricks”.

      A lot of those “rich pricks” are *employers*.

      What happens when some of them say “enough” and head off overseas? We not only lose their tax, but we lose the *jobs*.

      Labour definitely haven’t thought this through.

      • swing2theleft

        They are welcome to leave and will be welcome to come back as well.
        Middle NZ is not interested in what ifs any more.

        • sheppy

          What happens when the money tree dies because all its branches have been harvested?

          • swing2theleft

            Whose money tree are you talking about?

          • sheppy

            I’m talking about the pit of taxpayers money from which the #LaboursGotTalent contenders are going to use to fund their pledges.
            In the real world the money to pay for the pledges has to come from somewhere, and surprisingly if its borrowed, interest has to be paid and at some stage the money borrowed has to be repaid.
            It may come as a great surprise but those “rich pricks” that the lefties love taxing do have options and once they get taxed too much they WILL use them to avoid it.

          • sheppy

            AND one final thing, in the real world if the lenders think you are in any way unlikely to be able to pay back they charge more interest as a compensation for the risk they are taking on.
            Something Lyin’ Len and Auckland Council are likely to discover pretty soon

          • swing2theleft

            financial global meltdown-in the real world of the 21st century those ideas are pretty far fetch.

          • sheppy

            That’s a relief, can I suggest a fact finding mission to Greece just to make sure? Or perhaps Spain? Or perhaps a little easier you may want to check out Top Gear Series 20 Episode 3 where they visit Spain.

        • Whafe

          So you obvioulsy truly believe money grows on trees, wake up and smell the coffee….
          Facts are, we do not as a country have the money to do all your beloved want to be leaders propose

          • swing2theleft

            We are awake. That’s the thing.

          • Whafe

            You sound like the first living brain donor, you have put no valid debate or points forward, quit being an oxygen theif or come forward with something sound your beloved Liabour team have come up with?
            Labour, the gift that keeps giving

          • Muffin

            I’m pretty sure you arent awake

        • thor42

          Excellent! So you agree with me – taxing the “rich pricks” (many of whom are employers) will make a number of them leave and so NZ loses those jobs *and* their taxes (thanks to Labour’s “great” policy). Well done.

          • swing2theleft

            If you really think the banks are going to pack up leave like most of our industry already has, then that’s OK with me that I agree with you.

          • Agent BallSack

            Then whos going to lend money for mortgages? Instant Finance?

      • SJ00

        Rich pricks are also:
        Union leaders
        Government employees (some of them, office workers mainly and one would suspect a fair few Labia supporters)

        They are cutting off their nose to spite their face. Of course MPs will fiddle the system so they get more benefits than they lose and Union leaders will most likely do something (ie raise membership fees and raise their salary) to likewise not loose out.

  • Whafe

    I so so struggle to gain an understanding how that the MSM allow without questions the giant lolly scramble these half witted idiots propose on these joke fest to find a new leader for a party that is in worse shape than many believe.
    I mean give me strength, money doesn’t grow on trees, desptie the lefty pinkos advocating that it does…
    National and John Key must be sitting back laughing their tits off at how little interlect these clowns have…
    It just shows just how ones political persuassion covers up rational thought….
    Labour, the gift that keeps giving…..

  • metalnwood

    I was a bit busy on the weekend so I missed where they discussed why they needed to raise more tax? I assumed we are going to war or something requiring immediate funds?

    As Cunliffe does fairly well on his already large salary I would hope, to show sincerity to his supporters, he gives the additional pay as leader or PM to a charity rather than more investment property.

    Just like the current PM does.

    • john

      They are going to war,
      They are starting a class war.
      The ‘rich’ must pay more!!!!

      • john

        I meant that as a comment in jest…

    • Ducky

      curryleaf “give the additional pay to charity..”.???… are you on Tui?

  • Brian of Mt Wellington

    What makes it worse is there are so many people who actually believe what these fools say and will vote for them at the Gen Election.

  • Anyone notice how quiet the Greens are at the moment? Hmmmm….

    • Whafe

      Yep, they are sitting back laughing their tits off at just how uncosted this lolly scrable is going from Liabour…. They are thinking, we can just keep our mouths shut and we will be gaining voters…
      However a vote for the Gweens is a vote for Liabour and vice versa

      • sheppy

        Have the Gweens learnt how to cost things?

  • Sir Cullen’s Sidekick

    All of you guys are mistaken. Please listen. Furious Fill Gap had a tax policy in 2011 election that had a 39% tax from a threshold of $150K. Curryleaf is sticking to that policy. Fill Gap came up with this policy which is different to the one imposed by the She beast and stupid Cullen in 1999 which taxed the hell out of anybody who earned more than 60K. Fill Gap realised even their own cronies like the teachers and the nurses have started to earn more than 60K and increased the limit to 150K, so that the real rich pricks can be penalised for being successful in life. So Curryleaf is not lying for once.

  • johnbronkhorst

    “Cunliffe lies on Tax”

    and after it should read.

    “Cunliffe laid on Tacks”

    • richard.b

      Step right up. Come and see the leaders freak circus!
      Watch the bearded lady lie on a bed of Tacks
      See the amazing rubber man with his flexable wrist watch TV in a hotel room
      Gasp at the sword swallowing feats of the little fat man
      Roll up, roll up.
      Only #39% tax rate to enter.

    • rockape

      Rather he Laid on tracks!

  • johnbronkhorst

    a fair tax system:
    User pays!!!
    Govt. income from Taxes, levies and charges…..approx. $160 billion
    No. of tax payers (contributors and potential contributors)…approx. 2 million
    Fair tax on each (as per user pays)………………………………….$80 000
    Paid your $80 grand yet??

  • dyannt

    They all seem to be talking “I” this and “I” that as if they are going to be dictators. I wonder how their parliamentary colleagues feel about this?

  • Mr_V4

    In fairness he was refering to their last proposal at the election.

    • johnbronkhorst

      You sure about that? If he doesn’t actually say it!
      Besides, why should I be fair to him. he has no such plans in store for me!!!!!

  • Isn’t it interesting that the top tax rate will kick in just slightly higher than what a backbench MP earns; funny that…

    • Agent BallSack

      So we will tax them on their perks too. Use more than $1000 on your petrol card or taxpayer funded flights and that takes you over the minimum. Yeah I know never going to happen its only the proles who should be taxed on employment benefits.

    • opusx

      Man, backbencher has to be THE best job in the world, close to $150,000 per year for doing absolutely nothing. Brilliant.

  • Hazards001

    You don’t even have to be particularly successful to earn over 60K.

    My mate and I used to earn nearly double that a few years ago simply by
    being prepared to not drink on a given night and be prepared to answer the phone get out of bed and go dig holes in the middle of the night in the pissing down rain if required and to keep working until the fault was repaired.

    No matter how long it took.

    Then drag weary arse into work for the tasks you were booked for that day…and repeat if it happened again the next night.
    Lots of people earn over 60K just by being hard and productive employees, fucking Labour has always failed to recognise that fact, hence why they lost the vote of many of the so called the working class.