Did any of these munters demand Labour release details of any FTA’s they signed?

I see assorted whining lefties and useful idiots have all formed a campaign to lobby the government to breach international agreements about negotiations underway.

munters

I’ll bet not a single one of them…yes Russell Brown, you too…ever made a single demand of Labour to release details of FTAs being negotiated under Labour…not a single one. 

Did they moan about the seeing the details of the China FTA?

What about the New Zealand and Thailand Closer Economic Partnership signed by Labour 2005 when Thailand was under the control of the military?

How about the New Zealand and Singapore Closer Economic Partnership signed in 2001?

What about the Trans-Pacific Strategic Economic Partnership with Brunei in 2005 and with Chile when Clark signed  the Trans-Pacific Strategic Economic Partnership in 2005 and Singapore’s Trans-Pacific Strategic Economic Partnership again in 2005?

Did they clamour to see all those agreements back then? Were those agreements an affront to democracy then?

Of course not. This just looks like yet another Hooton special…a collection of assorted moaners and whingers and dodgy unions pushing their agenda.

I’m not sure that Sanitarium would be happy with the green idiot who founded Lisa’s Hummus using their brand to push her political agenda. She may have founded it, but when she sold she lost the right to use that brand…this sort of brand destruction is not appreciated by corporates who paid a lot of money for the brand.

Lisas_Hummus_small_bw

 


THANK YOU for being a subscriber. Because of you Whaleoil is going from strength to strength. It is a little known fact that Whaleoil subscribers are better in bed, good looking and highly intelligent. Sometimes all at once! Please Click Here Now to subscribe to an ad-free Whaleoil.

  • Nick

    Well that’s that then! A racist Maori sovereignty dumbfuck, a C-list tv comedian and…. I don’t know any of the others are asking me to sign a petition. Just tell me where

  • jaundiced

    Being famous for being on TV makes you an expert on these things of course

    • Euan Ross-Taylor

      Are you referring to ‘te radar’ as being famous? His counterpart in ‘Mash’ is far more famous, and I might add, far more competent.

      • Patrick

        He ain’t funny but thinks he is a comedian. In fact none of them is particularly good at their chosen vocation. It is only due to the taxpayers largess that they are employed in their chosen field.

    • GazzW

      About as reliable as Richard Long’s financial advice.

  • blokeintakapuna

    If anything it’s an “anti-National” protest more than anything… And all to throw as many spanners in as many works as possible so as to try and derail any progress, anywhere on anything – because if the “National enemy” looks bad, we’ll look better by comparison.

    • Bunswalla

      What the fuck do they even mean, anyway – “It’s not democracy”? Do they expect every decision to be put to a referendum, like Switzerland?

      In the absence of that, an elected government negotiating trade agreements (which every government of every country has been doing for the last 50 years) is actually the definition of democracy.

      If you don’t like it, exercise your democratic rights next year and see how you go. Muppets.

      • Arran Hunt

        They’re right. What they are asking for is not democracy.

      • Patrick

        Exactly 4th rate media so called celebrities should stand for election, then they will see how valued their opinions actually are.

  • dumbshit

    sign in middle should be–“it’s not left”

  • James Growley

    Looking at that miserable line up of numpty’s, you would automatically decide if they against anything, then I am for whatever it is……….

    • Polish Pride

      So you are for giving overseas corporates like Monsanto, Big Tobacco and Big Alcohol the right to sue our Government (make sure you read that as you a tax payer) should they make any legislative change that can be deemed to effect their profits?

      • mike

        Is that in the TPPA? Could you show me where please?

        • Polish Pride

          You know very well that is what they WANT to have in the TPPA. In fact that is the reason for all of the concern about it. Take that off the table and the discontent will disappear altogether.

          • Sponge

            Bollocks – you lot would still moan whatever was in it.

          • Polish Pride

            you lot? what intelligent individuals able to think for themselves??
            Who is you lot Sponge?

          • johnbronkhorst

            Giving Corporates the right to Sue our government and therefore us the tax payer.
            AAHH, but we want the right to sue over use of Maori “intellectual property” in other countries. Along with other “intellectual property rights” we don’t want govt.s changing laws AFTER we have made substantial investment in another country…They are after the same rights here. I specifically point to the Canadian attempt to invest in Auckland airport!

          • Polish Pride

            AAHH, but we want the right to sue over use of Maori “intellectual property” in other countries.
            Do you? I certainly don’t. Not at a Governmental level. If Maori want to try and sue overseas companies for using what they consider to be Maori IP then more power to them. I couldn’t care one way or the other.
            What I don’t want is governments having a disincentive to change a law for the good of all New Zealanders because they might get sued.
            Plain Packaging on cigarettes or Fast food? – potential lawsuits from Many big Corporates.
            Labeling of food containing GMOs so we have the right to choose what we eat and don’t? – potential lawsuits from all companies with GMOs in their products.
            Need more money want to increase tax on petrol or cigarettes? – Potential Lawsuits from Big Tobbacco and Big Oil.
            Govt reduces funding for Pharmac and a pharmaceutical companies drug gets cut- potential law suit.
            I just don’t think that its a good idea on any day of the week to hamstring our countries govt from making laws for our country.

          • BR

            “Big Tobacco”, “Big oil”. Sounds like typical leftspeak to me. I don’t give a rat’s arse about “big tobacco”. I never buy their products. They don’t cost me a cent.

            As for “big oil”, The logistics involved with putting gas in your car require huge investments and high risks. Oil companies have no choice but to be big. In spite of that, the oil companies make far less on a litre of petrol than the government collects in taxes per litre. Perhaps it isn’t the oil companies that are too big.

            Bill.

          • Bad__Cat

            LOL.
            Why don’t we ever hear about Little Tobacco or Medium Oil?

          • Polish Pride

            Come on Bill I’m hardly going to type out BP, Exxon Mobil, etc.etc. and when it comes to cigarettes I don’t smoke so other than Benson &Hedges and Rothmans I wouldn’t have a clue who the players are.
            But I am in full agreement with you about Govt being far too big and a huge part of the problem.

          • Auckland Airport …. Wasn’t Silent T involved in that debacle?

          • Sponge

            The moaning and relentlessly negative left wing PP. Did I touch a nerve?

            I am unconcerned about your opinion of me but I am concerned about very real danger of the lunatic left getting control of this country. That would cause far more damage to this country than some theoretical risk of corporates suing the Government (even though this is not actually in the TPPA)

          • Polish Pride

            Perhaps you haven’t been here long enough to know that I’m not Left or Right. Sponge The Left vs Right Paradigm is a huge part of the problem with the system and when you get down to it Both sides are exactly the same. They are both about wealth redistribution and both have their pet groups they like to fill the pockets of.

            So no nerve hit just wanted to make sure you understand where I am coming from.

            Just to be crystal. There’s no L vs R in my book. It is more accurately Us (the people) vs Them (the politicians).

            “That would cause far more damage to this country than some theoretical risk of corporates suing the Government (even though this is not actually in the TPPA)”
            Interested in the last part. Can you please post a link or a source to this so that I can go happily about the rest of my year without having to worry about it any further.

          • Sponge

            A link to something that does not exist? No.

          • Polish Pride

            Given that there has been plenty of leaks as to what is in TPP and this is one of them then it would be prudent to assume it IS still on the table until further evidence comes out it is not.

            You said it is not. Therefore I asked you for evidence.

            So its either evidence to say that it has been removed since the leaks to say it was there.

            Or perhaps their has been information released refuting the leaks saying it was never on the table.

            Or perhaps you are part of the TPP negotiations so can categorically state as fact that the previous information was incorrect and it was never on the table.

            Which of those is it?

          • johnbronkhorst

            “Just to be crystal. There’s no L vs R in my book. It is more accurately Us (the people) vs Them (the politicians). ”
            To be crystal PP.
            We are the govt./politicians and they ARE us.
            Such is the definition of our political system.
            It is called the “house of REPRESENTATIVES” for that very reason!

          • Polish Pride

            You still stand by that statement when Labours in Govt John?

          • johnbronkhorst

            Dam right I did. I didn’t like it. But it is what it is!

          • Polish Pride

            We might not agree on many things John but no one could ever accuse you of being a hypocrite.
            I disagree with you on this point. I think they should represent us but think there are many times that they don’t.

          • onelaw4all

            “The Left vs Right Paradigm is a huge part of the problem with the system and when you get down to it Both sides are exactly the same. They are both about wealth redistribution and both have their pet groups they like to fill the pockets of.”

            I agree with your statement, but you need to put your cards on the table.

            The REAL problem with the “system” is the ongoing conflict between freedom and tyranny.
            Unfortunately, tyranny has a worldwide stranglehold atm, and when the “last administration” who were large proponents of it are removed, the next one only tinkers around the edges and largely leaves its edifices in place.

          • Polish Pride

            Cards:
            Want people to see the failings of and the hypocrisy of the L vs R political system.
            Want them to understand they are both about wealth redistribution.
            Want more power returned to the people.
            Want less Government.
            Want to free people from the system.
            Want to actually have the problems we face as a society solved and understand that leaving it to Bureaucrats historically won’t solve them.
            Want to transition the system to an RBE
            Want clean water you can drink from in our rivers and lakes
            Want sensible use of renewable energies including and especially hydro.
            Want Cannabis and some other drugs legalized.
            Want my right to privacy.
            I reserve the right to add to the list at any time.

          • onelaw4all

            “Want people to see the failings of and the hypocrisy of the L vs R political system.”

            The only political systems in play at the moment are huge government vs huger government, so yes,, a putative L vs R system is misleading at this point.

            “Want them to understand they are both about wealth redistribution.”
            Reduce government to core obligations, fixed.

            “Want more power returned to the people.”
            Reduce government to core obligations, fixed.

            “Want less Government.”
            Reduce government to core obligations, fixed.

            “Want to free people from the system.”
            Reduce government to core obligations, fixed.

            “Want to actually have the problems we face as a society solved and understand that leaving it to Bureaucrats historically won’t solve them.”
            Reduce government to core obligations, let private sector solve problems, fixed.

            “Want to transition the system to an RBE”

            Fail. Cue Plato’s Republic, abolition of private property rights, etc.

            “Want clean water you can drink from in our rivers and lakes”

            Crazy talk, obviously. Nobody wants that. /eyeroll.

            “Want sensible use of renewable energies including and especially hydro.”
            Explain.

            “Want Cannabis and some other drugs legalized.”
            The libertarian part of me somewhat agrees.

            Want my right to privacy.
            Reduce government to core obligations, fixed.

          • Polish Pride

            OK lets ignore the ones with reduce govt to core obligations (except for one) because I agree they would.

            The only political systems in play at the moment are huge government vs huger government, so yes,, a putative L vs R system is misleading at this point.

            True I wasn’t sure if you were asking for all cards or just in relation to TPP.

            “Want to free people from the system.”
            Reduce government to core obligations, fixed.
            This doesn’t truly free people from the system. They still have to work and earn money in order to survive. Try not paying rates and see how free of the system you are.

          • mike

            Hydro can also be extremely damaging to the environment, just look at China’s Three Gorges project! As for solar it’s just not good enough, you need alternative supplies for those dark rainy winter days of which many countries have quite a few… and what about the poor bastards in the Arctic circle who get 6 months of darkness a year????

          • Polish Pride

            The technology exists for these problems now and could still be used under RBE until better solutions are found.

          • mike

            Firstly be more specific, what problem are you going to fix… the environmental damage caused by building dams or the fact that there are places in the world who don’t get enough sun to make solar a viable energy source?

            And what technology will you use, coal power plant/nuclear/gas/ wind (because that’s not effective or efficient either)?

            Your RBE is based on a Utopian vision that is not realistic of feasible, it exists in the mind of dreamers and academics like all socialist paradises. However none of them can exist in the real world because they never take into account human nature or the actual cost (not just financial) of things.

            Your RBE requires massive amounts of automation, this will cost trillions of dollars of research, then more trillions of dollars to set up the production lines to create your automatons. Who will pay for all this initial set up?

          • Polish Pride

            It depends on your definition of environmental damage. Most Hydro Dam projects in New Zealand can be argued to have caused massive environmental damage to what was their prior to building the Dam or Dams. It can also be argued that they have been developed rather well here in New Zealand and beautify the landscape as a whole with the lakes they create as a result. Good examples of this are Clyde, Benmore, Aviemore, Waitaki, Rotorangi, Manapouri and there’s bound to be many others also.

            But again under RBE we don’t lose these as sources of power generation. Nor do we lose any other existing sources.

            We can if we choose to take the load off the system by adding solar to all new and over time existing homes and have them all grid tied.

            As for hard to reach areas and areas with not enough sun hours then there’s diesel generators just as we use now in these scenarios.

            So yes we still use existing sources and if deemed necessary we can have resources working on developing better more efficient sources……if deemed necessary. Hydrogen fuel cells becomes far more feasible once cost is no longer a factor. There are other technologies too that would be worth further investigation. But not having them doesn’t mean RBE won’t work. It would work very well and far better than any system tried to date with existing technology we have today.

            “Your RBE is based on a Utopian vision that is not realistic of feasible, it exists in the mind of dreamers and academics like all socialist paradises. However none of them can exist in the real world because they never take into account human nature or the actual cost (not just financial) of things”
            First a question: How are you getting Utopian vision from RBE?
            Its not Utopian and has never tried to be. Someone calling it this is only showing they don’t really understand the system….. It is however the only system that has looked at Human nature properly and incorporated that into the design of the system itself.
            It also takes into account the cost of resources and incorporates this into determining best use of them.
            Remember though that because of better design, eliminating the monetary cost that comes with recycling, removing both the profit motive and planned obsolescence we would have far more available resources than we do today.
            Don’t confuse RBE with Socialism. It isn’t. Socialism is all about wealth redistribution and big govt to ensure the masses are looked after.
            There’s no need to take from someone to give to someone else under RBE.
            In fact RBE I the only system that doesn’t require this. It is the only system that by design provides mechanisms and an environment for people to have their needs and wants (according to Maslows Hierarchy met. This is vs other systems that can’t even satisfy basic needs for all being met consistently.
            RBE by design uses massive amounts of automation. It costs nothing in research as the technology exists already. It costs nothing to set up except manpower and resources. Money under the current system has become a barrier and this is one of the reasons why this couldn’t be achieved in the current system but can be quite easily by comparison under RBE.

          • onelaw4all

            “A common misconception about RBE. Their need be no abolition of property rights and if there were to be any it would be by individual choice when they are deemed no longer necessary.”

            So how would issues such as this hypothetical one I just thought of be resolved?:

            “Mineral X” is a vital element in the running of the abundant energy system that permeates the State’s RBE.
            A privately owned company that has a pivotal amount of “mineral X” refuses to acquiesce to this utopian system, because they have invested a long time and many old-school resources into the exploration/recovery of the mineral.

            What would happen next?

          • mike

            Easy the Utopian societies “enforcement” agency will simply take it.

          • Polish Pride

            Not even close

          • mike

            Ok then please avail us all of the actual process that will take place in One Laws example.

          • Polish Pride

            see above, btw mike I have no issue with you throwing scenarios at me too. A skeptical mind is exactly what is required to help identify any weaknesses so they can be resolved.

          • mike

            You call it skepticism… I call it reality.

          • Polish Pride

            As said the men responding to both Galileo and Aristarchus….

            let me ask you a serious question Mike. What is your area of expertise and on what do you base it?

          • Polish Pride

            Ideally it’d be good to have a little more context around the scenario and have an actual mineral as an example. The only scenario I could come up with to meet that was where NZ had moved to RBE but required Mineral X from a company in a country that hadn’t moved.
            The solution would be two fold in my view.
            1. trade with a third party government or parties that the company is dealing with in order to obtain mineral X
            2. get scientific, engineering resources to come up with an alternative that doesn’t require mineral X.
            In reality though the best example I could think of is Petroleum and there are plenty of solutions were the scenario above to be played out.
            If on the other hand your scenario is that NZ has moved to RBE and one company refuses to allow access to mineral X and to shift to RBE then again you look at trade. Food would probably be the commodity that would provide the most leverage to end a stalemate.
            good example though, happy to look at more context. These are the sorts of things that need to be thought through when looking at RBE.

          • mike

            Food (a common item) equates to a precious metal? You think that a company that has invested millions if not billions of dollars and man hours into extracting or processing a precious resource will give it up for food?

            And unless you have cracked the secrets of alchemy you can’t make more gold, or platinum, or iridium… or any other precious metal that exists in rather scarce quantities or in very hard to reach places.

            The company will want to get a return on their investment, their workers will want to get money in order to buy food, buy a house and all the other consumer goods that they want.

            And trade already exists, we trade money for goods and services… it’s just an advancement on the barter system.

          • Polish Pride

            This is why I said more context is required. If we have shifted to RBE and there is a company holding back resources.

            Where is this company? is it in the same place as RBE is operating as the system?

            If so RBE system and food belongs to the people within it. They can if they choose withhold it from the company. It would change their mind pretty quickly if the can’t get food.

            “The company will want to get a return on their investment, their workers will want to get money in order to buy food, buy a house and all the other consumer goods that they want.”

            this is the reason more context is required. Are the workers of the company under RBE? Are the Managers and Owners? All of whom would get more under RBE than they would under the current system so why would they withhold the resource? They aren’t going to get a return on their investment. No one is buying their product, The system doesn’t use money. The workers order food, consumer goods and a house if they need one through the system.

            Alternately Is the company overseas and not in the RBE? this is where obtaining the required resource from a third party or mining it ourselves comes into play whilst designing a solution that doesn’t require a scarce and hard to obtain resource.

            Lets to make it easy though say the company is overseas and NZ is an RBE.

            We are unlikely to need gold, platinum or iridium. We are likely to want the technology and products they are used in though. Those products are produced in China and Japan as well as other places. We here in NZ produce primary products. Those products are desired by China and Japan.

            In this scenario we would simply trade for the products we need.

            Yes trade does exist and can be used to solve problems for RBE when dealing with countries, companies, groups that haven’t transitioned.

          • mike

            That’s a lot like saying “they want to have”… who is they, and where have they said these horrible things?

          • Polish Pride

            On 23 May 2012, United States Senator Ron Wyden introduced S. 3225, proposed legislation that would require the Office of the United States Trade Representative to disclose its TPP documents to all members of Congress.[81] Wyden said the bill clarifies the intent of the 2002 legislation which was supposed to increase Congressional access to information about USTR activity, but which, according to Wyden, is being incorrectly interpreted by the USTR as justification to excessively limit such access.[82] Wyden asserted:“The majority of Congress is being kept in the dark as to the substance of the TPP negotiations, while representatives of U.S. corporations—like Halliburton, Chevron, PHRMA, Comcast, and the Motion Picture Association of America—are being consulted and made privy to details of the agreement. […] More than two months after receiving the proper security credentials, my staff is still barred from viewing the details of the proposals that USTR is advancing. We hear that the process by which TPP is being negotiated has been a model of transparency. I disagree with that statement.[82]

            part of

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Pacific_Partnership

          • mike

            So a US Senator is upset he doesn’t know what’s in the TPPA, and is also complaining about a 2002 bill?

            So what? It’s still hearsay, conjecture and rumour.

          • Polish Pride

            No Mike I was illustrating the corporations involved. That + Leaks + clauses around IP ….. where there’s smoke there’s fire…and so on.

          • mike

            But you still have no proof… it is still just rumours, speculation and basic scare mongering by opponents of the deal. I’m sure that Fonterra is whispering in the Governments ears and asking for all sorts of concessions as well… and hopefully the Government negotiators will be trying to ensure the best possible deal that we can get.

          • Polish Pride

            The talks are being done in secrecy so all you have is the leaks etc. then apply the where there’s smoke there’s fire rule.
            Here are the scenarios:
            Make a lot of noise about it, the deal is signed, its not in there. Great
            Make a lot of noise about it, the deal is signed, it is in there. Hopefully a less likely option because of the discontent already being expressed.
            Make no noise, the deal is signed, its not in there. Great.
            Make no noise, the deal is signed, it’s in there.
            Really don’t want to be in this position so not really an option.

          • mike

            So even in your argument with or without the vocal opposition and angst it’s a 50/50 chance that this rumoured bit of legislation will be in the final bill.

            Sounds like futility to me… give up PP and save the world another broken heart.

            Me on the other hand I have faith in our negotiators to do the right thing… if they fuck up then I’ll be using my democratic rights to kick the fuckers out of office who passed a useless bill into law! Sort of like what I did with Labour after the anti-smacking bill, the soft stance on crime and the wasted billions of dollars!

          • Polish Pride

            So I guess between us we have both angles covered then ;)

          • James Growley

            Just because I want something, doesn’t mean I will actually get it – again, as Mike asks, where is it enshrined in the TPPA? or is this just another rant for the sake of blagging Key & National…..

          • Polish Pride

            A little touchy this morning James?
            It’s not about National or John Key. Its about Politicians who are supposed to be our elected representatives doing what is in our best interests, not just for now but for the future also.
            Perhaps you haven’t noticed but when America says jump, We’ve been saying how high for a wee while now. It isn’t often they don’t get what they want eventually in one form or another.
            Because lets face it our politicians can always be trusted as historically they always get it right don’t they.

          • James Growley

            I think I will defer to Mark Twain at this point…. “Never argue with stupid people because they will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

          • Polish Pride

            I think that was about the only thing you could try and defer to James but as I got rid of my ego years ago, so be it.

          • mike

            No I don’t “know” that for a fact… I “know” that many of the opponents of the TPPA have been saying that since it’s inception, but there is no “proof” to back up those claims only anonymous tips and rumours.

            What I do “know” is that the TPPA discussions are ongoing and have not been finalised.

          • Polish Pride

            And as I have eluded to in earlier conversations IF it is in there, it will be too late to ask for it to be taken out after the fact.
            Better to let them know very clearly that it is not something that should be in there now and ‘encourage’ them to ensure it isn’t .

          • mike

            So you’d rather we walk away from the TPPA just because they haven’t confirmed or denied the existence of this clause, because talks are still underway and NOTHING has been agreed to at this point in time?

          • Polish Pride

            No not at all just keep it to being an agreement on trade. Not on IP and Not on corporates being able to sue sovereign governments

          • mike

            Trade and IP are linked, I’m pretty sure Fonterra or F&P would get quite upset if someone started using their brand names.

            And if a Government allows one of their companies to breach the TPPA then they should be held accountable.

          • BAM

            That one’s aimed at the Chinese government.
            Chinese want to rip off others intellectual property, they pay the fucking price.

            In a way it might actually even up the playing field a bit.

          • mike

            I may have implied that… but i didn’t say that. :-)

            Remember little chinese brother is watching!

          • Bad__Cat

            No I don’t.

      • GazzW

        We are in negotiations FFS. So you really think that JK will sign up with those conditions in place? For starters it would give the Cunliffe/Noddy coalition more ammunition than they would know what to do with never mind alienating his own voters.

        Yeah right, let’s now have a rant about his rich banker mates in Hollywood.

        • Polish Pride

          You have far too much faith in politicians….

          • GazzW

            You are so wrong PP. I have no faith in politicians who slag off good policy just for the sake of slagging it off. I wonder where we would be now if the Nats had opposed the FTA with China instead of giving labour their support. There’s a big difference mate – it’s called maturity.

          • Polish Pride

            So Gazz I have put out what the ACTUAL issue in all of this is and said lets talk about that.

            Your response

            “Yeah right, let’s have a rant about his rich banker mates in Hollywood.”
            I must have missed the maturity embedded deep within that comment.

            Have you been following TPP? If you had you would know that this is one of the things on the table. This only saw the light of day because it was leaked. This combined with the level of secrecy surrounding it is concerning to say the least.
            Let me put it in a slightly different context for you.
            If this was a Labour govt negotiating this and Corporates being able to sue our Govt and therefore us was on the table. And it was all supposed to be secret….. Cam would be all over it like white on rice and you would all be up in arms about it.
            How about we get a little perspective.
            You can come down off that big horse your riding anytime. The air down here is just as fresh.

          • Martin White

            Your being very trepidatious. You have your head up your fundamental orifice if you think this current government would sign off on such todge.

          • Polish Pride

            I actually hope like hell you are right…..

            Unfortunately I also personally think that if given the right incentives politicians would sign off on quite a lot you might not think the would.
            I never expected legislation to pass in this country that prohibits the judiciary from looking at it but that’s exactly what happened.
            Perhaps I just have far less faith in our politicians than you do.

          • GazzW

            Thank you Mark. My reply to PP put very concisely. Life’s too short to worry about the ‘what ifs’.

            Cunliffe is just as likely to make a joint announcement tomorrow with with Noddy that their coalition won’t honour the TPP and further ‘enhance’ our international reputation.

          • Bunswalla

            Gazz you’ll have to excuse PP this morning, he’s had a very bad weekend. His alter ago Richard Osmaston came stone motherless last in the Nelson Mayoral election, campaigning on the brilliant but widely misunderstood platform of introducing a Resource Based Economy.

            Still, 308 votes out of 16,851 (or around 1.8% of the vote) is pretty good going for a fruit-loop with batshit crazy ideas.

          • Polish Pride

            That’s only because he doesn’t have my stunning charisma ;)

          • BR

            Unlike the free market which can be done on any scale.

            Bill.

          • Polish Pride

            Yes bill unlike the free market which can be done on any scale. Find a solution that frees people from the system and you will have solved libertarianisms biggest weakness.

          • BR

            You talk about “the system” ( I assume you mean the free market “system”) as something that everyone is straining at the bit to free themselves of. In actual fact, there are more people trying to be part of the free market system than there are trying to escape it. This is confirmed by looking at the border controls of various countries. A country with a free market needs border controls to keep people out. Countries without a free market economy need border controls to keep people in.

            As for your “resource based economy”, nobody really knows what it consists of. You have done little else but trumpet the so-called benefits, but have offered little by way of explanation as to how it will inspire people to work. Take “big oil” for example. How will it be possible to organise and collate the expertise, the manpower and the co-operation required to get the oil out of the ground and into your car efficiently.

            Go and read “I pencil”

            Bill.

          • Polish Pride

            Yes Bill people in oppressed countries try to come to first world ones for a better life. That’s the thing people want to better themselves. I’m in a first world country that many people want to come to. I’ve lived here all my life. Because of that and the path my life has taken me on I can see that although it’s better than some country in the back blocks of Africa or Iraq or many other countries worse off than we are, it still fails to deliver on many levels. The difference is I’m one of the few that took the time to figure it out. You don’t think there are people wanting to escape from the system, to escape from the daily grind? Why do you think Lotto does so well. These are all people hoping to win and to a degree escape from the life they currently lead.
            I’m not against Libertarianism Bill. It is the only system apart from RBE that puts personal freedom high up the priority list.
            The problem is you have a large section of the population that believes the system should provide and these are the people large enough in number to ensure that we never move to a Libertarian user pays system.
            This is New Zealand you really think people are going to vote for a system that puts tolls on every road, A system where they might have to pay to go to the beach, a park, a lake or where they might not even be able to go anymore at all because it is now privately owned. Its just never going to happen because it doesn’t satisfy everyones ideals on what the system should do.
            How does a resource based economy inspire people to work. Because it gives them the opportunity and the resources to do what they want to do what they are passionate about. Because they can collectively build a better future. Everything else gets automated. If there’s still things left over that can’t be you will still have far more people than you need to do them. Working 2 days per week or even 3 is a pretty big incentive when put next to working 5 or 6 days often 50 – 60 hours per week with an uncertain future (another reason we won’t see libertarianism unfortunately).
            That said you only need to think about what you would do in such a system. Sit on the couch all day drinking beer eating chips and watching sport? I doubt it. Societies expectations play a big part in it too. You or I could have simply gone on the dole when we left school and surfed. Gone to the odd job interview and made a hash of it to keep the state happy but we didn’t did we. It is easy to think that everyone else is a bludger after all you hear about that small percentage of society (and it is a very small percentage) more than anyone else. Normal everyday people going about their business doing what society expects of them simply doesn’t make the news. Human nature is not made up of the minority.
            If I put you and all your family and friends in a functioning RBE tomorrow and said here’s a list of jobs that need doing. Pick the one that interests you the most and go there tomorrow. You do that for two days per week then do what you want for your 5 day weekend. Here’s the keys to your new car, Here’s some temporary accommodation while we build you the house you want. In your weekend you might want to go to the architects and get them to help you with the design you want. Your into fishing? There’s boats down at the Marina, just call them up and book one a few days beforehand. The supermarkets across the road, Its open 24/7, go and get the food you want, it all gets reordered automatically and you don’t need to worry about paying.
            and so on
            I do the same with all your friends and family
            You really want to go back!?!
            Big oil example the same as we do now until we either find a way to automate it or find a new technology. Yes their will be people to do it and if necessary their will be incentives if needed. First dibs on rooms in 5 or even 6 star hotels at that point, First Class air travel.
            If it is required…..
            The reason I don’t lay it all out is because its not my system Bill and it is a conversation that should be had by all as to exactly how it should look and perform in many ways. I can give you a framework but it is up to you to determine how you think it should work.

          • GazzW

            1.8%? That’s just a tad under the national illiteracy rate.

    • Bad__Cat

      If that lot said: “Don’t put your head in a bucket of shit!” I would seriously have to consider my options.

  • GregM

    Yet another anti National petition. No doubt smelly hippies paid for by the taxpayer with the Green party cheque book will be on every street corner again.
    How about they all fuck off and let the government govern. I’m sick of them.

    • mike

      Sort of like the cardboard pokie machines in Aotea Square… courtesy of NZ Greens and your tax dollars.

      Shot team!

      • johnbronkhorst

        Prosecution for littering pending????

        • mike

          Actually that’s an idea, anyone in Auckland know if they got consent to “occupy” Aotea Square today?

        • James Growley

          If there is any justice left, the Material girl will fall under the street sweeper and end up in one of those big rubbish bins – that should give the designer duds the well worn look……

  • metalnwood

    The guy at the top reminds me of Walter from breaking bad.

    • Andy

      “Graeme from the goodies”

      Now it all makes sense!
      “We can do anything any time”

  • Sooty

    Who are all these people ? Obviously no one of importance. Maybe if you watch all the shit on tv they might be. But then I watch bugger all tv.

  • johnbronkhorst

    So the left are trying to change the definition of democracy again.
    Asset sales
    pokies for convention centres
    Now ….its free trade agreements,…which are the RESPONSIBILITY of all govt.s ..for time immemorial, to foster good military and ECONOMIC relations with as many countries as possible.
    This is what keeps us safe…both militarily and economically…..to have as many friends as possible.

  • Mark

    Te Radar, Jennifer Ward-Lealand, Fuck Knows, Moana Maniapoto, Michelle A’Court, Russell Brown, Simon Pratt, Don McGlashon, Willie Jackson and Some Chick who probably acts. Wow! That covers a real broad range across the political spectrum doesn’t it? (From far left to slightly less far left)

    • sweetd

      Common thread, have all, or are currently sucking on the tax payers teat?

    • GazzW

      They forgot Sam Neill, Lucy Lawless. & Robyn Malcolm.

      • Liberty

        Don’t forget the two thickos who pissed of the Russians

    • mike

      So all has beens then, trying to get a little bit more limelight and stay relevant in the hope of getting a new show.

    • Nechtan

      The “some chick who probably acts” at first glance appears to be that singer Lorde. I could be wrong, but really what does a 16 year old know or care about politics? edit spelling

      • Honcho

        I think its Keisha Castle-Hughes, which isn’t suprising after she was dragged into green party political grandstanding with Zena Warrior Princess. Protesting against mining up Denniston by staging a media puff piece at Punakaiki … WTF … both need geography and history lessons before they can be taken seriously.

    • Bunswalla

      Yep, standing on two beer crates and an apple box.

  • Proof: The Stupid will always be with us!

  • conwaycaptain

    Surprised that Les Ridges, mere et fille, aren’t there.
    Front page of a woman’s mag about she is in love and having a baby. That is La Fille.

  • Col

    There is a look on these people’s faces, seems they look lost, you even see them on the streets sometimes.

    • Mr Sackunkrak

      Bewildered is the word you are looking for.

  • SteveWrathall

    Actually in 2005, Thailand was still under the leadership of democratically-elected Thaksin Shinawatra. It was in 2006 that the best military money can buy gave him the arse.

  • In Vino Veritas

    I don’t know any of these people. I guess they must be important to their parents. And wiveshusbands and kids.

    • johnbronkhorst

      They use the assumption, that recognition of their faces, means we must KNOW them. In the knowing of them is the second and third assumptions…that we can TRUST them and they have knowledge above the superficial statements that they make.

  • Sir Cullen’s Sidekick

    Best is to ignore these idiots who contribute nothing and move on.

  • rockape

    We have a system of electing MPs ,the biggest pasrty of co-elition of parties forming a government and doing just that. If you want a system of Government by citizens referendum go for it . But, and there is usually a but accept the consequences. Minorities may loose big time. We could end up with less taxation, hardening up on criminals, end to the ETS, less benefits maybe even an end to the treaty. Greenies and Maori party need to be careful what they wish for.

  • Polish Pride

    Here’s an idea. Why not debate what the actual issue is on this.
    Should overseas corporations be given the ability to sue the New Zealand Government and in financial terms the New Zealand tax payers for changes in legislation that have an adverse effect on their profits.
    If this is kosher in your book then why shouldn’t my business be allowed to sue the our government for changes in legislation that adversely affect my profit margin.

    • johnbronkhorst

      YES!!!!
      If the NZ govt. acts in BAD faith.
      eg the Auckland airport share fiasco.
      The buying of LAV’s for the army.
      etc etc….All labour fuck ups I believe!

      • bristol

        Let’s not forget Cullen’s cynical Kiwirail buyback stunt.

    • Liberty

      Yes and it should go further .
      Inept Political parties such as Labour,Green and NZF also
      known as the coalition of loses. Should be made accountable
      If they make stupid statements.
      An example is there Media release on the state controlling the electricity market.
      Wiped thousands of the share price. All for a cheap political stunt.

      • Bunswalla

        Wiped thousands of millions of the share price.

  • drummerboy

    I’m not a fan of this deal because of the role big companies are playing, but i have done a tonne of reading on it. Whats the bet that none of the people pictured in that photo have have read a single document. most of them would have just heard some hyperventilating socialist complaining about it so just jumped on the bandwagon.

    • johnbronkhorst

      There is no avoiding dealing with big companies these days, this has been true for decades.
      So, making a deal means that not only do the NZ govt. have to abide by it, but other countries too and also…….these very companies these clowns, pictured, are afraid of. These deals are a2 way street, or a better description…..”a double edged sword”.

      • Bunswalla

        I know it’s weird isn’t it – it’s almost as if these idiots don’t understand who it is that fulfils the “trade” part of Free Trade Agreements. Sure there are plenty of SMEs that will also benefit, but mostly it’s big companies and corporates doing the trading.

        • johnbronkhorst

          If they want to hit them. They could always do what the yanks did, as consumers, before the 2nd Iraq war. They refused to buy French goods because the French Govt. refused to stop dealing with sadam hussein. This was the people, not the US Govt. It nearly killed the French wine industry.
          As consumers YOU have the power! Stop insisting OTHERS do something on your behalf!

  • Mr Sackunkrak

    Assorted fruit loops telling me what to think. Just another day in the asylum.

  • Patrick

    Rogues gallery of hand wringers who either still are or have at some stage spent their days sucking off the public tit. I fail to see why anyone would think these wankers should be used to shape political opinion. just a bunch of try hards.

  • tarkwin

    I’m surprised Hone isn’t in with this lot. They probably couldn’t get hold of him – he’s too busy swanning around on the taxpayers credit card.

    • johnbronkhorst

      Haven’t heard anything from him for a while. Too busy visiting his nephew’s in jail. Making sure they don’t squeal on him and him end up in there with them?

      • tarkwin

        He’s probably hanging round Grey Lynn trying to stop Bunnings or anything else that resembles progress.

  • Was it money that pushed Hooton over to the Dark Side?

  • Blue Tim

    Hypocrites aided and abetted by Her Majesty’s loyal opposition in the print, radio & TV

  • longjohn

    That Radar wanker has been sucking off the tax payer via TVNZ forever! The others are no better.

  • Bad__Cat

    All the usual suspects!

    If I were in a life or death situation, and had to pick from that lot for help, first I would shit myself, then I would make my peace with my God, then I would head off in the other direction as a good first option.

33%