Itoldyaso! – John Key

Prime Minister John Key says New Zealand intelligence agencies are monitoring individuals with “similar characteristics” to the man behind Sydney’s deadly hostage drama.

Three people, including gunman Man Haron Monis, are dead after the Martin Pl siege ended in a volley of gunfire shortly after 2am local time today (4am NZT).

Key said the Ministry of Foreign Affairs this morning were not aware that any Kiwis were involved but it still had imperfect information and was continuing to monitor the situation.

Key said New Zealand’s risk assessment had not changed as a result of events across the Tasman though the independent group responsible for monitoring the situation may meet to review that.

And he confirmed that among the 30 to 40 individuals identified as a threat to New Zealand’s national security were those who had “not identical but similar characteristics” to Monis.

“If you think about the sort of characteristics of the person that could be attracted to these kinds of actions they need to be often…..disenfranchised, sometimes mentally unwell, perceptible to the sorts of messages that Isis are pumping out by their social media and outreach campaign and believers of the extreme version of Islam.

“When all those characteristics congregate together you have a toxic combination and that’s what you see both in Canada and Australia.

“So from New Zealand’s point of view theres a very small group of people in that category.

“We do our best to monitor them but as you can see these people in Australia and Canada were all known to the authorities, so it shows you how high the threshold is before someone can actually be detained – and that’s the challenge between freedom and liberty and keeping New Zealanders safe,” Key said.

Translated:  It could happen here, and in spite of our shored up laws, we are still unable to protect Kiwi citizens from similar nutbars if they choose to act. 

The gunman at the centre of the Sydney siege was among a number of homegrown terrorists being targeted by IS, Key said.

The attack was an act of “cowardice”, and he said New Zealand’s hearts went out to all Australians.

“It’s a terrible tragedy isn’t it? Our hearts and thoughts go out not only to the families of the victims and the hostages, but actually to all Australians.” Key said on Firstline.

“Australia’s our nearest neighbour, they’re our greatest mates, we consider ourselves to be very similar in the way we go about our lives.

“I think Australia will be really hurting, and indeed the world is as we see some people lose their lives in an utter act of cowardice, and so close to Christmas.”

But he rejected arguments that the attack might not have happened if Australian troops were not in Iraq.

“Some people want to make that link and make that case, but in the end, what we see is ISIL and these domestic terrorist attacks which is the result of part of their teachings, building in intensity and spreading around the world,” he said.

“You can always make the case that says if Australia and Canada weren’t involved in the war against ISIS then they wouldn’t be subjected to the these domestic terrorist attacks.

“But the counter-argument to that is that ISIL is growing in its resources and its outreach, and as it gets stronger and more influential then those risks grow exponentially as well.”

I think we’ll see our own home-grown incident in the near future.  Unless our security services manage to get ahead of it.

We can but hope.

 

– Stacey Kirk, Stuff

 


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Tagged:
  • ozbob68

    Andrea Vance categorises this level response as “crass opportunism”.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/64202584/Crass-opportunism-in-wake-of-siege

    • R&BAvenger

      You beat me to it. Yes, you have to hand it to the MSM and lefties any opportunity to attack John key, regardless of reality.
      If it doesn’t fit ‘their reality’ then you shape it to do so.
      Crass opportunism actually characterises all the Key-orientated attacks coming from the MSM and opposition parties over this and other security matters.
      Irony much??

      • Captain Darling

        A new phrase “crass Journalism” to describe some of these so called journalists.

        • ozbob68

          At least she is getting a pasting in the comments, from what is usually a left-leaning readership at fairfax.

          • Captain Darling

            Yes, I left my 2 cents worth.

          • sarahmw

            what a crass person who writes opinionated articles for an ever decreasing MSM outfit. Andrea ,you are cutting off your nose to spite your face. Freed is coming Halleluiah!

          • Wheninrome

            one could liken it to the band continuing to play even though the ship is sinking.

          • jude

            It can’t come soon enough for some of us!!

    • The Whinging Pom

      Another nail in the coffin of MSM credibility, though.

      It seems that the lefties in the media have as much as a feel for ordinary people’s views as do their fellow travelers in any of the parties to the left of centre.

      So they plug away as loudly as they can with their minority opinions, not realising that every time the open their mouths the general public’s eyes are opened a little more to how disastrous it would be if they or their cronies got back into power.

      OK, Andrea, we get it that you didn’t like it that JK won the election. We get it that you were against the new security measures he brought in. But look at the election result, and see how few people support your point of view. And read the comments on your opinion piece (providing they don’t get edited for ‘balance’ by Stuff) to see how most people think you’re way off the pace here.

    • jaundiced

      There is certainly crass opportunism here – by Andrea Vance to attack John Key.
      As one commenter said on the stuff article, ‘the media questions him, he answers and now it is him taking an opportunity???’
      Its no better opportunity to remind New Zealanders, and especially those opposed to the anti-terror laws, that we need to take this threat seriously.

      • jude

        The comments appear to have disappeared on stuff ! It must mean that very few support or agree with ms Vance?
        Poor moderating in that case then.

        • Crookednose

          The comments are there, but I think they are tied to ad blockers if you use them. I disabled mine and bingo – comments.

          • jude

            Ok thanks for that.I will give that a go.Just to reassure myself there are kiwis out there who can see how the MSM are trying, still ,to manipulate public opinion!

    • Joe_Bloggs

      Beat me to it as well. At least she’s being called out on her crass opportunism / journalism in the comments.

      And not a single, solitary word in her drivelling diatribe about Angry Andy’s support for the new powers, or his comment that the sorts of risks the law dealt with “are real”…

      Adrea you need to accept the fact that National won and your side lost. get over it, and move on.

  • Dazza

    This reporter Vance needs to be packed off to the nearest ISIL camp site and asked to walk with her poor misrepresented Muslims and take her mate Nils with her. Vance is so disconnected it is not funny, ask the people on board the buses July 2005 if they had a choice of “I will ride with you”!!!

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/64202584/Crass-opportunism-in-wake-of-siege

    • The Whinging Pom

      She won’t do that.

      A bit like the judges who let child molesters go free to live in communities, but not their own.

      Or politicians who support dropkick teachers in failing schools but buy a decent education for their own kids by moving to a posh area with a good school.

      Or architects who want to build little city centre boxes for others whilst living in large sections in leafy suburbs themselves.

  • Monty

    I want the lives of my family and friends to be protected for the risks of the nutters who these days are inevitably Muslim and want to kill indiscriminatingly . I am prepared to sacrifice a tiny bit of my civil liberties for that protection, or at least a reduction in risk.
    Now lets see The Green Taliban and Winston go and give this misunderstood nutters a little hug.

  • botti

    The risk grows because the Western world has decided it would be a good idea to have a sizeable Muslim population. Unless immigration from Islamic countries is restricted the problem will get worse.

    The following seems to be the case:

    a) significant local Muslim population in the West
    +
    b) Western military engagement in the Middle East
    =
    c) Local terrorism in the West.

  • what should be done is these nutjobs that spout their hate speech and live in this country while preaching jihad and beheadings, they should be given a one way ticket to somewhere more in tune with their ideology (guantanamo bay would be a preferred option) – lock em up or ship em out

    Id love to hear to howls of protest if it was a white supremist spouting out tripe about wanting to kill some minority group

    Time for the Greens, Vance, Smalley and Co to pull their heads out of the sand (or the other place im sure they have them most the time) and realise that the needs of random law obiding citizens far outway the rights of some crazy jihadist

    • Wheninrome

      We did have a member of a group here promote “kill a white” not so long ago.

      • nothing wrong with “kill a white” (apparently)
        the outrage, howling and public protests by the great unwashed only start when you suggest doing that to some or other minority group

  • KinaRolf

    The underlying message is clear. Join the USA in its raid and terror activities against other Middle East and other countries, and suffer the consequences. War has no longer any borders, and neutrality is best to avoid being attacked by either side in a conflict. On one side here we have US terrorism with drones, bombings and surveillance, on the other side we have terrorism events demonstrated recently in Sydney. Do kiwis really want to join either side? Just now we are clearly with the US terrorism.

    • spanishbride

      If you lay down your weapons because of fear of how other countries who are fighting the enemy are being targeted, that is not neutrality, that is capitulation.

      • KinaRolf

        It is much simpler than that. If you start shooting at someone who is armed, they will shoot back. You stop shooting, they stop shooting. You start shooting at someone who is armed, which is the way to make them your enemy. They will shoot at you.

        • Wheninrome

          And if they shoot first?

          • KinaRolf

            They did not shoot first and they were not armed. The armed up after being shot at.

          • johnbronkhorst

            Rubbish.
            These people were helped and armed by the USA and Britain to fight and defend themselves against the Russians, in Afganistan.
            The thanks for that was…USS Cole, 9/11, Somalia (black hawk down) the London bus bombings, beheading of many media people, good Samaritans, army drummers, Madrid train bombings, kidnapping and raping (marrying [really?]) of young girls…the list is far too long for here.

          • Wheninrome

            As you describe it is most certainly not the way I wish to live.

          • KinaRolf

            Neither do I, but just too many people are living that life today. Some just did in Sydney.

          • johnbronkhorst

            Forced on them by a nutter with a gun.

          • KinaRolf

            Yes, and a “nutter” that felt he was handed a reason to do it. Remove the reason and you remove the nutters.

          • johnbronkhorst

            NOT true and NEVER has been.

          • I don’t know what planet you live on Rolf but sadly your ideas are so out of touch with today’s reality I despair. I served my time in the armed forces and am proud that in so doing people like you have the opportunity to express your beliefs. But you are drawing a long bow when you describe NZ and the US as the Fourth Reich.
            Certainly the West has been responsible for many conflicts, but far more lay at the hands of the church and religious or personal extremism. We live in an age where neutrality is not an option for any Western Nation as ISIS extremists seek and will constantly seek ‘soft targets’ Is there merit in blowing hundreds up in a crowded market because they don’t share your beliefs, hacking the heads off innocent people? Seeking a pathetic moment of glory by holding up a coffee shop, for God’s sake.
            NZ is a soft target and extremists will gain huge kudos by destroying a little of our paradise.

          • KinaRolf

            I don’t believe New Zealand IS the Fourth Reich, but by openly proclaiming is a supporter, we will draw the fire on us. Just watch Australia, USA, Canada, and now Pakistan. Any particular reason you want New Zealand to be the next place for the American war. Better to keep our heads down, stay as invisible as possible, and not invite them by declaring our participation. .

          • KinaRolf

            I think you need to go a bit further back to read up on the history, not only pull out odd later events. What was the reason for the USS Cole and the Black Hawk in Somalia doing there in the first place? It is certainly not US home territory. Madrid, 9/11 and now Sydney are all retaliation, “shooting back” if you like. IS itself, with its grizzly propaganda, is a consequence of the interference of the group where New Zealand is a member. Had not leaders been assassinated by the US, IS would not have eventuated.

          • johnbronkhorst

            Would like a shovel for that pile, you are playing in?
            The weapons supplied to the Afgan fighters was in the 1980’s

          • KinaRolf

            And the Vietnam war was in the – when was it? And when was it the US gave Saddam war gas to kill the Iranians? And when did the US fight the Japanese to take control of China? And when was it the British sent in the gunboats to force the Opium sales to China? It all goes back a long time.

          • johnbronkhorst

            and did not involve the muslims at all.
            Careful how many straws you clutch at in the vain attempt to make your argument relevant.

          • KinaRolf

            No – it did not. The common denominator is US quest for world control. Someone else tried that already in the 1930s

          • johnbronkhorst

            What utter rubbish. How many colony’s do the USA have??
            OOOOHHH….none.
            idiot

          • KinaRolf

            As I Know, “colonies” as military bases, agents, spy centres, and economic control mechanisms in Japan, Philippines, South Korea, Australia, New Zealand, Iraq, Afghanistan, just as examples. And thanks for the compliment. Who is the “judge”

          • johnbronkhorst

            and Kosavo? Where the USA and Europeans lost their sons defending MUSLIMS without any help from any muslim country or organisation.

          • Wheninrome

            Your earlier post talks about shooting at someone who is armed which is the way to make them your enemy.
            Now you say they armed up after being shot at, I find that hard to believe.

          • KinaRolf

            Fair comment, lets correct it, “shooting at someone unarmed so the arm up and shoot back”. Better?

        • ozbob68

          Will Hamas stop shooting when Israel lays down its guns? Some men just want to watch the world burn.

          • KinaRolf

            True, and ask yourself why they want the world to burn. Without
            the massive superiority in US
            weapons aid, maybe Israel
            would be more willing to settle for a peace.

          • spanishbride

            You can’t settle for peace with a people dedicated to the total destruction of your civilization.

          • KinaRolf

            Without the cartoon I would have thought you were talking about the USA. “Death to everyone who does not do what we tell them”.

          • johnbronkhorst

            The truth of evidence a stranger to you? even on the planet where you live?

          • KinaRolf

            No- I am just outside the propaganda bubble which has the blinds down. It is easier to see more than one side of the story that way.

          • johnbronkhorst

            No…you are creating the propaganda that serves the blind hatred and intollerense that is ISIS

          • johnbronkhorst

            They want the world to burn for the same reason all psychopaths do…so they can be king of the ashes.

          • KinaRolf

            Have you ever considered – WHY.

          • johnbronkhorst

            They are pychopaths!!!!!!

          • KinaRolf

            Maybe your way of looking at it, but hardly theirs, and they control their own actions, not you.

          • johnbronkhorst

            They wouldn’t be psychopaths if they knew they were. Their actions distinguish them as such.

        • Melissa

          Say that to the famiy of the unarmed aid worker who was captured and beheaded by Isis

          • KinaRolf

            Yes – true, and keep repeating it to the many hundreds of thousand that has been “beheaded” by the US, starting 1945 in Hiroshima, through 9/11 and Iraq, and still going on.

        • spanishbride

          Israel stopped shooting and tried to appease the Palestinians. They gave them land. What did they get, yeah that’s right, rockets daily and tunnels under the border as well as suicide bombers. When you put down your arms the enemy does NOT put down theirs. They take advantage of the situation to destroy you. Any student of history will tell you that.

          • KinaRolf

            You mean, gave them land, as on the west bank, and populated it with radicals. It does not quite gel in my mind. I am not trying to blame just Israel, but they swing the real power.

        • DemocKot

          How do you perceive the motivation of the USSR to attack Finland in 1939 then?? re the unarmed and armed scenario you describe or the Finnish civil war I have explored the battlefields from the Russian site interesting….

          • KinaRolf

            The USSR attack on Finland was to expand the territory and gain access to Baltic ports and raw materials, and a first step to do the same with the entire Scandinavian Peninsula. Chrustjiev was quite open about that on his old age. It is an exact copy of the Third Reich attack on the Dutch and Norway, to be used as a base to conquer Britain, or the US venture into Vietnam to control China. All territorial gains. The present “war” is about ideology, and economic control, not territory. It is new and very different and old valuations and “honorable stands” do no longer apply. The attacks in Canada or Sydney were not about territorial gain.

        • Eiselmann

          You do realise that the Islamic State regard all the world as Islamic territory created by Allah for the faithful, that includes New Zealand. We follow your tactic and let IS grow in strength and one day black flags will be flown in this country and they won’t have silver ferns on them. ..this is a problem the west ignores at its own peril.

          • KinaRolf

            Principle is right, but a minor correction, they don’t regard all the world as Islamic territory, but they aim to convert it to just that. Any particular reason you want to invite them to treat New Zealand with priority for a conversion. Best way to achieve that is probably to actively join the American war and shout it from the rooftops. Don’t forget, the 141 children killed in Pakistan was retaliation for Malalas Nobel Price, the Sydney siege was openly and in writing retaliation for the “US terrorism”. In their eyes, if Kiwis join the ”US terrorism” the American war moves to New Zealand. I don’t think they will politely knock on the door and ask for an opinion. When the bullets fly, keep your head down and go invisible instead of standing up and joining the fight, and get shot at.

    • R&BAvenger

      So, do we take it that you would have been happy to join Chamberlain back in 1938?

      • KinaRolf

        At that time the Third Reich was the attacker, today the Fourth Reich, AKA USA and allied New Zealand, is the attacker. Stop reading the daily propaganda. Just as a suggestion.

        • johnbronkhorst

          So I say again….9/11 never happened on your planet??

          • KinaRolf

            It certainly did, I was sitting working on a software project across from the court house in Auckland when it happened. 6,000 people died, and another 346,000 in the US lead invasion of Iraq, keep adding a few more such events and we are soon nearing the tally of the holocaust.

          • johnbronkhorst

            The VAST amount of people killed in Iraq was and is due to sectarian violence perpetrated by muslim factions.

          • KinaRolf

            That is true to an extent, but without the US invasion, they still would have been alive today.

          • johnbronkhorst

            That is true…full stop!!!!

            but without the US invasion…..we would still have Sadam Hussein gassing Kurds, invading his neighbours and killing his own citizens for daring to disagree with him.

          • KinaRolf

            Now the Kurds get killed too, just in more numbers and in a more ruthless way, and many more with them. It was not nice before, now it is worse than hell. The figure came from an investigation by a New York consultancy. The 346,000 would have been alive today if the US invasion had not eventuated. It has been accepted as correct. Not all the people were killed by the Americans.

          • johnbronkhorst

            Yes…the Kurds are killed by ISIS.
            No…they wouldn’t Hussein would have killed them.

          • Nechtan

            Just under 3000 died in the 9/11 attacks.
            I’m not sure where you get 6000 from.

          • KinaRolf

            Sorry for the typo, you are right.

        • Kendall

          No this action in Syria et al. will not happened unless the government request our help. We are not the ones killing and raping non-combatants.
          You might need to take your own advice.

    • AlanB

      Neutrality is best to avoid being attacked….Tell that to the Dutch.

      • KinaRolf

        Could I recommend a bit of historical reading. The reason for the attack on the Dutch was not their neutrality, but to be able to use their territory to attack Britain. I think a neutral New Zealand would have a most minimal risk of a repeat. If New Zealand actively participate as an attacker, that would significantly increase the risk for retaliation.

        • johnbronkhorst

          It was the Dutch that declared their neutrality in WW2 and the GERMANS that ignored it.
          Neutrality is only of value when all sides accept it.
          Rendering your statement stupid beyond belief.

          • KinaRolf

            True, and the neutrality was not a factor at all. With our without it they would have been invaded. It is a red herring.

          • johnbronkhorst

            So…with or without our involvement we WILL be attacked by these radicals….may as well be in the fight then and help the rest of the world rid ourselves of these rodents.

          • KinaRolf

            I disagree. New Zealand was, and still is, a peaceful country, let be kiwis of all breeds love an argument, so why should New Zealand join the anti-IS, declare itself an enemy, and get “shot at”. I just don’t see the point, but maybe some people can see the Sydney evens as the “point” of not getting into the mess.

          • johnbronkhorst

            Our history would disagree with you.
            We have “been in” EVERY major conflict for about the past 125 years. That is why we are respected…..we help our mates.

          • KinaRolf

            Maybe not every conflict, but what has changed is that the war is no longer confined to a specific territory, and I don’t really like to see New Zealand be one of the conflict zones. New Zealand WAS respected, but after the discovery that New Zealand is an active participant in what is seen as US aggression, that is changing. The latest news, first hand form observer on site, is that New Zealand wine has been removed from the shelves, as is baby formula, New Zealand is removed as a recommend place for study, and not a preferred tourist destination.

          • johnbronkhorst

            Both boar wars
            WW1
            WW2
            Korea
            Malay insurgency
            Vietnam
            Afganistan
            Iraq
            did I miss any?

          • Nechtan

            A great many peacekeeping missions.

          • Kendall

            And three of those where at the request of the governments of their country, two where UN scactined operations art 7 I think, and East Timor started as a conflict (yes we did shoot people) and became a UN art 6 op.

          • KinaRolf

            That is true for the past, but non of those conflicts was on New Zealand soil. This American war can well move to Aotearoa if Kiwis starts participate in any form. Think Sydney, Canada or latest Pakistan. Who’s next? The latest Pakistan massacre was openly against Malalas Nobel Price, the Sydney evens openly declared as an action against “US terrorism”, and the US has been fighting the Taliban’s now I think for 10 years with no result. Does anyone really want to bring the action to New Zealand. Not me.

          • Nechtan

            “Why should NZ join the anti-IS?”
            Because they are an abomination hell bent on enforcing their religious beliefs on all in their path. They use terror, rape, and the force of arms to enslave innocent people and kill those who don’t comply with them. Should we stand by idly and let this evil spread? Should we not help those in their path and under their thumb?
            The argument that by joining the fight it makes a target is null, by being a non-IS state we already are.

          • KinaRolf

            I agree, so why do you want to invite them to New Zealand to practice their trade by shouting from the rooftops and joining the fight. Australia, US, Canada and Pakistan just did. Keep your head down, stay invisible, and don’t draw their attention to you as their enemy.

        • AlanB

          No, you may not recommend a bit of historical reading to me. My reading of history is in fact rather extensive. Why do you assume an opinion not in accordance with yours is the product of ignorance?

          • KinaRolf

            Maybe the difference is that you read about it, and I lived it, at least partly. Reading a book and meeting the people and see with your own eye is quite a difference. None of the past conflicts has been on New Zealand soil, what about tomorrow. My message, don’t send any invitations, it may be accepted.

    • Crookednose

      If we wanted to be truly neutral we would need a military so good that no one would want to mess with it. It would also mean compulsory military training. Many citizens in such countries do a minimum of 2yrs then have refreshers a few times a year.
      Does that sound like you?

      • KinaRolf

        I grew up in the shadow of the Soviet Union and the cold war, I did 2 years I uniform, and my instructor was an old-timer who served in the Finnish winter war. His own stories really made you very peace loving and to realize what it was/is really like. He was a machine gunner and his part in the war ended when he was shot through the mouth, the bullet missed the spine, and the scar was difficult to argue over.

    • johnbronkhorst

      You are aware that NZers died on 9/11 too?
      That planes were flown into the twin towers a full year before drones were even considered for use?

      • KinaRolf

        And some 6,000 others, is that really important. All of them had families and friends. 346.000 died in the US invasion of Iraq alone. They also had families and friends, what about the other countries attacked with drones and bombs, and the retaliation that followed. When will it come to Kiwi land? Drones may not have been in use before 9/11, think Vietnam, Nagasaki, Hiroshima, carry on.

        • PhantomsDoc

          KinaRolf, which group of people have killed the most Muslims (the religion of peace)?

          • Nechtan

            Other Muslims ?

          • PhantomsDoc

            Yep, by far.

    • Excitedly awaiting Whodunnit

      True, its not about countries or colour/race any more. The bad guys dont wear a uniform or a badge to show you who they are. They are the guy next door , the lady down the street, the group of kids on the corner. They are now among us and all it takes is the right trigger or motivation for them to act ;much like any of us, but their actions are religiously based, hate filled and often out of the blue.

      • KinaRolf

        If you want to join the American terrorist war, can I suggest you should go to Iraq, Syria, Pakistan or Afghanistan to do it. What could the reason be to move it to New Zealand. Ask Sydney, Canada, or people in Peshawar what it is like.

        • Excitedly awaiting Whodunnit

          But by going there we bring it here. Isnt that the problem?

          And sorry but we have been there and they live here too.

          From my understanding of islam not being a muslim makes you a target regardless of your position on the globe.

          Perhaps you could go there and explain why they should leave us alone.

          • KinaRolf

            “By going there we bring it here”, I completely agree, unfortunately. “They live here”, I also agree, but do we really want to make New Zealand their first priority for conversion by aggregating and escalating with confrontation. Remember the Sydney event, uncomfortable close, and the message from the Iranian born Man Haron Monis. He was “fighting US terrorism”, as bombings, drone attacks, CIA torture, etc. That was his side of the coin, right or wrong from our perspective. I don’t think “explanations” will cut it. Do you accept his explanation to justify the siege? Probably not, don’t expect other to accept ours. Remember, before the Busch regime there were no IS, USA created it, so let them sort it out. If Kiwis join in we become the targets too and we can’t achieve anything anyway.

  • unitedtribes

    I was arguing with a friend who insisted that Islam was a religion of piece. When I asker her what the hell ISIS were fighting about then she said that they must be fighting for peace !
    This reminded me of another quote:
    “fighting for peace is like shagging for virginity

  • Justsayn

    Key was right to see a risk where there clearly was one. Not rocket science, unless…

    Key gets to seem so very right about the SIS stuff and at the same time doesn’t have to answer questions about the budget deficit…

    Hang on a sec….

    It’s a new book for Hager – The National party dirty tricks black-op group codenamed whalemeat plants an irate irrationational idiot imam in inner Sydney to initiate incoherent insanity the instant an imminent and infinitesimal deficit issue is intended for introduction… Pick the eye’s out of that Nicky, and get me extra tinfoil!

  • Crookednose

    I can’t believe the rubbish coming out of Radio Live. Very much pandering to the anti US, anti Key brigade. Ali and Willy talking over/cutting off people that had a different pov to their touchy feely attitude.
    Andrea Vance (surprise, surprise) has a scathing opinion piece on Key “politicising” the siege.
    Some of the callers have a real venom in their voices.
    What also irritates is that they’re going on and saying that if “Key didn’t involve us” in the middle east etc. Excuse me – weren’t Phil & Helen in charge for most of NZ’s time supporting the US?
    Also, I can’t believe that Ali Mau considering her sexuality, can’t get her head around the whole adapt to your new home, not us change to yours. What does she think would happen to her & her partner in the middle east?
    Seriously, I’m seething at these apologists.

    • The best part about them being on the radio is you can turn it off – and invest your time here…

      Solved it for you… Merry Christmas too…

      • stephen2d

        I am getting rather jittery until Freed is here. When is it going to be here???

    • kayaker

      Back in the day when Ali started in television she had a bit of class. I’ve heard her recently (once is enough) – she seems to have degenerated to white trash.

    • R&BAvenger

      You can only breath a sigh of relief that there were many fewer of these apologists and isolationists prior to the outbreak of WW2.
      Things and people were less sophisticated those days. It seems that the more ‘sophisticated’ society becomes, the less common sense there is and the level of stupidity increases exponentially also.

  • R&BAvenger

    We must all remember that we have already had ‘our’ incident, committed by a muslim of unsound mind. It’s nearly 7 years ago now, but this event could have ended in tragedy. The fact it didn’t was just pure luck.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/259447/Foiled-hijack-attempt-Pilots-fight-for-control

    I for one, do not wish to rely on luck and the crass opportunism of the opposition and their msm repeaters to paint everything as paranoia and a right-wing conspiracy against freedom.
    If we have another tragedy involving fatalities I’d rather that the government had made efforts to address the issue, than have to be asked “Why didn’t you do anything?”

    • R&BAvenger

      Oh, and remember also, that this event referred to in the link above occurred during the good old days of Aunty Helen’s ‘benign defence environment’.

  • Wheninrome

    This has become the unfortunate reality of life in the 21st century. We have bent over backwards to give refugees from other countries, beliefs etc., the chance of a better life as N Z residents, and then citizens.
    Australia takes a much larger percentage share than most countries, we also take refugees. We try and help them fit in, we do not require them to give up their religious beliefs, we only ask that they abide by NZ’s laws.
    Most are more than happy to fit in and become productive citizens of the country, their children become high achievers and so on.
    I ask What is the problem for the minority who fail the simple test of being law abiding and promote hate, and why are we not revoking their right to stay in NZ.
    NZ does not allow over stayers to remain even when productive and not committing crimes.

    • botti

      Because we are beholden to progressive bodies like the UN and terrified of appearing illiberal.

    • MaryLou

      We also have some concerning people that fit that profile, except they’re as indigenous to NZ as you can get rather than new arrivals. What do we do with them?

      • Wheninrome

        Unfortunately we have to keep our own and deal with them with the laws of the land. One could argue the laws should be tougher and the jail sentences longer.

      • Rocket

        I know, along with many others, just exactly who you refer to.

        • johnnymanukau.

          I would sincerely hope his Whanau is keeping an eye on him and the whole 5 eyes.

    • Sagacious Blonde

      We bent over backwards to accommodate anything and anyone who would get Helen Clark her sinecure at the UN post-Prime Minister-ship.

  • LabTested

    Hacked from the UK Telegraph

  • 1951

    Ms Vance, why don’t you invite some of those marchers who followed Minto down Queen St., round for Christmas drinkies to your place. I think 20-30 should be enough. Go on girl, put out yourself out there for the cause. I dare you to. Then come back to the keyboard and tell us about it all and then we may just listen.

  • Gaynor

    After venturing out to read Stuff and the Andrea Vance vile opinion piece I have slunk back to Whale Oil and I am staying here for my news until I am FREED.

    • Go Home

      Why even bother with that awful website in the first place?

    • R&BAvenger

      Me too. I have made it a policy post-election to never comment on Stuff articles again. I am patiently waiting to be FREED .

    • Dairy_Flat

      With you on this. After seeing that disgusting opinion piece on stuff, they can get stuffed – now removed from the favourites list so bye bye stuff.

      • Edward Bufe

        If you carry on reading stuff you will soon be stuffed. Stuff has been stuffed for some time now. I have a high pressure problem and have discovered the best cure for it is to stay away from the lefty propaganda MSN. If you read Stuff you may as well read the Herald or should I say The Horrible.

  • Bart67

    Would Andrea Vance prefer if John Key waited until some innocent new Zealanders were killed before taking action against domestic militants and radicals? Of course, if THAT was to happen, she and her ilk would be strident in the condemnation of John Key’s inaction in not preventing the needless deaths of innocent kiwi’s, with much wailing and beating of breasts!
    John Key probably realises that no matter what he does, or does not do, there are people like Ms Vance who will always find fault. He can only do that which allows him to sleep at night, and I beleive in acting to safeguard ALL New Zealanders, he is able to do exactly that!

    • Excitedly awaiting Whodunnit

      Unfortunately Bart you are right. Those on the left (and some on the right) forget that their lifestyle and the NZ they live in is a tenuous and fragile thing. If a group of nutters decided to make an impact in NZ then NZ’s defenders would be playing catch up and all because the Jihadi Huggers are enabling their freedom and forcing us to accept their beliefs etc even though they are anathema to our current society.

      I wonder how Vance and Smalley would feel about their position within the new order should it come about. No opinion other than their husbands, no freedom to associate with whomever the like, no rights, their female daughters, nieces etc being denied education and finally being deemed property.

      It is not a society I would choose to be part of and they can be damn sure that although their intentions may be honourable, those they are assisting do not have the same ideals and will use our gullibility to their own ends. We are lucky that we have a moat around us to repel the hoards who would like to live here, but unfortunately that belief that we are isolated and protected gives us a false sense of security. That moat has been breached, there are some amongst us that are already seeking to undermine our lifestyle and society.

      During the time when our military etc were scaled down as being too expensive and not really needed our allies were trying desperately to get us to reconsider. They referred to NZ as fairy land because we (or leaders anyway) believe we are in a land of happiness and no problems ever.

      Unfortunately I think we will rue those decisions and it will take a catastrophe for the naysayers to come to the party, but unfortunately they will probably still come down on the wrong side and the govt of the day will be pilloried because of their inaction.

      We joke about the zombie/vampire etc apocalypse and how we will have to defend our homes but maybe that is more true than we ever dared to think.

  • JC

    “we are still unable to protect Kiwi citizens from similar nutbars if they choose to act.”

    If this guy is a nutbar what do we call the 16% of French citizens who likewise support ISIL.. or the at least 100 million Muslims who are sympathetic to at least one of the various Islamic terrorist groups?

    Just because a guy rants stupidly about the wonders of ISIL or actually starts his own campaign of terror is no reason to call him nuts.. he is simply answering a very loud call to fully practice his religion. He’s a terrorist and that’s all there is to it.

    JC

  • Alright

    Nutbar Vance and Nutbar Smalley get their oxygen from annoying normal people.

    They do it on purpose. Its a puerile game.

    ….and that can be the only explanation. Otherwise they are just certifiably mad.

    • Crookednose

      Oh dear, what great piece of wisdom will Smalley offer us? It’s bound to be a copy & paste of Vance’s.

    • botti

      It’s just their Leftist mindset. Baddies are westerners, Christians, corporations, men, particularly white men. The idea that Muslims or minorities might be dangerous terrorists is anathema to their worldview.

    • symgardiner

      Vance just had a big moan in an opinion piece on STUFF. She is so out of touch.

      • Alright

        Just “out of touch?” I suspect it is more of a medical condition, e.g. brain damage.

      • Timboh

        Not necessarily. She is a mercenary trying to sell her opinion to us. Ignore her and she will wither.

    • Cadwallader

      In Smalley’s case she is certifiably stupid. I suspect she’s too dumb to do anything on purpose.

  • Catriona

    Monitor! These people are highly unpredictable and need more than monitoring. Too late for the people in Sydney today. That guy should have been deported back to Iran surely as a result of the hit job on his ex-wife.
    The 30- 40 crazy individuals here in NZ who are being ‘monitored’ most likely aren’t being monitored hard enough. Some will create mayhem.
    Oh, I forgot, that won’t ever happen here according to the 27 who voted against the anti-terrorism bill.

    • Mark Schmid

      Most of these crazies are on whaleoil anyway…so tracking is easy.

  • Sally

    Norman has still got his head in the sand. pic

    • Catriona

      Just as well you will never ever get your hands on the reigns in Parliament now isn’t it Russell. Your anti stance on this issue is astounding.

    • johnbronkhorst

      Make that speech to the families of the dead, injured and traumatised, ….Russel!!
      Bet you are too chicken and will hide behind twitter and parliamentary privilege.

    • R&BAvenger

      Yes, this is why he and the rest of the opposition parties are in opposition and will stay in opposition for the time being.

    • Alright

      ….and I won’t be following your downward spiral Russell to another 25 years of being untenable for anything other than opposition. You total muppet.

    • Emjay

      ‘We call on politicians to offer a calm and considered response to the situation and not get ahead of the facts as they stand or use the situation to make political points.’
      Above was hacked from The Green Party Facebook page.
      One of these things is not like the others.

      • johnbronkhorst

        Before or after they were called on their ridiculous stance?

        • Sally

          Facebook comment was 5hrs before Norman’s comment

          • johnbronkhorst

            So they are fast, loose and disorganised with their response to things.
            Nothing new there.

    • What an effing idiot this man is.

      • Edward Bufe

        You have got it all wrong. He is not a man and never will be a man.

        • johnbronkhorst

          He is part of a group of politicians…all on the left…
          Who are wonder to modern medical science.
          The wonder is, that any mammal with this little brain function, can still be breathing.

    • Excitedly awaiting Whodunnit

      Head in the sand and pretend there isnt anything there.

      Well done Russel, well done. Or should that be sheikh Wussel? Typical socialist apologist clap trap.

      • Timboh

        I have heard him referred to as the “hippy hippy sheikh”

      • damm good thrashing

        I bet the Australians are glad that this particular Australian live over here/

    • Bryan

      what will you join? because you don’t seem joined to anything in this country
      simply russel “are you for us or against us”?

  • KGB

    We must remember that he was free to do what he did because, even though he was identified as a risk, the Australian justice system failed. When a man is Muslim, suspected of ordering his wife’s murder, and writing hate letters to diggers families, he should have been under lock & key.
    Our forgiving PC justice system will make the same mistakes here. While we continue to focus on suspects ‘rights’ we fail to protect ourselves.
    Two innocent people are dead because a judge let him be free.

  • just a thought …

    Check out this article from Andrea Vance ……. could she show any more one sided vitreol for John Key……. It’s disgraceful..

    .http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/64202584/Crass-opportunism-in-wake-of-siege

    • I have just read this absolute crap from Vance – even worse the ill informed and pathetic comments from the readership who seem to hang on her every word. These neo-liberal clowns will be the first to complain when something like this happens here and reading Keys balanced and genuine comments we see leadership in action. When the chips are down the Aussies are “our mates” and we stand by them.

      • WCMiner

        It just popped up on my facebook feed being promoted by Stuff. I’ve followed up with an e-mail advising of my unhappiness in their approach. If only there was subs to cancel.
        Looks like I’ll be steering clear of that website from now on.

    • who’stoblame

      Disgusting alright. Is she an import too? I wonder if she was a captive in that cafe what her thoughts would instead now be.

  • johnbronkhorst

    A little something for andrea vance, russel norman and kinarolf (below)

    IT IS THE SOLDIER

    It is the Soldier, not the minister
    Who has given us freedom of religion.

    It is the Soldier, not the reporter
    Who has given us freedom of the press.

    It is the Soldier, not the poet
    Who has given us freedom of speech.

    It is the Soldier, not the campus organizer
    Who has given us freedom to protest.

    It is the Soldier, not the lawyer
    Who has given us the right to a fair trial.

    It is the Soldier, not the politician
    Who has given us the right to vote.

    It is the Soldier who salutes the flag,
    Who serves beneath the flag,
    And whose coffin is draped by the flag,
    Who allows the protester to burn the flag.

    ©Copyright 1970, 2005 by Charles M. Province

  • Bert Piepoint

    TWAS THE NIGHT BEFORE CHRISTMAS,
    HE LIVED ALL ALONE,
    IN A ONE BEDROOM HOUSE MADE OF
    PLASTER AND STONE.

    I HAD COME DOWN THE CHIMNEY
    WITH PRESENTS TO GIVE,
    AND TO SEE JUST WHO
    IN THIS HOME DID LIVE.

    I LOOKED ALL ABOUT,
    A STRANGE SIGHT I DID SEE,
    NO TINSEL, NO PRESENTS,
    NOT EVEN A TREE.

    NO STOCKING BY MANTLE,
    JUST BOOTS FILLED WITH SAND,
    ON THE WALL HUNG PICTURES
    OF FAR DISTANT LANDS.

    WITH MEDALS AND BADGES,
    AWARDS OF ALL KINDS,
    A SOBER THOUGHT
    CAME THROUGH MY MIND.

    FOR THIS HOUSE WAS DIFFERENT,
    IT WAS DARK AND DREARY,
    I FOUND THE HOME OF A SOLDIER,
    ONCE I COULD SEE CLEARLY.

    THE SOLDIER LAY SLEEPING,
    SILENT, ALONE,
    CURLED UP ON THE FLOOR
    IN THIS ONE BEDROOM HOME.

    THE FACE WAS SO GENTLE,
    THE ROOM IN SUCH DISORDER,
    NOT HOW I PICTURED
    A UNITED STATES SOLDIER.

    WAS THIS THE HERO
    OF WHOM I’D JUST READ?
    CURLED UP ON A PONCHO,
    THE FLOOR FOR A BED?

    I REALIZED THE FAMILIES
    THAT I SAW THIS NIGHT,
    OWED THEIR LIVES TO THESE SOLDIERS
    WHO WERE WILLING TO FIGHT.

    SOON ROUND THE WORLD,
    THE CHILDREN WOULD PLAY,
    AND GROWNUPS WOULD CELEBRATE
    A BRIGHT CHRISTMAS DAY.

    THEY ALL ENJOYED FREEDOM
    EACH MONTH OF THE YEAR,
    BECAUSE OF THE SOLDIERS,
    LIKE THE ONE LYING HERE.

    I COULDN’T HELP WONDER
    HOW MANY LAY ALONE,
    ON A COLD CHRISTMAS EVE
    IN A LAND FAR FROM HOME.

    THE VERY THOUGHT
    BROUGHT A TEAR TO MY EYE,
    I DROPPED TO MY KNEES
    AND STARTED TO CRY.

    THE SOLDIER AWAKENED
    AND I HEARD A ROUGH VOICE,
    “SANTA DON’T CRY,
    THIS LIFE IS MY CHOICE;

    I FIGHT FOR FREEDOM,
    I DON’T ASK FOR MORE,
    MY LIFE IS MY GOD,
    MY COUNTRY, MY CORPS.”

    THE SOLDIER ROLLED OVER
    AND DRIFTED TO SLEEP,
    I COULDN’T CONTROL IT,
    I CONTINUED TO WEEP.

    I KEPT WATCH FOR HOURS,
    SO SILENT AND STILL
    AND WE BOTH SHIVERED
    FROM THE COLD NIGHT’S CHILL.

    I DIDN’T WANT TO LEAVE
    ON THAT COLD, DARK, NIGHT,
    THIS GUARDIAN OF HONOR
    SO WILLING TO FIGHT.

    THEN THE SOLDIER ROLLED OVER,
    WITH A VOICE SOFT AND PURE,
    WHISPERED, “CARRY ON SANTA,
    IT’S CHRISTMAS DAY, ALL IS SECURE.”

    ONE LOOK AT MY WATCH,
    AND I KNEW HE WAS RIGHT.
    “MERRY CHRISTMAS MY FRIEND,
    AND TO ALL A GOOD NIGHT.”

  • The Whinging Pom

    Interesting the Stuff has chosen, for one of its 5 quotes of the day, a comment backing up Vance’s rant against Key.

    I wonder if senior management will look at the balance of up votes and down votes in response to Vance’s piece and realise that they are rapidly alienating vast swathes of the NZ public from following their journals. How long will it be before the shareholders demand that the opinions expressed in the Fairfax media align sufficiently with public opinion to attract rather than repel customers?

    Isn’t it the fiduciary obligation of the board of directors to ensure that shareholder returns are maximised? I’d say that by reducing their rags to mouthpieces for minority views from smug left wing journalists they’re failing in this obligation and that as a result shareholders are being hit in the pocket.

  • Curly1952

    John Key has been telling us for ages about the threats that we have. And then a stupid “journalist” thinks she is in some parallel universe where threats don’t exist. Vance should wake up and smell the roses.

    • Mark Schmid

      Remember Tame Iti was a threat once too – just recently he got an apology from the chief of police…its impossible to make a nation completely safe – there always will be some psycho out there. I don’t think it is smart to surrender our remains of privacy completely.

  • Doc45

    I don’t buy this “unhinged”, “mentally unwell” stuff. The Islamic terrorist in Sydney had all his faculties and had them working well. He set himself up very smartly for the job. The only “unhinged” are law makers who leave the back door open and authorities for not sending them home again when it becomes absolutely obvious they are trouble.

  • Mark Schmid

    Just look at what it got America into – now many years after their law changes (you know the ones we are doing here now) they face the consequences – their remains of democracy in shambles over the torturing etc.- George W. Bush just cancelled his trip to Switzerland out of fear of getting arrested – and us down here, heads in the sand repeating their mistakes

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