Am I overstating the Muslim immigration threat?

Reader idbkiwi highlighted this in the comments yesterday.  I thought it was worth a wider audience.  In general, I tend to use the UK’s troubles with Islam and Muslim immigration.  Yesterday, I highlighted the case where the UK armed forces are now recommended not to wear their uniforms in public, lest they be a target.

In Sweden, this is even worse.  The Swedish police recently reported on 55 areas within Sweden where the Swedish rule of law no longer exists.

The Swedish police recently released a map of 55 areas where they publicly admit to having surrendered control to the criminal gangs. These areas have long had problems with mailmen, fire trucks and ambulances being attacked when trying to enter, which has led to them routinely requesting police escort. Now it’s the police being attacked outright.

These no-go zones are primarily so-called “exclusion areas” which is the politically correct term for the 186 ghettos that have sprung up around Sweden in the past two decades. These areas are predominantly populated by immigrants from muslim countries with low education and even lower employment rates. The exception being the enthusiastic entrepreneurs in the fields of drug dealing, protection rackets and robberies.

Since the real law doesn’t apply, the function of justice has largely been taken over by the gangs themselves, not unlike how the mafia is seen as the go-to place in rural Italy when the local police is too corrupt to serve its purpose. Unofficial courts are held and punishments are meted out based on the cultural norms of the dominant gangs. Some no-go areas even have vehicle checkpoints at the border. Not police checkpoints, but the gangs protecting their turf from law enforcement and rival gangs.

This development would have been inconceivable only 20 years ago, and one would think this official surrender by the police would have made big headlines. This is not the case; the most attention it seems to have received in mainstream media is an opinion piece in national paper Svenska Dagbladet.

It can be speculated that this is due to the fact that any reporting on this could be seen as “support” for nationalist party SD that wants to restrict the vast inflow to these ghettos, which is an absolute no-no amongst the journalists and could cost them their jobs. The world’s most extreme immigration from the MENA-region must continue unchallenged, and another 100 000+ must be added annually to the ghetto gangs’ recruitment base.

Edit: Scratch that. They just announced they’re setting the sights higher with a significantly increased immigration for 2015. The new forecast should put the total immigration above 200 000 per year by the time all is said and done.

Edit 2: Some readers have expressed disbelief that things really could be this bad in Sweden. Well, the ambulance union is now demanding military protection gear to enter these no-go zones. If the police releasing an official report isn’t enough, perhaps you will at least listen to the people having to work in these areas?

Edit 3: Another clue as to why the stuff happening in the Swedish ghettos is routinely hushed up and/or trivialized can be found in this remarkable article about the Ferguson riots. A Swedish journalist has figured out that plundering stores and burning cars is nothing but the evolution of democracy, and she wishes she was there to participate. No joke.

New Zealand is far, far away from this specific situation.   But we should learn from this.  We must seriously review the immigration of Muslims to this country.   We need to get over our squeamishness about being politically correct and not seen to be racists (Islam isn’t a race, by the way).  We need to shut the door, and firmly keep it shut.

Yes, it seems extreme, absurd, and extremely Islamophobic.

It is one thing to be the first to make these mistakes.  It would be a totally different situation if we allow this to develop with the full knowledge that it just requires numbers and time for the same problems to develop here.

We already have wanna-be ISIS fighters.  We already have people calling for Sharia law in small pockets of Avondale.

Do we have the political courage to act now?   Or is it going to take beheadings, flag burnings and calls for the Army to escort ambulances into parts of our cities before a far right nationalistic party takes control of our political system like the UKIP is expected to in Britain?

It crept up on Sweden in 20 years.   We have the luxury to prevent it.

 

– H/T idbkiwi, The Sweden Report

 


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  • friardo

    Is there any good reason why NZ should have any net immigration at all? The prime reason we like NZ is open space, lots and lots of it, much of it extremely beautiful.

    Any net increase in immigration results in a need for more infrastructure, increases population density and thoroughly balances out any financial benefit from rich immigrants. Around 4 million seems a good level at which to stop.

    • jaundiced

      Or at least manage the immigration flow to match our development of infrastructure, schools, housing etc. And not to mention a fit with our skill requirements – do we really need more taxi drivers? And of course compatibility with our values. Why invite people here who hate our values and want to impose their own.

    • BJ

      I value our open spaces and lifestyle above all the trappings NZ has insidiously bought into. I would have loved to live out my life without the rollercoaster we had little say in climbing aboard. We had something special in this country and for the want of ‘things’ we have now got all the negatives that go with them. I don’t want these immigrants – with increasingly bad aspects of others ideas and cultures we will soon be smothered till the NZ way of life is snuffed out forever.

      • mike

        What nz culture are you referring to? The very British culture that my grand parents grew up in our the americanised one my children are growing up in? Culture is not static, it changes as does society.

        • thehawkreturns

          The culture of democracy, freedom of speech and religious freedom, scientific progress. No Muslim can support these as they are contradictory to the teachings of the Koran.

          • mike

            Tell that to the original caliphate which accepted people of all faith.

            The crusades ended that culture and helped form the basis of militant Islam that we now know.

            And by the way Christians and Jews can be just as intolerant as every body else.

          • Kiwi

            The Islamic armies roared out of Arabia after the prophet Mohammed’s death and within a century had conquered from Spain in the west to India in the east (and Bhuddist Afghanistan) plus most of what was in between. None of these countries were muslim – that was Mohamed’s new ideology which was inflicted on non muslims who were not “peoples of the book”, Christians and Jews. Peoples of the book lived under harsh and humiliating restrictions and had to pay a poll tax to their new rulers. Hindus, Bhuddists pagans etc. had the choice of death or conversion to Islam.
            The crusades had nothing to do with an already militant Islam and everything to do with reclaiming Christian sites for the pilgrims who were being slaughtered and robbed by the new locals!

          • mike

            Much like the Romans roaring out of Rome conquering everybody and killing those who didn’t get in line.

          • Kiwi

            Yes – butythe Romans did not do it the name of any God. They were merely expanding their Empire for their own gratification.
            However, the Byzantium Empire also fell to the Islamic armies in the Levant.

            Look up the word “taqyia”.

          • mike

            Both campaigns of expansion were for power… the Caliphate used religion as their justification, the Romans were just more honest.

      • abbaby

        Don’t forget having to get on your knees to bow and say thank you.

    • Bretto

      A bigger market increases opportunities and brings prices down. That’s the only reason I can think of.

      • friardo

        At the cost of more infrastructure. I do wish economists, even the academic ones in universities would look at such things and publish them. Hmmm maybe someone has, I should have a look around before making such a presumption.

        • Bretto

          Yes but if economies of scale are true, the infrastructure costs per person are also lower. Personally I’m more than happy to pay more for everything compared to heavily populated countries with land borders. The lifestyle here is worth it imo.

  • bart jackson

    I was very surprised to see the weekend news about the mosque set up in Taihape by the new Muslim cop there. Little disturbed to see an immigrant Muslim cop on what could only have been a quota based recruitment. I come to this conclusion because he was a little guy with what can only be described as a pretty average command of spoken English. I am certainly uncomfortable about an immigrant muslim now having unfettered access to all the data n the Police computer system.

    • mike

      Or he is a dedicated professional who wants to give something back to the country that took him in and gave him and his family a decent life.

      Don’t judge someone until you know them.

      • thehawkreturns

        Well he certianly didn’t come here to quietly assimilate did he?

        First the mosque. Then the preaching. Then the no-go zones.
        In 50 years you will need to put a bypass around Taihape.

        • mike

          And the Christians who came here to “convert” the Maori?

          Come on be realistic, just because someone is a Muslim doesn’t automatically make them a terrorist, one might almost say that is a bigoted opinion.

          Unless you have proof that he is doing something illegal (and last time I checked we had the Freedom of Religion here in little old NZ) then all you are doing is defaming someone who puts on a uniform with the NZ flag on it, and protects the rights of all of us.

          • Kiwi

            It might pay to read the Qu’ran, ahadith and Sharia . According to their religious tenets it is every muslim’s duty to perform dawa in order to convert all non muslims to Islam. Only then will there be world peace.
            Plus read their hidstory, from the birth of this ideology it has been aggressive and parasitical.
            The ordinary muslim in the street must always support his brother over a non muslim even tho’ he nows his brother is lying. You have an ideology that lives in fear of its own plus their fear of going against the rules of Allah and not being allowed to enter paradise. So when the preachers of hate arrive, as they eventually will, the moderate muslim is petrified of what will happen to him if he does not toe the line.
            How do you think what has happened in Europe happened so easily in front of our eyes? The answer is that we do not fear our God or brothers and are allowed to choose our own paths and we cannot understand the muslim psyche. Muslims do not have any options and retribution awaits those that stray from the path of Sharia.
            Which is what Sharia means – the path. Step off at your peril!

          • mike

            Have you read the old testament which calls for good Christians to convert or put to death the non believers?

            Its just a book,

          • Matt Pearce

            Good one mate, better watch out for those terrible Christians

          • mike

            So there are no Christian terrorists? Are there no Christian groups plotting the over throw off legitimate governments? No Christian groups committing violent acts on people because they are doing things they don’t agree with?

          • Kiwi

            Not in the name of Christianity (and no, the Lords Army does not count!)

          • mike

            A quick search of the Internet proves you wrong. http://www.alternet.org/tea-party-and-right/10-worst-terror-attacks-extreme-christians-and-far-right-white-men

            And why wouldn’t the Lords Army count, they believe they are doing Gods work, much like ISIS believes it is doing Gods work.

          • Matt Pearce

            Yes you can find exceptions, congratulations! That doesn’t change the point

          • mike

            And out the 1.6 billion that are Muslim how many actually commit terrorist acts?

          • Matt Pearce

            Or how many of those Muslim countrys would you like to live in, or which ones would you like your daughter to live in? Egypt? Saudi Arabia? Indonesia? Iraq? Syria? Iran? Somalia? Libya?

          • mike

            Nice evasion!

            You answer my question then I’ll answer yours.

          • Matt Pearce

            I don’t think anyone is or has claimed that anywhere near a majority of Muslims commit terrorist acts, its obviously a minority, so what? now answer my question https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7TAAw3oQvg

          • mike

            Try this instead of Shapiro… he’s far too sensationalist.
            http://www.state.gov/j/ct/rls/crt/2012/209989.htm

            And no I wouldn’t want to live in a Muslim country, because I like to speak my mind and I want my daughter to be outspoken just like me.

            But I don’t want to live in China or India either because I like my human rights. Nor would I want to live in the UK or Europe because they are too crowded and far too PC.

          • BlitzkriegNZ

            Yip, a book that very few give a damn about and pretty much no one takes literally.
            Try accidentally ripping a page out of the islamic control manual, or even challenging some basic faulty logic in it, they’ll kill you. When half of a religion breeds with their cousins, it’s not hard to see how a stupid book holds so much power.

          • mike

            Go back a few of hundred years and Christians were the same way.

            I hope that Muslims can grow out of that phase as well.

          • Matt Pearce

            I think here you are referring to catholics

          • mike

            Unless I’ve missed something Catholics are Christians… Just like Sunni are Muslim.

            Catholicism is a denomination of Christianity, along with Methodist, Protestant, Mormon, Anglicans, Eastern Orthodox etc etc

          • Matt Pearce

            I would define a religion by who/what they worship. Christians worship Christ/Jesus, Catholics worship Jesus and Mary. So I would consider them quite different

          • Kiwi

            Yes, to you and me it is just a book. We are not still bound by the laws of thousands of years ago – not so with Islam.

      • Wahbonnah

        Have you been to Taihape?
        I doubt there is a need for a mosque to be set up there!!!

        • mike

          Its a house, 3 Tui Street. It’s not really offensive is it.

          If there are Muslims living in the town (which there are) then they would feel that there is a need. Just like if there was Jewish family or Sikh family they may feel the need to build a Synagogue or Temple to practice their faith.

          Or is religious freedom now only allowed for Christians? Is that the world you really want to live in?

          Whats next, condemning Atheists as apostates?

          • Wahbonnah

            Religious freedom is allowed in NZ to those that are prepared to accept and adapt to the NZ way of life.
            We are already bending over backwards to accommodate many minorities in the idealist view of being multicultural and PC.
            What is offensive, and what many of us take exception too, is the supporters/followers of the Muslim religion are not standing up to the minority in their religion that are committing these heinous crimes around the world on non-muslims.
            Until they can manage this, myself and many others will take a dim view on their religion being migrated into our NZ communities.

          • mike

            Do you have any proof that this officer is not accepting and adaptive to the NZ way of life?

          • Wahbonnah

            As I said earlier Mike, “What is offensive, and what many of us take exception too, is the supporters/followers of the Muslim religion are not standing up to the minority in their religion that are committing these heinous crimes around the world on non-muslims.
            Until they can manage this, myself and many others will take a dim view on their religion being migrated into our NZ communities.”
            The ball is in the court of the Muslim followers to prove to us otherwise.

          • mike

            And what does that have to do with this sworn officer seeing up a mosque in his new home town?

            How do you know he hasn’t condemned ISIS?

            You are finding him guilty before any evidence had been presented of any crime.

            Don’t we find that wrong? Didn’t we condemn Parker for doing just that?

  • Michael Cosgrove

    The situation in Sweden, of course, bears no resemblance to NZ. You only highlight the factor that suits your argument. Here is some more information, which, while it may not be comprehensive, at least indicates there is far more going on in that country.
    http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2014/6/sweden-refugees-racismstockholm.html

    • Caligula

      As an American living in Sweden, let me tell you this: Swedes are the LEAST racist white folks you’ll find in the world. And the Al Jazeera article you linked is a typical case of political correctness run amuck.

      Click the link in “Edit 3” and you’ll get a perfect example of what I speak of.

    • Odd Ball

      It didn’t take long for that article to bring out the ‘racist’ word, and therefore polarise the rest of the article.

      Simply putting a label on the situation in order to define it in a certain way, doesn’t solve the issue.

      The incoming culture has vastly different values to the native culture. One of those cultures tends to be intolerant of other cultures, the other culture has lived there for all eternity & doesn’t see why it should change.

      There are probably no ‘nice’ solutions to this issue, sometimes in life, it’s best not to create the problem in the first place.

    • Bretto

      Considering how the left are always putting Sweden on a pedestal when it comes to social legislation, it may be a matter of time.

    • thehawkreturns

      “Sweden needs a radical reorganization of the way its cities are planned,
      its educational systems are structured and its minorities are
      represented across all levels of society to prevent repeats of the Husby
      riots.”

      Even in a PC pro Muslim article there is the reality. Sweden must change to accomodate the Muslims. NOT the other way round. Welcome to the Islamic States of Europe. Providing you are Muslim.

  • caochladh

    Sounds like Northern Ireland in the bad old days where mongrels on both sides of the divide had their fiefdoms where they controlled everything including justice. Their own brand of course from the standard kneecapping to an excruciatingly painful demise. Hordes of Irish people left to get away from the “Troubles”, many of them settling in NZ. My point is that you don’t see the Irish immigrants of either faith causing problems and there are no gangs of Irish terrorists dismantling our way of life, so why can’t the Muslims just accept our way of life, quietly assimilate into the culture and enjoy a peaceful life with the rest of us. If they are not prepared to do that, then we should not be prepared to accept them. If the HRC cries foul, remind them of our Human Right to a peaceful existence.

    • thehawkreturns

      Yes, the Irish were only concerned with their own troubles. It was never a religious conflict just political and gang related that separated out on religious lines to high degree but fundamentally the protestants and the catholics both followed Christianity and Judeo-Christian precepts. Islam however, IS the problem.

      • caochladh

        Having lived in many places on this good earth including Northern Ireland and North Africa, I have come to the conclusion that it is the people that are the problem.

        • thehawkreturns

          Indeed. Though Religion is the greatest evil and one religion is more evil than the others.

  • Kip_Dynamite

    Western nations like Sweden have paved the way to their own destruction with this open border policy at the behest of the UN. The UN wants to destroy national sovereignty and remove the notion of national identity. Islam is the perfect means to that end precisely because muslims do not integrate and accelerate the destruction of their host’s culture.

    Far right nationalism will continue to rise but it might well be too late.

    • thehawkreturns

      My dad is 94 and fought in WW2. He lives inthe UK and is now firmly convinced that we were on the wrong side. Everything he held dear is being destroyed by Islam and the toadying politicians.

  • Name one free Muslim country, one that is anywhere near free for all religious groups that is 70% or more Muslim.

    Not one exists. That is a true sign of what this religion adds to a country.

  • Bartman

    Those maps in the Swedish “No Go” zone report look like cancer invading a host body. Sad that the analogy is so fitting!

  • bjmarsh

    How about this for starters ? “We the people of New Zealand, conscious of the need to sustain and protect the culture and the quality of life which has evolved in direct association with our ‘tangata whenua’ hereby declare that it shall be the policy of the people of New Zealand to require all immigrants, past or future to assimilate within the existing culture. Any attempt to avoid such assimilation will automatically cancel the individual’s authority to be in New Zealand and they shall be deported.”

    • Elinor_Dashwood

      What exactly do you mean by “assimilate within the existing culture”?
      Do you think immigrants should be required to provide proof that they like barbecues? Go to All Blacks games? Perform the haka? Find Rhys Darby funny? Wear shorts and jandals in winter? What would you propose to do about New Zealanders who fail to perform any of the above?
      If Muslim immigrants break the law, they’ll be prosecuted and punished, same as everybody else. What more do you want?

      • thehawkreturns

        You are trivialising this important idea in order to stifle discussion.
        A Muslim does not believe in Democracy except for men and only then subjetc to religious “approval”
        A Muslim does not recognise a nation-state beyond temporary convenience
        A Muslim believes it is right to kill gays atheists jews and apostates.
        A Muslim believes it is right to lie in order to achieve the greater aims of Islam.
        A Muslim believes it is right to tax infidels (the ones left alive).

        I do not believe any Muslim can possibly assimilate with a population of non-Muslims. They are totally incompatible. Multiculturalism does not exist it is simply a matter of time before the Islamic culture clashes violently with all other cultures. Look at any European country now. As the Muslim population rises to a significant proportion the violence begins and the destruction of Western society is but a few decades away.

        • mike

          Did the European emigrants to this country or in deed any country they immigrated to peacefully assimilate into the existing cultures?

          • thehawkreturns

            Thank you for confirming the point Mike. No, European emigrants certainly did not come in peace. And neither does Islam. Having said that I am not sure the European settlers to NZ were wrong in refusing to become stone age cannibals and neither do I think it wrong to resist the new force trying to turn our world into that state again.

          • mike

            You miss my point. Emigrants can bring their own culture with them. That culture can be successfully integrated into their new culture and firm a better more enriched culture.

            Western culture has grown over the years and integrated bits of many cultures. Food, entertainment, music, art, language and the like….

            You are saying that Muslims shouldn’t be allowed to bring their culture with them or practice their religion, or build their churches… imagination if Christians weren’t allowed to do those things, or Sikhs, or Buddhists. What you are advocating is religious persecution which is wrong. That is what ISIS is advocating and it’s wrong.

          • thehawkreturns

            You miss my point and suggest I am wrong to oppose Muslim immigration. Sikhs and Buddhists, nor any other religious group beyond Islam fundamentally threaten what we are doing now. Having a free discussion about religion and anything we want. Islam would stop that. I oppose Islam. It is not wrong. Anything else is suicide. Islam cannot be and, more importantly, refuses to be integrated into any other culture. It is inherently unicultural, violent and extremely inhumane in the sense we Westerners understand humanity.
            If you enjoy degrading women, homosexuals and non-Muslims then I guess Islam is your bag.

          • mike

            Let’s all become atheists and then there won’t be any arguments about which imaginary friends is better.

          • thehawkreturns

            I am an atheist. Only one religion threatens every cultural political facet I hold dear.

          • mike

            All radical forms of religion threaten freedom

          • thehawkreturns

            I agree. There is no extreme nor moderate Islam. Just Islam. There are Muslims who will use the sword and those that will but sharpen it. Muslims will not condemn murderous or barbaric behaviour in the the name of the Koran. This is unlike other religions who essentially have “peace” and “tolerance” as primary tenets.

          • mike

            They are all capable of great acts of evil. Christian Jewish Sikh Islam. Don’t kid yourself otherwise.

          • thehawkreturns

            I am not kidding anyone. You do not seem to disagree regarding so called”moderate Islam” but if you do place Islam equal with Christianity as a creed to live by then I can only hope the SIS have your ISP. Meanwhile, happy Atheism to you!

          • mike

            I believe both creeds to be wrong.

            And considering I have worn my countries uniform for 9 years and have been vetted by the SIS I’m not worried.

            I don’t fear Islam. I fear radicalism from all sources.

          • thehawkreturns

            I fear not Islam but what Islam will do to this world. My only way to fight is to get others to see it for what it is: medieval barbarism.

          • LesleyNZ

            Of course and so are agnostics and atheists and Buddhists and……everyone. We are all born with a sinful nature. Think about it – young toddlers do not have to be taught how to be bad, they need to be taught how to be good.

          • mike

            I agree completely Lesley… it is the person who commits the act. Judge people by their actions, not by their race, religion, sex or gender.

          • mike

            I said all. Don’t cherry pick my words.

            All radical forms of religion are dangerous.

          • mike

            And heck how many Christians believe that homosexuality is a Sin and are against treating them as normal human beings… not a good argument to use.

          • thehawkreturns

            Au contraire MIke. Though some Christians do oppose homosexuality, particularly in marriage, they are not hanging homosexuals from the nearest crane, unlike in Islamic countries where those gays are actually being hanged from said cranes. I think the difference is that Christianity preaches tolerance and respect for all humans, even those that act in ways repulsive to your own beliefs.

          • Another Middleagedwhiteguy

            Exactly, Hawk. It is a matter of culture (and we’re not talking about embroidery & folk-dancing)
            The problem with muslims is simply their refusal to integrate. Their culture is dictated by their religion, and their religion is simply a codified (written down, set-in-stone) version of AD653 arab culture.
            Now, their religion requires them to practice deception on their enemies (“Taqiya”) till the time is right to take power.
            So, tell me, how are we to know if an “integrated” muslim is truly moderate (= apostate) or truly deceptive (= devout and faithful)
            Seems that only IS is really honest about where it stands.

  • I’m still not sure the religion is the problem. You’re talking about immigrants from often primitive societies. Religious fanatics seem to be a problem no matter where you go. Whether it’s the image of hill billies in the States, who believe in some form of Christianity while doing evil things, or Orthodox Jews in Jerusalem spitting on school children they believe to be insufficiently modest, or Moslems behaving appallingly in a variety of ways, or Italians forming the mafia in the US in the 20th Century, it’s based on a lack of civil development. Sweden’s problem’s are the same, when did they civilise these people? They just brought them in and told them they were victims and needed protection, rather than treating them as people who require actual remedial assistance (I’m sorry, but Somalis, exempli gratia, are from a society that has literally fallen apart – releasing them into our society with no assistance is absurd).
    This isn’t something unique to Islam and there are plenty of civilised Moslems. The problem is that they make up such a small fraction of the population that I’ve met and there is often more ‘identity politics’ involved than real religious belief (from experience, the true believers are more peaceful than the one’s who ‘believe’ in being ‘Moslem’).
    As a side note, as a British soldier in the mid-2000s, we were specifically advised not to wear uniforms in public on ‘security grounds’. This is nothing new, as the same rules have applied since the Northern Irish decided to start bombing and shooting people.

    • And, to clarify, I am not saying that we shouldn’t take threats seriously and simply let anyone in who applies. What I am saying is that cultural assessments, based on people who have a low likelihood of assimilation into NZ, are probably warranted, along with a follow-up process that makes sure people are integrating (say, during the 1st 2-year period of residency and prior to permanent residency). But to ban people on religious grounds seems a bit draconian…and won’t solve the underlying problem.

      • jaundiced

        Banning people on religious grounds ‘won’t solve the underlying problem…’
        May go a long way though. Not based on religion alone, but adherence to a form which has a bad track record.
        Just like banning breeds of dogs which account for the majority of kids having their faces bitten off may seen unjust to owners of pitbulls who ‘would never hurt a fly’…
        We still have the luxury of choosing.

        • Bretto

          I just can’t see how that would be implemented though. Tick “no” next to the “are you a muslim” box on the arrivals form?

      • abbaby

        You’re right. I remember in the early eighties a friend of a friend was stabbed by an Islander.

    • Not sure how you define that particular aspect, but i think you have nailed the real issue here. A state of cultural advancement perhaps, how well the culture they bring into our nation is able to integrate with the culture or cultures of those already here.
      I did read somewhere that ISIS was more an Arab sense of superiority problem bound and legitimized by a facade of islam. Issues always develop when one culture feels superior to another in the same community. Northern Island during the “Troubles”, Australian aborigines since the first British explorers landed there, our own Maori, but particularly during the Maori wars.

      • exactchange

        There is a saying – Italian men are boys, Greek men are men, Arab men are princes.

  • Jonathan P

    I think you may be painting and unfair image of innocent muslims just by association.
    I will never refute that there are dangerous people in, muslim or otherwise but I just don’t know if its at the level that creates imminent threat.
    I’m sure you have the best of intentions in bringing this issue up but creating fear to enforce action isn’t exactly the best policy.

    • mike

      Creating a climate of fear by over staying the risk is IMHO the purview of the left. Those of us on the right should take a more balanced thoughtful look at the issue, we should realise that not all Muslims are out to kill us or destroy our way of life.

    • Salacious Crumb

      I agree your sentiment regarding the “innocent” but replace the word Muslim with Nazi and see how history would have judged that sentiment.

      • mike

        I invoke Godwin.

        You could easily replace Muslim with almost any noun and get the same effect:
        Christian
        American
        Jewish
        black
        Hispanic
        Nigerian
        Socialist
        Capitalist
        the list can go on and on. Depends what people are scared of.

        • Salacious Crumb

          The issue is that people aren’t scared enough. Apathy by western culture towards the very real threats to our way of life is the very thing that gives said threats opportunity. So I reject your Godwin invocation. My analogy was that if enough Germans had rejected Nazism then things may well have been different in the mid 20th century. Their apathy (and that of the rest of the world at the time) is a shining example to us all to the risk of allowing corrosive ideology to take a foothold.

      • Jonathan P

        There was never an innocent Nazi but there were innocent Germans. You can’t tar them with the same brush as the Nazi’s merely because they come from the same country.

  • Citizen

    Immigration or Occupation. Here in France the european Parliament has found that having a Christmas creche is unlawful. But the town halls across France will celebrate ramadan! WT…..??

  • I found a good read some time ago; I believe the writing and thrust to be relevant to New Zealand:

    Londonistan: How Britain is Creating a Terror State Within by Melanie Philips

    ‘the writer Theodore Dalrymple wrote “the British journalist Melanie Phillips documents not only the establishment and growth of Muslim extremist groups in London but the administrative incompetence and cultural weakness that permitted it to happen.’

    Coming to a suburb near you soon, scary stuff

  • BlitzkriegNZ

    Funny how all the brainwashed and blind islam defenders come here and get shot down with historic proven facts and clear recent indisputable evidence that backs up Cam’s stance against Islam. There really is no helping some of these bleeding heart pansies.

    • mike

      I am not an Islamic apologist. But neither am i a bigot.

      Many of the comments here in favor of cams argument could easily be considered bigoted.

      I acknowledge the threat of ISIS and AQ. But at the same time I do not see every Muslim as a threat, just like every man is not a rapist or kiddie fiddler or wife beater. We abhor generalisations as we should, Judge people on their actions and not on their religion, race, gender, sexuality or color. That is the right thing to do!

      • BlitzkriegNZ

        We judge based on evidence. France, Britain, Sweden, Belguim…. would you like New Zealand added to the list of fast growing Islamic toilet bowls?

      • JAFA Gazza

        I lived in London for nearly 10 years until last June. I cant tell you mate that if you think that the Muslim community at large – not a collection of free thinking individuals – doesnt spit at women on the streets of their host country…demand special laws – they even have their own Sharia bank….then you are seriously deluded. It happened in London over the last 15 years. It became a wave. And the stupid PC brigade with their “cup of tea, a chat and a hug” approach were scuppered. The Muslim community call out the government in the UK by complainning to the European Court of Human Rights. They used the system we created against us for their own purpose. One even wanted Finchley ( a majorly Muslim populated Borough) to be set aside from Westminster law and have Sharia law instead. They even advocated for segregated schooling – Muslims only – and wanted assurances that over time the non-muslim community shuld be relocated.

        Now, do you REALLY think that they judge us in the same way you would have us believe we should judge them?

        I dont disagree with the concept of not stereotyping in general and yes I do agree that you shouldn’t label or judge an INDIVIDUAL by their race/ colour/ sex/ creed. But that is a western liberal view and I can assure you it is not one shared by the influential and oppressive cult heads of the likes of ISIS, AQ and everyother looney sect of Islam that impose their will by fear, murder and demand.

        Oh – and by the way – they REALLY dont give a damn what any of us think.

        • mike

          The problem is that nobody actually bothered enforcing the law. The noddy’s in the PC brigade screamed racist when people raised the issue so it was able to get bigger, and then it became normal, and then it became a problem.

          We have reinforced bad behavior by not correcting it immediately. But demonising an entire religion is not the answer. It will take time for European society to correct this behaviour but it can be done… by enforcing the law irrespective of race/religion/gender.

          Political correctness has a lot to answer for!

  • LesleyNZ

    No you are not over-stating the Muslim immigration threat at all. Did anyone see this news item yesterday? http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/taihape-gets-mosque-video-6194665. A local police officer has set up a much needed Mosque in Taihape. Some of the locals think this is just great. After I saw this news item I thought why can’t the Muslims in this story assimilate, adapt and wear clothes like us? History teaches us that once Muslims get beyond 15% of the population trouble starts and they demand and the authorities cave into the demands. Look at Lebanon which was once a Christian country. “Islam’s Torture of Lebanon” – By Jamie Glazov http://jnnnews.com/media/jamie/

    We should be worried – very worried.

    • Catriona

      A much needed mosque? This is NZ for goodness sake. I can’t imagine going to Muslimland and setting up whatever I wanted. Heck no – I’d probably get my bead chopped off simply because I wasn’t Muslim.

      • intelligentes candida diva

        No ‘probably’ ……’would’ as the evidence is out there, has been there and continues to grow

    • mike

      What an evil evil man wanting a place to worship his God!

      Shows how tolerant and just we are in this country that we allow freedom of religion.

  • kloyd0306

    NZ’s relative remoteness has protected us from many of the problems that exist in Europe with regard to the non-assimilation of muslims into European society. However, that is no excuse for our being unaware of the disasters that have taken place due to each respective country’s failure to recognise that multi-culturism as an experiment has failed, and has failed miserably.

  • KiwiKaffir

    Having read the Koran, let me say islam is no religion of peace unless you are muslim. And we see how they treat other muslims. We allow muslim immigration at our peril as they are to use muhammad, (a war lord) as their example and to bring about world wide adherence to sharia. If any muslim tells you otherwise then they are using Taqqiya, which is Koranic permission to lie as long as it furthers islam.

    • mike
      • KiwiKaffir

        Not that recently, but I have read it.

      • JAFA Gazza

        You wont get support for your argument by aligning ANY religion with violent acts – historical or not.

        The fundamental truth is that yes – ALL religions ( perhaps with the exception of Ba’ha ) have weilded control over the masses using violence in some form or other – even tormenting them psychlogically by dictating that unless they followed “the truth” they would be damned after death.

        But we have evolved since the crusades. 700 years of social evolution.

        ISIS, Taliban, whoever wants to impose the law and discipline of a fat war lord from 1000 years ago and drag society back into the stone age with it.

        Wise up chap – you will only have a 5 second window to explain yur neutrality while the sword swings up above yur head….

        • mike

          Yes ISIS does… and ISIS should be destroyed by all means possible. And yes the Governments of all nations should be doing more to achieve this goal.

          Taliban is just anti-american, fueled by hate… they may use religion but it isn’t their overriding ideology.

          My post was merely to point out the silliness in stating that Islam is the only religion to promote violence through its holy book. All religions use or have used violence to achieve their goals, and attain more power.

          I have nothing against believing in a higher power, but I dislike organised religion of all types. Because all religions seem to be intolerant and bigoted.

          • KiwiKaffir

            The Christian Bible has Gods people acting violently historically. It does not endorse killing, enslavement, torture, kidnapping, paedophilia, the supression of women, and the command to kill or subjugate others like the Koran does.
            The Koran is not hard to understand it is quite prescriptive.

          • mike

            DEUTERONOMY 2:33-34 Under God’s leadership, the Israelites utterly destroyed the men, women and children of Sihon. “…we left no survivors.”

            DEUTERONOMY 3:6 Under God’s leadership, the Israelites destroyed the men, women and children of Og. They plundered the livestock and possessions.

            DEUTERONOMY 7:2 God told the Israelites, regarding their enemies, to “destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy.”

            DEUTERONOMY 21:10-13 According to God’s law, if an Israelite soldier was at war with an enemy, and he saw a beautiful woman that he found attractive, he could capture her to be his wife. She must then shave her head, trim her nails and discard the clothing she was wearing when captured. She could mourn her father and mother for a month. If the soldier wasn’t pleased with her for any reason, he could “let her go wherever she wishes.”

            JOSHUA 6:21-27 Under God’s direction, Joshua destroyed the entire city of Jericho…men, women, teenagers and infants…with the edge of the sword. The soldiers then pillaged the silver, gold, bronze and iron for God and burned the city.

            I could go on and on…

          • KiwiKaffir

            That is historical, 3,000 years ago. The Jews are not commanded to do any of those things today. However the Koran tells muslims to model themselves on Muhummad the perfect man. Who actually did do all of those things I previously listed.

          • mike

            Same argument applies as I just gave lesley.

          • KiwiKaffir

            You seem to have a fixation on the bible to which your ignorance shines through. This is for comments on the topic … the Koran and things islamic, why you should want to turn it about the bible beggars belief. Read the Koran yourself and you will understand that not all religions are the same!

          • mike

            Merely pointing out the hypocrisy that is being espoused by some of the commentators.

            Enough of you are demonising Islam I don’t need to join in. I’m just pointing out the fact that the same can be said about Christianity.

            And if you expect me just to shut up and go along with the flock then you have me mistaken as a sheep.

          • LesleyNZ

            Mike – It is easy to take scripture verses/Bible stories out of context. If you do not understand what sin is and the consequences of sinning then you would think some were pretty much hard done by in the Old Testament. Here is the meaning of DEUTERONOMY 21:10-13. The reference to the shaving of the head etc is a kind of ceremonial purification custom to show that this captive woman has put her past life behind her. The woman was to be treated very well by the soldier and if after a month things did not work out he was to let her go : “Respecting a captive taken to wife – Verses 10-14 By this law a soldier was allowed to marry his captive, if he pleased. This might take place upon some occasions; but the law does not show any approval of it. It also intimates how binding the laws of justice and honour are in marriage; which is a sacred engagement.”
            http://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/matthew-henry-concise/deuteronomy/21.html
            or a more indepth explanation: http://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/matthew-henry-complete/deuteronomy/21.html
            Why did God allow cities to be burned and destroyed and the enemies and their families also killed? Because they sinned against God. Actions reap consequences – even in the Bible. The whole of Judges is about Israelites sinning against God, God chastising them and restoring them and forgiving them and they go back and sin again and again and so once again they are chastised and punished – God restores them after they ask for forgiveness – again and again. The Israelites thought what they were doing was right in their eyes but in God’s eyes they were not. The Old Testament is part of God’s plan of salvation. All scripture points to Jesus Christ. Very very different to the Koran.

          • mike

            Which brings us back to the question. If the Bible is God’s Word then how can you decide to ignore or interpret what he has said?

            Or is the Bible not God’s Word in which case its just words written by people like you and me and is their fallible.

          • kloyd0306

            So, why did you specifically pick the Bible to make your point?

            Why didn’t you state that Islam isn’t the only religion to promote violence in your original question? You chose the Bible because Christians do not react when attacked, but if you attack Islam there is fear that your life might be endangered.

            And therein lies the difference………

          • mike

            So America didn’t react when attacked? They invaded two countries and killed thousands of people.

            Now don’t get me wrong, afghan was a justified war. AQ needed d to get their arses kicked and the Taliban were evil pricks who aided and abetted them.

          • kloyd0306

            America’s response was not due to religion. It was due to a physical bombing of several major sites.

            Look at the response when the Islam is attacked vs the response when Christianity is attacked.

            Religion of peace? Poppycock………..

          • mike

            You are using the wrong word. You want to use criticised.

            If you are attacking Islam then yeah they will retaliate.

            And almost everyone on this site is criticising Islam… But I don’t see any death threats or attacks upon us or or nation.

            Now yes if you are in Syria or Iran and criticize Islam you may well feel a bit of hurt…. Their country their rules. Much like drug smuggling into China or Bali, you might end up getting shot… Their country their rules.

            You can’t transplant or rules culture or morals onto another country and expect them just to agree to file them, just like they shouldn’t expect us to follow theirs. And we don’t.

  • Elinor_Dashwood

    Question. How many people here actually know any Muslims?

    • Kiwibabe

      I know a workplace where quite a significant number of staff are Indian Muslims. Some of the classic cultural issues exist but overall nice people.
      However, some positive affirmation privileges have been accorded at their request. That is concerning given there is a wide diversity of other cultures and religions that have not been accorded special rights.
      It is up to all authorities eg govt, police, councils (yeah right), schools, employers etc to be careful in giving special rights because that may lead to resentment and separation instead of integration.

      • KiwiKaffir

        That’s the problem Babe, they want special treatment but are not prepared to integrate. Very thing has to be on their terms!

    • mike

      I have worked with several, the one who stands out the most is the guy I worked with who was born in Pakistan, raised in Iran and emigrated to NZ as a teen… and then went on to join the Army.

    • Wallace Westland

      I have a number of staff that are Muslims. One soon after starting demanded a prayer room.
      I showed him to the broom closet and put a compass app on his phone.
      God I’m such a tolerant bastard!

    • intelligentes candida diva

      I know several. Why?

  • intelligentes candida diva

    No you are not over stating it, it is a case of numbers and time and if NZ does not address this with robust legislation NZ will be like the analogical frog in the hot water.

  • Richard McGrath

    Wasn’t Mohammed a violent paedophile… rather like Philip Smith?

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