Whaleoil General Debate

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  • Wheninrome

    Following on from Wonderful Rudolph and the Spirit of Christmas we have the Herald’s “In depth” article on the City Mission and food parcels, simply loving the stories of people in hardship. Makes one really want to give and assist.
    We have Betty Morris from Mt Wellington, sole parent, 26, state house, 3 kids, 2, 1 and 7 weeks, life getting harder HP having to buy new born stuff, what happened to the last lot, really. A breeding machine for many a year to come, and I mean every year.
    Vanisa Samuel, eldest child’s father died, youngest child’s father died, 3 older children live with an aunty, so only 1 child lives with her in state house and life is getting harder. Not sure if she is expecting another, looks a little like it.
    It doesn’t pay to be smug, however I feel that small steps assist with problems, minimum a parsley plant, lemon tree, perpetual spinach and a tomato plant in season, are the base for many a meal. Don’t need much land, they all grow successfully in pots.
    Salad in plastic bags, forget it, the good old Iceberg lettuce (again grown in containers of any sort) is a far better bet.

    • Quinton Hogg

      Of course life is getting harder for Betty.
      she has just had another child. They are not cheap to run.
      Some questions.
      Why did she get pregnant again while being on the benefit? Hasn’t she worked out how babys are made?
      where the hell is/are the father/s of these three kids.
      surely as sperm donor he/they should be putting his/their hand/s in his pocket to cover the costs rather than leave it to the good old nz taxpayer to cover it.

      • dgrogan

        That’s assuming the fathers aren’t on the welfare teat as well, of course.

      • Wheninrome

        You are assuming they were compos mentis at the time of impregnation, could they pick out the mother in daylight as it was probably dark, don’t all cats look the same at night. And let’s get real she might have been 1 of 2 or maybe more in the same 24 hour period (a busy boy with time on his hands), who knows, she certainly doesn’t.

    • Cowgirl

      Considering her last kid is only 1, it is somewhat surprising she had had to HP a bunch of new stuff again so quickly.

      • Wheninrome

        Shopping is the only other pleasure in such a life. Surprised that she could get HP.

  • Michael

    Advertise handouts of $450+ and hundreds turn up? Are we providing the wrong incentives?


    Perhaps a grant of $450 if they got a job, and another if they held it for 6 months would relieve poverty quicker.

    • cmm

      “Eleanor Anaru, a 20-year-old solo mum cradling her 5-month-old son Te Kahurangi, pays $400 a week rent”

      That’s the root of this problem. People have lost the understanding of the intention of the welfare system.

      It is intended as a safety net, not a hammock. It is there to cushion the worst blows of misfortune, not as a comfortable lifestyle choice. It is for temporary survival, not a career plan.

      When we’re paying and supporting a 20yo to the extent she thinks she is entitled to a $400/week rental then something is severely broken.

      • Mikex

        Agree with your commnets Cmm. We are now supporting whole families where generation after generation become benefit dependant. With 40% of Maori women in their twenties on a benefit it must surely be a life style choice.

    • InnerCityDweller

      Saw it on Facebook so spent $20 on petrol getting there? Sorry, can’t really be that tight then, can it?

      • But wait; there’s more:

        Ms Robertson said the mission did not advertise the service, but word got out through local Work and Income offices and spread through word of mouth and social media.

        Vanisa Samuel, 34, from Papatoetoe, saw it on a Facebook site called South Side Freebies.

        Trudy Tapu, 25, grew up in Mangere and came last year and the year before. She now lives in Hamilton, but drove up to stay with her mum on Tuesday night and was in the queue by 6am yesterday.

        “They don’t have many places like this in Hamilton so it was worth my $20 gas to come here,” she said.

        South Side Freebies; the mind boggles…

        • InnerCityDweller

          I know…

          Not on Facebook. Maybe somebody who is could have a dig and see what else that page offers…

          • yoyoyo

            probably other items that have “fallen of a truck”? such as Tv’s and electronics?

        • Wheninrome

          A book could be written along the lines of Europe on $1.00 a day.

        • Dee West

          You have to join the group and be approved. Secret Squirral stuff. Address is: https://www.facebook.com/groups/396342430477193/

          Interesting pictures of the members. Over 9,000 of them.

        • Wheninrome

          The mobile phone, the computer etc., cost money, necessary for a job, but obviously now necessary for bludging.
          Be interesting to see what adverts link to that site.

      • Cowgirl

        I wondered if she had also done the rounds in Hamilton, and decided to double-dip – would be worth the $20 gas then.

        • dgrogan

          She must have been riding a Vespa to drive Hamilton/ Auckland/Hamilton for $20.

          • Disinfectant

            Might have had part of the cost offset by WINZ as a hardship grant.

    • Citizen

      So 6 Adults in one house! The landlord would do only the most urgent repairs, leaving her, five other adults, and two children – including a two-week-old baby girl – in a “damp and cold house”. http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/63959652/tenants-suffer-in-investors-goldrush

    • Cowgirl

      These stories annoy me every year. The whole mess is born out of the idea that you have to be gluttonous and spend loads for gifts at Xmas.

    • Wallace Westland

      We donate to the City Mission every year, not a huge amount but I know what it is like to grow up poor.
      However, the bloke in the photo looks like he could lift a bus. I’ve got a job for him that pays well. We can’t get enough people to swing shovels.
      WINZ needs a kick up the backside. Time to stop pandering to some of these bone idle bludgers. I notice an awful lot of them have facebbok so access to internet and probably smartphones. I guess priorities like food can be left to the taxpayer and those with a generous nature.

    • kayaker

      And, of course, the Herald had to feature it. Fodder for the bleeding hearts. More fodder for the A.littles and Wussels of this world.

      The annoying thing is that there are some genuinely needy people, some in astute need, who wonderful charities like the City Mission are there for. A lot of people featured in this article undermine what the CM is there for and potentially take away from the people who genuinely need it.

      One person interviewed said she brought the whole family “I brought my brother and the whole family, just for the Christmas spirit.” Another: “My mum used to come here when we had money troubles.” It’s a learned practice, what happened to self reliance?

      Imagine if the headline had been something like “People lining up at (insert name here) told to stop having so many babies, find the fathers and make them pay, get an education, get a job in 2015”.

      Soapbox rant EOM.

  • T. Akston

    What is it with the UN ?

    ISIS lopping heads off, murdering, pillaging left and right – silence. The US vigorously interrogate some ratbags and the UN’s “special rapporteur weighs in calling it a criminal conspiracy, and that the US was obliged under international law “to bring those responsible to justice”.

    Isn’t that whole organisation past it’s use by date ?

    • mommadog

      The UN has been past its use by date for a long time now. They are too busy dealing with global warming and coming up with reports on poverty in countries like New Zealand so they don’t have time for the real problems in the world.

    • Coffee Connoisseur

      The US vigourously interrogate some ratbags?! Are you serious?! Torture is torture. It is abhorrent, disgusting and unjustifiable in anyway shape or form. It is also a violation of international law. The fact that you seek to downplay it with your post is at very sad indeed.
      If the US do anything less than prosecute those responsible, then it seriously risks inadvertently legitimising the practice in any other country that seeks to use torture as a means of coersion for its own ends.
      Your country is attacked? Start detaining people and torturing them.

      Id suggest you read a little further than what is on stuff on this matter

      • terrynaki

        Im glad the US are atleast trying to combat these scumbags,collateral damage is ISIS fault.

        • Coffee Connoisseur

          The US armed ISIS in the first place. It sounds like you are saying torture is justifiable.

          • terrynaki

            yes i am

          • Coffee Connoisseur

            care to elaborate as to when why and by whom it is justified in your view.

          • Alright

            Hello terrynaki. Are you there?

      • Andrew Gibson

        Hard to disagree, but probably a bit naive. What do you do when the bad guys turn our own ethics and morality against us? Simple example…someone has kidnapped a child and refuses to say anything. Do you threaten with words or “consider other means”?

        • Coffee Connoisseur

          I am sure Mussolini, Pol Pot, Augusto Pinochet faced similar dillemas.

          What is naive is to not understand that much of what is happening around the world including ISIS and 9-11 (not condoning ISIS or 9-11 in any way shape or form btw) is as a result of US foreign policy.


          If anyone wants an example of simple torture you can try on yourself, sit with your back against a wall, legs as if you are sitting in a chair. try and do it for 4 mins. This is a simple stress position, not an intensive one. Detainees were kept in such positions for hours. Consider the excrutiating pain that results.

          • Andrew Gibson

            Presumably in a similar vein; colonialism is responsible for tangata whenua problems such as smoking, alcohol and drug issues?

          • Coffee Connoisseur

            Unless we were torturing Maori into smoking alcohol and drugs then I don’t see it as being in a similar vein at all.

            You seem to fail to understand the bigger picture.


            It comes down to whether you want a world with more terrorism or less. All this sort of thing does is radicalize more individuals to become terrorists to join the fight against the US.

    • Simo

      The Socialist Mothership is renown for cuddling Muslim Fundamentalist fascist killers and murderers – its called equality no matter what disposition they are

  • ozbob68

    Gareth Morgan on Breakfast TV saying “tax on land, reduce PAYE, make housing affordable”. Sounds like clap-trap to me. The IRD is spending 1.5 billion dollars on refreshing their IT Systems, I think they need to spend 30K on designing a component to collect and analyse data to detect the type of tax avoidance being discussed.

    • Woody

      Long ago I gave up listening to anything that sanctimonious git Morgan utters.
      If I do inadvertently hear him taking a position on something, I immediately go into the opposite camp.

      • EveryWhichWayButLeft

        I tend to agree that most of what GM says can be ignored as total codswallop. However, he’s got some very valid points about cats, so your opposing for opposition sake is reminiscent of how the Labour party works in opposition.

        He’s also said some interesting things about a flat tax rate and although he’s looking at it from the wrong end, it’s a very worthy debate to have.

        On the whole though, you’re correct – he is a sanctimonious git.

        • 1951

          GM is totally wrong about cats. This area has worked to rid feral cats in the last 20yrs and guess what left the forestry block in clouds as it was felled. Everyone living with-in 2-3ks of it have been over-run with rats. GM should put his efforts to deal with the rats before taking out their natural enemy.

          • kayaker

            GM never thinks through cause and effect.

          • 1951

            So true. There must be at least 1 k of natural bush valley between our orchard and the forestry block that was felled, yet we had rat damage to fruit on our trees that never occurred prior to it being felled. I cannot bare to venture into our shed at night for the same reason. Local hardware shop expressed amazement at the increased turnover of rat bait last winter…..and….I haven’t seen a wild cat in these parts for years.

  • Wheninrome

    A new breed of sports person, “The I am above the law” huge reason to excel at sport, you will be able to commit crimes and get away with it. Schools should be promoting this to the 1st 15 as an incentive to win the game on Saturday. I can see Kings v Grammar, player of the day gets to go out on the “bash”, and I don’t mean drinking. Parents will be so proud and support their boy, Hasn’t he done well, he is above the law, and he is not even a Diplomat yet.

  • Wallace Westland

    I see the tagging ratbag Goode managed to escape a trip to the big house…just.
    Not a bad result from the judge. A good dose of Home D a little bit of community service and full reperation of the 14k to clean up his dross at a payback rate that made the little twerp flinch.
    Gaol would have been a better deterant for the little weed but this comes fairly close and will last a lot longer.

    • Wheninrome

      Yes it will “last” a lot longer, given some people take years to complete their community service, 1/2 hr here, 1/2 hour there.

  • richard.b

    More of Lens lies busted.
    We were promised average rates increases of 2.5% from memory and then these went up to 3.5%.
    In todays Rodney Times we have a message to Auckland ratepayers saying the average increase is 5.6%.
    How can this man look in the mirror.

  • axeman

    Ha I listened yesterday to Gower and Garner, “the Hour Of Power” , may be Pam Corkery was right ‘little puffed up self important”

  • Aichdee

    Can someone please point me to Cam’s rules of politics? I was using ‘explaining is losing’ on someone this morning, and thought I should review the list :-)

  • yoyoyo

    not sure if this was picked up even our judges are trying to help Len have his train set

    “At $53 a week, Goode, who had recently found work making billboards, could clear his debt in five years.

    “It’d be a little bit difficult. I was looking at maybe $25,” the defendant said.

    But Judge Fraser was undeterred. “There might have to be a little bit of pain associated with the payback,” he said.

    “Why should he not put the ratepayers back into the position they were before all this … we have a train system to pay for.””


  • yoyoyo

    Here is Winston’s Christmas recipe for Dairy Free Egg Nog:

    1) Take 12 parts rum
    2) Enjoy!

  • metalnwood

    Greenpeace trample on world heritage site to try and make political points


    good one.

    • richard.b

      Oh dear!

    • Old Man, Torbay.

      Greenpeace arrogant to all but themselves.

    • Yeahright

      What “little”good they do, they ruin it with a lot more stupid stuff, and people only remember the stupid stuff…..

  • jonno1

    I’ve had this problem with my Beemer too. Can anyone help?

    • Disinfectant

      What is the problem?
      Are you in Drive and it is showing in Reverse?

  • MaryLou

    How useful is this type of incident to Len’s cause?: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11372572

    • Platinum Fox

      Not very useful.

      I think you’ll find that a new batch of electric trains went into service on Red Len’s monumental railway this week.

      If the train that broke down truly was on the eastern line (The Horrid initially said it was in the Parnell tunnel!) then rather than pushing it into Britomart where it will be clogging up a platform, a better plan would have been to pull it back on the eastern line so that it could be parked up at one of the old platforms behind the old railway station. That would have lessened disruption of trains from the west, south and Onehunga lines and alleviated the need for large numbers of passengers to disembark at Newmarket.

      If Britomart was a through station the breakdown would likely still have thrown AT into confusion as it probably wouldn’t have prepared a contingency plan covering how to operate the network if through trains were not possible.

  • MaryLou

    Just to help with the research on powering electric cars: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/environment/news/article.cfm?c_id=39&objectid=11372220 :)

  • Hard1

    With comments like this from an optimistic Judge Fraser to the tagger, “Why should he not put the ratepayers back into the position they were before all this … we have a train system to pay for.”, some things are going to have to change if “Ticket collectors and security staff didn’t know what was going on. We stood around in confusion with no indication of whether or when any train would get through to Britomart”.
    “Most people eventually walked out and caught a bus.”

    How about getting the current system operating properly instead of dreaming of an impossible future, Mr. Brown.

  • Effluent
  • Albert Lane

    My faith in human nature has been destroyed today. I have just picked up our local rag from the letter box, and on the front page there is a photo of a couple standing outside their burnt-out house and their classic car. Now here’s what has really upset me.

    He is the sales manager for a real estate firm. She works for an education trust.

    May I quote from what the senior station officer said?

    “No smoke alarms were in the house – another reminder that every home should have one…”

    The good news is at the bottom of the article:

    “They have home and contents insurance”…….. and (wait for it)……. “and community support is poring (sic) in”.

    “Gift voucher donations can be sent to the family………”

    I give up. The battle has been well and truly lost.

    • dgrogan

      A classic case of thinking, “It’ll never happen to us”. But it could be worse. They could have had smoke alarms with no batteries in them!!!!! Plenty of those around, even in motel rooms.

      • Albert Lane

        Yes, that may be so, but surely a real estate agent and an education trust worker would be the first people to have working smoke detectors in their house. I find it truly amazing that they didn’t. I don’t go along with those who think it will never happen to them. And the fact that they had insurance reflects that they knew that the unexpected can happen at any time, and that would naturally involve installation of detectors. However, for their sake, I do hope that their fire insurance policy doesn’t stipulate they have detectors. But for anybody reading this, please don’t be stupid. Install at least one smoke detector in your home, whether rented or freehold. Isn’t that what we’re constantly being told? I am still shocked that professional people (one of whom is actually in the industry) who should know all about these things were so …… (cant think of an appropriate word). If that fire had started in the dead of night, the outcome might have been quite different. I hope Leighton talks about it on his show tomorrow morning.

        • dgrogan

          If they have a mortgage, their bank will have insisted they take insurance cover – so I don’t think you can even rely on their own judgement (lack of) to take out insurance cover. Sadly, some people are just incapable of taking personal responsibility.

  • Excitedly awaiting Whodunnit

    I heard Wussel prattling on about pay rises and he suggested some should be performance based (referring to rennie i guess), good to hear the left now believe in rewarding hard work rather than encouraging mediocraty. I would imagine he means to limit the scope of performance based pay to only those he deems eligible and not across the board. Perhaps a question for parliament question time…