Whaleoil General Debate

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  • Korau

    Word of the day.

    Islamomisia – A hatred of those who are followers of Islam; especially, those radicals who try to justify their murdering and destruction in the name of Islam.

    Source : http://www.encyclo.co.uk/define/Islamomisia

    • Citizen

      Better than the islamophobia label.

      • Zeal23

        How about islamorealist.

    • Damon Mudgway


      I’m Islamomisia. I like having labels.

  • Citizen

    Does this exemplify Politics?
    Imagine you’re holding a postcard in your hand, on one side of which is written, “The statement on the other side of this card is true.” We’ll call that Statement A. Turn the card over, and the opposite side reads, “The statement on the other side of this card is false” (Statement B). Trying to assign any truth to either Statement A or B, however, leads to a paradox: if A is true then B must be as well, but for B to be true, A has to be false. Oppositely, if A is false then B must be false too, which must ultimately make A true.

    Invented by the British logician Philip Jourdain in the early 1900s, the Card Paradox is a simple variation of what is known as a “liar paradox,” in which assigning truth values to statements that purport to be either true or false produces a contradiction. An even more complicated variation of a liar paradox is the next entry on our list.

    • hookerphil

      Politics – Both sides have Statement B
      Media – Both statements might be true or false, check WO for answer.

    • Andy

      This is also Russell’s Paradox. (named after British Mathematician Bertrand Russell)

      At the time, this paradox caused a crisis in set theory and mathematics, as it showed the axioms were inconsistent

  • conwaycaptain

    Ferry on fire in Gale force conditions in the Adriatic.
    Now multiply this by a magnitude of 10 or more and people will now see why I think these mega size passenger vessels are a veritable death trap waiting to happen.

    • Steve

      I think you’ll find that this is a regular car ferry plying the popular Greece East Italian run

      • Aucky

        I think CC is using this disaster to exemplify a growing concern within the maritime industry regarding the ever increasing size of cruise ships against the rescue capabilities should a major mishap occur. What would happen if a cruise ship carrying 4000 passengers and 2000 crew caught fire in mid-Atlantic? Recent incidents show that cruiselines struggle to cope with an airconditioning breakdown never mind a major fire or a collision.

        • conwaycaptain

          The marine industry is v worried about the huge passenger ships and also the Mega size Box Boats, Tankers and Bulkers. I could write a screed on the problems of evacuating a passenger vessel and then picking up the survivors
          Even if one of these huge passenger vessels was in trouble close to say Hawaii with all the resources of the USN/USAF they would be hard pressed to rescue them..

          • Sailor Sam

            You are mixing up various types of ships.
            Bulkers, tankers and boxboats carry no more than 25 crew and have a much better safety record than mega cruise ships.
            Served as master on VLCCs for more than 10 years and never felt that these ships were unsafe.

  • The logic used by the Police never fails to amaze me. So one guy goes 240kph on a public road so the answer to that is to ticket people going 101kph on the same road? That will show the speeders!

    • steve and monique

      104 kph I heard. Dont think they put 101 into action.

    • Fredd Dagg

      The logic of bureaucracy, “240 kph is dangerous, 240 kph is speeding, 104kph is speeding, therefore 104kph is dangerous.”

    • Skydog

      It seems most of the crashes this holiday period are due to driver error either at intersections, doing u-turns or tourists on the wrong side of the road.

      So Police manager Inspector Grace states ‘generally speed was a factor in all crashes and when most think about speed, they think about being in excess of the limits but often that is not the case.

      “Often we are just driving at a speed that is not suited to our driving ability or the car we are in or the conditions [of the road],” she said.

      “The speed limit is the speed limit but sometimes we have to look at the road.” (stuff article)

      Mmmm…I’m glad she sometimes has to look at the road and not gaze all day long at the beautiful landscape.

      • Well if the logging truck that hit the car load of people who did a U-Turn in front of him had been going 5kph then no one would have died. Police say Speed Kills – so true.

        • Skydog

          Speed is a factor and always will be, but what is cause of the crash? What I’ve read, the driver conducted a u-turn in front of a truck. So how many crashes this year have been caused by someone travelling too fast compared to driver error.

          I say lets not focus on speed, but how about driver education. Lets discuss apexes of roads, road surfaces, blind spots etc. Instead of a $200 ticket why not send them on a driving course? That would be too hard and not cost productive.

          • I.M Bach

            Ultimately I think it would be cheaper. The cost of a serious accident to the community would be far greater than the cost of a few advanced driving lessons, and besides, anyone convicted of a driving offence that required such lessons as a penalty should be footing the bill themselves. I have suggested in the past that those who are convicted of causing injury (or death) on the roads should not only undergo compulsory indepth retraining (after a period of disqualification) but also have to resit their license periodically and pay a higher relicensing fee. For every conviction causing injury the fee rises.

      • axeman

        They say speed was a factor which it may be but not the reason for the crash, as is driver error, poor road conditions etc, but they always look to blame speed.

        • I.M Bach

          They blame speed because it’s the easy way out; as long as a vehicle is in motion then speed will be a factor. It’s the same when you bash your head against a brick wall; the speed at which you do it will be a factor in how badly you injure your forehead.

    • Max

      204kph is a deliberate act of speeding, exceeding the speed limit while driving ” normally” is an inability to simply control your car.

      • On my car’s speedo, given the width of the needle, the difference between 100 and 101 (or 99 and 100 for that matter) is impossible to distinguish with 100% accuracy. A gust of wind, a slight down gradient on the road, adjusting your behind on the seat – anything could make you speed up or slow down by 1kph, even with cruise control on.

        • I.M Bach

          I think what they are after is for everyone to travel at 95kph, which is farcical and draconian in today’s world. To say that the idea of issuing tickets at 101kph isn’t revenue gathering is a blatant lie and adds to the mistrust of the Police by the general public. I actually feel a bit sorry for the Police in this regard, they are being used as ‘tax’ collecting puppets by the Government.

          • Max

            I think the problem is so many seem not to understand what “limit ” means. I bet everyone did when they took their driving tests.
            If you want to drive at the maximum speed limit ,which by and large are well posted then don’t whine when you get pinged for exceeding the allowed tolerance.
            If you can’t do a basic function like controling your speed in a car then walk, catch a bus or ride a bike.

      • damm good thrashing

        If you can’t control your car you shouldn’t be driving it.

    • Imogen B

      If I am ever ticketed for 1k over, I will make sure I demand so many photos and calibration reports that it will cost plenty more than the fine.
      Sorry fellow taxpayers, but it is a citizen’s duty to resist the ravages of the state.

      • Iva b ginn

        An interesting exercise would be to get a big group of people with 1k over tickets and take a class action against the police & LTNZ it would tie the courts up for fair while. Everyone would ask for their ticket issuer for the calibration of the offending cameras.

  • hbboy

    A trucking company wanting to track its fleet installs small, inexpensive GPS devices in the trucks, and then can see exactly where they are at all times. Why is the same technology not available to airlines? It is beyond belief that after MH370 airlines still can’t (or wont) track their fleets.

    • Yeahright

      First thing, inexpensive and airliners don’t mix, it would be about $100k per aircraft to fit this technology retrospectively, then they don’t have cell coverage, they would need satellite data link, this is not cheap, then what reporting timing is required, 5 second reporting, the plane still can travel a long way from 35k feet to the ground, plus 5 sec at 12 hours = 8640 reports at $1 each.
      Who’s going to pay? 100 s of aircraft in a fleet….
      Yes it should be done at the manufacture stage, but there still a lot of buts about actually costs.

  • Cadwallader

    One of my enduring gripes with the msm is their insistence on quoting an alleged witness to a reported event as follows “and a witness who did not wish to be named” said etc… Now if a witness doesn’t wish to be identified then surely their witnessing is suspect? Or; does the failure to identify really mean that the reporter is making it all up? I am cynical enough to believe the latter alternative.

    • Max

      I think you got it in one, also there is the possibility of a false witness.

    • RockinBob625

      Having been pursued by a reporter for a story for damn near a week, I can understand the not wanting to be named. You keep saying no comment, no comment, please no comment…then they offer you ‘off the record’. Make it seem like you are buddies, your just giving them the gossip. I lost all respectacular for the media industry after that episode. Calls to my home, to my workplace, and to my cellphone were persistent and went on for four days.

      The story? As a rugby referee, I called off a game five minutes early when a punch up started. The score was 78-0 or similar.

      • You need proper media advice…saying no comment is actually commenting and they will print that in the interests of “balance”…saying nothing is the best course of action…nothing at all.

        Now try that for 3 months…where Radio NZ will ring you 5 times a day for comment.

        • STAG

          Inner strength is a great quality.

        • Cadwallader

          Does this include yelling “naff off” or when you advocate silence you mean silence? The point for me is why report a witness statement if that witness has anonymity?

        • RockinBob625

          Yeah, it was a good number of years ago now. But as an amateur ref doing a friendly game you don’t expect that level of attention.

      • Mark

        I have made it very clear to people close to me that there are NO circumstances under which I would consider them talking to or providing any information about me to any media,to be useful or acceptable.

  • Sally

    Found this little gem on Newstalk ZB’s website.
    Quiet Break for Greens
    A quiet break for the Greens, who’re clocking off to get outdoors.
    Co-leader Russel Norman is having a relaxed festive season, at home in Wellington – quipping that listeners won’t be hearing from him for a month.

    So Norman is staying home in Wellington but will be outdoors – gardening perhaps.
    This is only 1 Green, wonder what the rest of the Greens are doing.
    What could be better than no Norman for a month. Might just have to check his twitter account to make sure he is shutting up.
    Quick National sort out your dirty washing while Norman has his self-imposed gag on.

    • I am sorry but the mental image of Norman with a gag on made me feel decidedly unwell.

  • ..

    • Chris EM

      Yup, I get that in the morning if I sleep in. Beautiful way to wake up, I love it.

  • Korau

    This is wrong on so many levels.

    Doctor four times over limit escapes conviction

    “Wendy Louise McDonald Florence, 50, appeared in the Blenheim District
    Court for sentencing on the charge last Monday, after driving with a
    blood-alcohol level of 326 milligrams of alcohol per 100 millilitres of
    blood on September 8.”

    The legal limit at the time was 80mg, and is now 50mg.”

    So she would be in excess of the new limit by 6.5 times!

    “Harrison told the court his client had been a sober alcoholic for 10 years.”

    How can you be that drunk and be a sober alcoholic?

    “Florence was a qualified doctor in the United States, but had spent
    some time as a stay-at-home mother of her children in Blenheim, he said.

    She intended to become a registered doctor in New Zealand, which would
    require a refresher course in the States, followed by a supervised
    training programme in New Zealand.”

    So, she’s not a doctor in NZ, and looks like she wouldn’t be able to practice in the states without more work. So the headline is rubbish.

    “Judge Peter Butler said he believed the consequences of a conviction for Florence would outweigh the gravity of her offending.”

    So, justice dispensed only if the excuses do not tickle the judge.

    If I was up before the judge on a similar charge, would I get off? Would you?

    Judge Peter Butler could well be renames Judge Peter Butter!

    • Damon Mudgway

      My analogy in diagram of NZ Judges versus Justice:

    • Imogen B

      So drunk drinking is a minor offence if no one gets killed?
      Anyone want a doctor who falls off the wagon occasionally?

      • OneTrack

        She must know some good jokes as well.

    • Cadwallader

      Absolutely disgraceful conduct by the Judge. What benefit to NZ can a drunken doctor be? Under what heading did Immigration let her in? She admits to being an alcoholic so clearly acknowledges she arrived here with a health issue.

  • Coffee Connoisseur

    At what point are will you be ready to look at starting the transition to a new system…. because if we stick with the current one, things are likely to get a lot more painful for a lot of people very quickly.
    We could of course embrace the technology and shift the goal of the system to one that aims form maximum unemployment leaving only those jobs that can’t be automated to be left to humans to perform.
    Of course if we were to do this what you are experiencing right now on your Christmas holiday could be closer to the norm as you may only need to work 2-3 days per week or possibly less. We won’t know for sure unless we do a review on which jobs can be automated by technology.
    As a side consider that our Hydro Dams were automated back in the late eighties early nineties and we are now another 20 years further ahead.

  • Damon Mudgway

    Jeez, when will it end. MSM hardcore pimping the gangs. Reading this opinion piece, by a learned doctor no less, leaves the reader with the impression that gangs aren’t really a problem at all. Why the glorification of gang life?


    • I.M Bach

      I had considered reading this guy’s book ‘Patched’, just out of curiosity, but not after reading that diatribe.

    • Hard1

      The article fails to mention the Chinese gangs (bulk importers) organisation and structure, the fact that patched gang members make all the muppets do the dirty work, the arrival and effect of the Banditos, the list goes on.
      It must be embedded advertising on behalf of the Headhunters. Why els would the author write “Though a handful of gang members involved in the drug trade is perhaps par for the gang course, there are further subtle developments within the Head Hunters that are more surprising.”
      They’re up to their neck in it.

  • Ginny

    Need help from you men out there. What presents did you receive for Christmas that you really liked? I have to buy a birthday presie for my son in law who has everything.

    • Yeahright

      What age?

    • Yeahright

      I got Whiskey stones, stones you put in the freezer and use instead of ice and then melting ice. Simple cheap but cool. I like them.

      • Ginny

        Where would you buy those?

        • Yeahright

          Trade me, gift shops, just google should be fine.

          • Ginny

            Great, thanks

      • Chris EM

        Highly recommend. Mine are plastic, filled with water or something, but you can enjoy your drink right to the end without it becoming watered down.

    • Don’t give him anything and then you’ve actually given him another reason to moan about his mother on law.

  • Ginny


    • Imogen B

      Sympathy card?

  • Hard1

    A selection from Pope Francis’ 15 “Ailments of the Curia”, seemingly written for the Auckland City Council. The only exclusion is 2) Working too hard. “Rest for those who have done their work is necessary, good and should be taken seriously.”

    1) Feeling immortal, immune or indispensable. “A Curia that doesn’t criticize itself, that doesn’t update itself, that doesn’t seek to improve itself is a sick body.”

    3) Becoming spiritually and mentally hardened. “It’s dangerous to lose that human sensibility that lets you cry with those who are crying, and celebrate those who are joyful.”

    4) Planning too much. “Preparing things well is necessary, but don’t fall into the temptation of trying to close or direct the freedom of the Holy Spirit, which is bigger and more generous than any human plan.”

    5) Working without coordination, like an orchestra that produces noise. “When the foot tells the hand, ‘I don’t need you’ or the hand tells the head ‘I’m in charge.'”

    6) Having ‘spiritual Alzheimer’s.’ “We see it in the people who have forgotten their encounter with the Lord … in those who depend completely on their here and now, on their passions, whims and manias, in those who build walls around themselves and become enslaved to the idols that they have built with their own hands.”

    7) Being rivals or boastful. “When one’s appearance, the color of one’s vestments or honorific titles become the primary objective of life.”

    8) Suffering from ‘existential schizophrenia.’ “It’s the sickness of those who live a double life, fruit of hypocrisy that is typical of mediocre and progressive spiritual emptiness that academic degrees cannot fill. It’s a sickness that often affects those who, abandoning pastoral service, limit themselves to bureaucratic work, losing contact with reality and concrete people.”

    9) Committing the ‘terrorism of gossip.’ “It’s the sickness of cowardly people who, not having the courage to speak directly, talk behind people’s backs.”

    10) Glorifying one’s bosses. “It’s the sickness of those who court their superiors, hoping for their benevolence. They are victims of careerism and opportunism, they honor people who aren’t God.”11) Being indifferent to others. “When, out of jealousy or cunning, one finds joy in seeing another fall rather than helping him up and encouraging him.”

    12) Having a ‘funereal face.’ “In reality, theatrical severity and sterile pessimism are often symptoms of fear and insecurity. The apostle must be polite, serene, enthusiastic and happy and transmit joy wherever he goes.”

    13) Wanting more. “When the apostle tries to fill an existential emptiness in his heart by accumulating material goods, not because he needs them but because he’ll feel more secure.”

    14) Forming ‘closed circles’ that seek to be stronger than the whole. “This sickness always starts with good intentions but as time goes by, it enslaves its members by becoming a cancer that threatens the harmony of the body and causes so much bad ? scandals ? especially to our younger brothers.”

    15) Seeking worldly profit and showing off. “It’s the sickness of those who insatiably try to multiply their powers and to do so are capable of calumny, defamation and discrediting others, even in newspapers and magazines, naturally to show themselves as being more capable than others.”

  • Primrose

    I was just looking at Stuff’s site regarding the loss of Air Asia Flight QZ8501. In one instance they have “Indonesia AirAsia chief executive” and then further down “Malaysia AirAsia chief”. Can’t they make up their minds?

    • Aucky

      They haven’t done their homework (what a surprise) Air Asia is a Malaysian company based in KL. Air Asia Indonesia based in Jakarta and is a subsidiary company with its own aircraft, infrastructure and operating its own routes. Air Asia owns a majority shareholding.

  • Aucky

    I have just read that the NZ Superfund have teamed up with Infratil to buy out Australia’s fourth biggest retirement village company for A$640 million. I wonder what Winston feels about thousands of pensioners having their homes and future security bought out by foreign speculators?

  • Aucky

    It’s going to happen CC as sure as night follows day and there are no signs of mega cruise ship construction slowing down. The other concern that I have is with conventional cruise ships pushing the geographic boundaries and heading into sub-polar waters. There are just no rescue facilities available should the worst happen.

  • Bert Piepoint

    This did not ring right with me, from today’s Herold regarding the guy murdered in the Auckland motel
    “Records show that Mr Gillman-Harris had a love of cars owned at least two Rolls-Royces, a BMW and the blue Range Rover Vogue he was driving on the day he died.
    The Herald also understands he worked as a team leader assistant at the KiwiRail freight terminal in Southdown.”