UK leftie politician gets it right; why can’t ours?

Nick Clegg. Speaking the truth.


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  • Graeme Edgeler

    Have you an example of a lefty MP in New Zealand “getting it wrong” on this issue?

    • hookerphil

      I suppose if you say at all you will not get it wrong, or right.

  • hookerphil

    Fancy caller Omah defending the shooting on the grounds that “lots of things” have happened to Muslims.

    • Coffee Connoisseur

      I don’t believe that’s what he was trying to get across. I think what he was trying to get across was that we need to determine the root cause or causes behind any problem if you truly want to solve it that is of course.

      The problem is twofold.

      1. Muslims need to step back and take a good look at the Koran in the context of the time that it was written. It was a book that was written and appropriate for the time in which it was written and for the goals that the authors wanted/needed to achieve. It was essentially a new religion competing with other very powerful religions and the time, Christianity being the main one. In order for the religion to survive and flourish non believers needed to be put to death. This is more likely to have been to ensure competing ideals did not overtake and do the same to Muslims.
      Christianity went through a period of doing exactly the same thing. It was called the Dark Ages and many many people were drowned burned at the stake and so on,
      But society no longer does those things anymore, they were barbaric and the society we live in is far more civilized now in this day and age. In many ways Christianity and Christians are far better than what is espoused in the bible. You only need to read the book of Leviticus to see this. The so called teachings from Leviticus were also appropriate at the time in which the book was written and again for the goals that Christianity was wanting to achieve.
      But Christians have become civilized since then. Islam needs to do the same. This change needs to be discussed by all Muslims it must be a conversation between Imams and those who attend their Mosques. They must collectively decide this and let the rest of the world know. Do they wish to continue down the path they are on now or seek to be even better than teachings written in and for a totally different time.

      2. The second and what I believe the caller was talking about is the role American Foreign Policy has played over the last 70 odd years in this.
      Now we have ISIS, prior to that we had Al Queda. Both of these groups were armed by the US because it served US foreign policy to do so. But couple that with years of overthrowing democratically elected governments and installing dictators who oppress and torture their populations……
      If we don’t learn from history we are doomed to repeat it. If we aren’t even prepared to look at history to see what lessons we can learn then we are simply doomed.
      (The Right need to stop ignoring this like it doesn’t matter or like accurately like it never happened. It does and this is what has caused radicalization.
      If its easier for you look at the history of Northern Ireland).
      There is a third part and that is on integration into our society. If people want to come to New Zealand ( or France or any other country). Then learn and respect our culture and our way of life. By all means enrich our culture with the good or best parts of yours, The food, the diversity.
      We hold freedom very dear to our hearts, It is part of the foundation on which our society now stands. We fought two world wars over it. If you come to live here prepare to be offended. It is a part of having freedom and living in a free society. If you can’t deal with that, don’t come. If you are already here then feel free to find somewhere else (another country). If you want to live under Sharia then find a country that has it and go and live there instead. For us Sharia is oppression. Oppression is the completely at odds with freedom as we see it and for that reason alone it will never mix with our culture.
      In a civilized society we don’t put people to death for expressing a point of view, no matter how much we disagree with It or are offended by it.

      • The Accountant

        No1 can never happen because it goes against the Pillars of Islam – fundamentals to their faith. They can never challenge the Word of God – the Koran.

    • andrewo

      This is an example of the gradation of belief within that religion. Whilst only a few are prepared to pick up a gun and shoot a cartoonist, you can bet there are hundreds actively supporting them, many thousands in Europe quietly cheering them on and maybe hundreds of thousands finding excuses for the attacks, as did Omar.

  • Wallace Westland

    A free society has the right to offend others. “No one has the right not to be offended”.
    Oh man..if only that was true.
    We live in a society where some members of it do nothing OTHER than be offended and demand their rights not to be.
    Right down to complaining about gender toy searches on Trade Me.

    • Cadwallader

      There is no right to be offended, I agree entirely with that. Having said that there is a right to be offended by personalized acts which amount to either breaches of protocol or plain bad manners. That’s why we exercise courtesy.

      In today’s society it is easy enough to encounter someone whom I regard as an “offence farmer” who spends life looking for things for other people to be offended by. A good example was the complaint about John Key telling Jamie McKay on the Farming Show a couple of year’s ago that he was wearing a “gay red top.” Jamie wasn’t offended but the complaint alleged that the remark was offensive (or could have been offensive) to the gay community. Utter bollocks I think.

      • Wallace Westland


  • Aucky

    Why? Because Nick Clegg lives in a society with so many parallels to France’s problems 24/7. A lefty he may be but he is a Brit first & foremost. Whilst he may not have a global view he is pro-Europe and can see the major threat that these incidents pose. By comparison I sometimes wonder whether our lefty politicians actually have the interests of Kiwis at heart – witness their cavalier handling of the introduction of new security measures. Just opposition for the sake of opposition. Political pygmies.