Whaleoil Backchat

Good Evening, welcome to the daily Whaleoil Backchat.

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  • ozbob68

    Can anyone tell me what Andrea Vance is trying to achieve with her latest column? She starts by talking about Charlie Hebdo then seqways into changes to the Human Rights Commissioner’s office. I know the lefty press are avoiding offence to certain parties by censoring themselves, but Andrea seems to be afraid of even making a coherent point.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/64805051/guardians-of-rights-need-shielding-too

    • Carl

      Has she ever made a coherent point?

      • stephen2d

        One that only Peter Dunne wants to hear.

      • Betty Swallocks

        Well, I managed to read about half of the drivel in the article linked above, and I’d have to say we’re still waiting.

    • jude

      Sorry ozbob68, I just can’t bring myself to follow your link knowing that woman is waiting at the end of it:)
      Thanks for taking one for the team so I don’t have to!

    • caochladh

      That woman is demented. Her life is a constant conspiracy theory.

      • ex-JAFA

        If only her existence was, too.

    • Steve (North Shore)

      Vance should do an essay on how to hack a cellphone

    • yossarian

      I stopped reading the woman a long time ago but I confess I followed the link because I wondered what the issue was. Having done so, maybe she has a point? I have no idea what he proposed law changes are supposed to achieve – can anybody help? – but surely it is important to our democracy that institutions like the Equal Employment and Race Relations Conciliators are retained? Not talking about the people in their roles, but the offices they hold. Vance’s point may not have been well made, but it is valid surely?

      • 1951

        That’s debatable, why should there be separate commissions if the law states clearly that each & everyone be treated as equal? Surely an Ombudmans could handle any contentious avenues? Why should we pay to have another whole branch of bureucrats overseeing what should be fair & just?

        • yossarian

          I agree it is debatable. However, first the roles of the Ombudsmen are not the same as the two Vance says are to be abolished, and second, whatever the law says each and every one of us are not treated as equal. And for a third, even if each and everyone of us were were some institutional arrangements would be needed to make sure things stayed that way.

          • 1951

            I cannot recall any case brought up through the Race Relations Conciliator where I felt the outcome would have been any less beneficial if the complainant hadn’t either handled the situation as an individual or just walked away and pursued another avenue. That whole set-up lets everyone but the media down. It is a big topic but I for one would not rush to defend those commissions existence and whole heartedly support any & all reduction in civil servants. We would all be better off without them in our lives.

          • yossarian

            Most of the cases considered by the RRC you wouldn’t have heard about because only a few get reported in the media. As for your last two sentences, they illustrate your ignorance of what many “civil servants” (a term no longer used in this country by the way) actually do. “Any and all reduction” …….really?

          • 1951

            Yes I’ll admit ignorance but there was a time when things were done somewhat differently and dare I say in a way where respect for another held so much more weight. Civil servant….like …county clerk…. out of date…. but funny same jobs/positions just a difference in the mindset of those who sits in the seats.

          • MaryLou

            Yes, unfortunately we still have a lot of “ism’s” in NZ, more in some parts of the country than others. Or maybe not – maybe just more discreet in some parts than others. It is important that we do not allow it to become insitutionalised. (again)

      • ozbob68

        What power does the EE and RR Conciliators actually have? All I recall hearing from them is how most things are out of their remit. And if the laws of the land (and legal system) are adequate enough to prevent people being discriminated against, what function do they serve? They seem to only really be PR posts, designed to be a talking head on the relevant TV shows whenever issues are raised.

        • yossarian

          Each has their own legislation and powers. I would guess the posts were considered necessary because the laws of the land and legal system were not considered, of themselves, to be sufficient. Or even further, to maintain some kind of overview that the laws and legal system in fact continue to operate effectively for minorities. Why should there be a problem with this? I think your PR/talking head point is trivialising something important in our democratic system.

          • ozbob68

            Yo: Er, you would guess? I am guessing too. I think that’s a problem for both the government and the people occupying those positions, to not have a clear rationale for their existence in the minds of the public. I have surfed through their website and the most they appear to offer is referral to other services or “dispute resolution” services, which is hardly a massive stick to wield.

  • jude

    I have found the articles here on Whale oil very informative and enlightening.
    I also enjoy reading the comments very much too!
    I have spent so much time here I am struggling to finish my holiday read.
    I read that most visits to Whale oil last on average 8 mins?( I think that’s right.)
    I am sure those averages would be way up now.:)

    • 1951

      I believe that the 8 minute thing must be where Cam’s Good Friends check-in to see whether they are featured before they go find another stone under which to hide ;)

    • Caprice

      Even worth logging in just to read the headlines – when is the last time you read one containing the word ‘Boondoggle’.
      On that note, maybe on April 1st I would like a reader to submit a challenging but ficticous story to Cam via the tipline. Something that has these elements or more… Overweight, wild women of French extraction, delivers Green Party pamphlets by bicycle while on the benefit.
      The resultant headline could look like this: Fatty Feral Cheese Eating Trougher, moonlights as Green Taliban Road Louse!

      • 1951

        ‘Maggot’ dear, ….Green Taliban Lycra clad Maggot….get it right next time ;)

  • timemagazine

    Good evening. I just watched on TV the marches against terrosrism by the moderat Muslim community in our big cities. They were led by Minto, Smalley and Norman.
    What is that? I was dreaming?

    • Chris EM

      That’s quite a surreal image. I’m guessing they’ve been reading Whale Oil.

      • Cadwallader

        I question that as far as Smalley is concerned; her reading is usually restricted to a prompter and maybe the occasional fortune cookie? The three of them are just hypocrites. It’ll be back to Hamas hugging by tomorrow.

        • Alright

          The limelight girl is a fraud. Ask people who have the imposition of working with her. All mouth and trousers.

          • Cadwallader

            I gleaned she’s a glib lightweight fool just from listening to her last year. I had not heard of her until she came on to Newstalk ZB. What were they thinking? I avoid her now but on occasions I hear the 6am switch to Hosking. Those few minutes are excruciating…”the day’s waiting get out amongst it!”

    • 1951

      I’m godsmacked….really…..oh they are even lower than the low if that is the case.

      • Rick H

        Everybody has missed what I believe to be timemagazine’s /sarc.
        I think TM was saying they did NOT march anywhere.

        • Isherman

          Ahh, I missed all the news tonight, however it sounds nauseatingly plausible, I could actually see it now I think of it in that sense, lol.

        • OneTrack

          He had me going :-)

        • jude

          My news is here. Sadly some comments just sail right over my head, be it humor or sarcasm. I must be just too literal:)

    • caochladh

      Minto and moderate don’t belong in the same sentence, but I guess there hasn’t been many photo ops for Minto, Smalley and Norman and they wouldn’t miss an opportunity to have have a captive audience.

    • Honcho

      I wonder what they were playing for on this one? I still remember what went on with the last protest Minto was involved in. I’m sure others here remember this one.

    • Curly1952

      Minto is a school teacher with nothing to do at present other than parade up and down. Smalley is on holiday, oops she may as well be on holiday all year and as for Norman, he is on holiday too and I wonder if he will “stand by all his marches”.
      The three of them don’t seem to understand the hypocrisy that they are demonstrating here (no pun intended) and how they won’t support the Government on the GSCB bill but will parade up and down like lemmings to
      virtually confirm what the Government have been saying all along..
      A triumvirate of wasters!!

      • MaryLou

        A School teacher?!? God forbid!

    • Isherman

      Great, so that means next time Hamas or Islamic Jihad get a suicide bomber through to a pizza joint or school bus in Tel Aviv, we can expect to see them leading a march against terrorism?, yeah thought so. So why this one, is it because its become almost ‘trendy’ in a macabre sense, being that Smalley at least thinks of herself as a symbolic 4th Estate victim in this instance. What about all the other extremist atrocities committed virtually every day from West Africa to South Asia, why no marches against those? Hamas hugging hypocrites of the first order the lot of them.

    • Patterson

      Populists politicians trying to hitch a ride on a wave of opinion hoping it will lift their profiles… oh dear that was cynical!

  • stephen2d

    Je tiens a remercier tout le monde ici pour le support que vous avez montres a toute la communaute francaise depuis ces attentats.

  • Cadwallader

    The Cricket World Cup starts in a week or two. I wonder whether we’ll see Minto screaming down his megaphone at either the Pakistani or Afghanistani teams about his issues in the ME? I can still recall him abusing a young Israeli tennis player a few years ago. It would be enjoyable to witness some retaliation from these cricketers…where would they stuff a megaphone if the occasion demanded it?

    • OneTrack

      No, Minto only tackles young female tennis players. He’s a real hard man /sarc.

      • Patterson

        I think that showed Minto’s true colours… a jew baiting anti-semitic coward who
        publicly bullies a young woman to raise his political profile…He’d be right at home in Saudi Arabia!

  • Alright

    Mods: if I’ m not permitted to do this please just remove it…. (I posted it earlier in the day).

    ….So the cheese eating surrender monkeys show their type and style. Again.

    From the MSM: “The least surprising thing about yesterday’s turn of events in Paris
    is that Jews are the target. Because when it comes to home-grown anti-Semitism, France leads the world.”

    “A survey last year from the European Jewish Congress and Tel Aviv
    University found that France had more violent anti-Semitic incidents in
    2013 than any other country in the world. Jews were the target of 40 per
    cent of all racist crimes in France in 2013 – even though they comprise
    less than 1 per cent of the population. Attacks on Jews have risen
    sevenfold since the Nineties.”

    Here’s the thing: there are (apparently) 400,000 Jews in France (100,000 have left in the past year or two. There are (reportedly) 5 million Muslims.

    I’d leave too.

    And in regard to world support for France in-light of recent events I have
    another view: France is getting the bitter harvest it has planted.

    • jude

      Those stats sadden me. I really enjoyed our trip to France and I just cannot fathom the hate held for the Jewish people there.I would leave if I were them too.I would welcome them to New Zealand.
      Of all immigrants I would put them to the top of the list:)

      edit for clarity

      • Whafe

        Any country, city can have scary parts, have spent considerable time in France working, I have felt unsafe there far more times than countries that on the surface people would think would be unsafe…

        The rampant immigration in France is taking away the essence that is France

        • jude

          Bulk of our time was in Provence. I agree that there are scary parts in any country.
          I think we all have to be careful when abroad and trust your gut instincts when it comes to sensing danger.

          • Whafe

            indeed Jude, a must is to use ones instincts and common sense always….

            Outer areas of Paris, of which is a huge city, had some scary parts, was not pleasant by any means… In saying that though, France has loads of amazing spots… Glad that my work takes me to Leon, really like this little city… The best men’s shoe stores – yeah ha

      • Alright

        Totally Jude.!!

        The Jewish religion has delivered more benefit to civilization as Muslim-hood.

        PS I’m not Jewish.

        • Rick H

          What “benefit to civilization” has Muslim-hood ever delivered? ever?

          • Aucky

            Read your Spanish history about the Moors.

          • Isherman

            Scientific method, algebra, algorithms and the arabic numerals we all use for starters.

          • Rick H

            Islam / muslim has only been around for around 1200-1300 years.
            most of what you name there has been around for thousands longer than that.

          • Isherman

            Well if you are referring to the contribution of the religion itself, I agree with you completely. The point I was making was more in relation to what Islamic Scholars have contributed over the centuries, and in fields other than the religion itself. Its true that much of the learning of ancient Greeee was transmitted to Europe by Arabic scholars that happened to be Muslim as well, during the so called golden years from the 8th – 12th centuries when Europe was in the dark ages and learning was quite limited. Scholars such as Ibn al Haytham refined the modern concept of what we call the scientific method, principally from his experimentation and work on Optics, and thus he is widely regarded as the father of the scientific method. Similarly, Jabir Ibn Hayyan was instrumental in early chemistry, which at the time was largely more alchemy than modern chemistry. Whilst we can debate the merits of Islamic religion, we achieve little by practicing a sort of cultural amnesia where we pretend that the Islamic world per- se hasn’t contributed anything, because its simply not true.

      • Bluemanning

        Open the gates to the French Jewish people, excellent and mutually beneficial but would they wish to come here?

        • jude

          I know we have a left wing who are intolerant of Jewish people here too.
          I think there are more people who would support them than discriminate ?
          Our latest election gives me hope.

          • Bluemanning

            I feel they would receive more support than not; I intuitively believe that is true and we would be welcoming.
            Our dear left and their MSM mouthpiece would only show themselves up by being anti-Semitic.

          • Aucky

            We are very lucky as a nation to have our Jewish community. I don’t believe that the left is generally anti-Semitic; anti-Israel yes but not anti-Jewish and yes there is a difference. I have Australian Jewish friends who are very critical of Israeli policies but are quite devout in their religious practises. I also have Kiwi Jewish friends who are solid Labour supporters.

          • jude

            I am remembering the poster of John Key wearing a Nazi uniform and the hate speeches around that time.
            Agree, I am generalizing.

          • MaryLou

            Agreed the only caveat would be who organised the remarkably similar defacement of JK’s billboards all over the country? The idea of depicting him as an Orthodox Jew would not have occurred to your average punter with a spray can

          • Aucky

            The left does not have a monopoly on Nazi nutbars. I’m not sticking up for the left but I just don’t think that it does our credibility too much good by blaming anti-Semitism totally on lefties. Anti-Zionist or anti-Israel they may be but not anti-Semitic.

          • MaryLou

            No they don’t. Just not sure it’s easy to tell from the outside whether flag-burning/sign defacement etc is anti whichever. Was thinking how lucky we are to be (currently) distant from Europes history and animosities, yet old prejudices have a habit of still cropping up.

    • stephen2d

      I think you’ve got it wrong. The anti semi toms comes from the different type of residents. But hey, you seem to know everything already without actually researching things a bit more. Statistics are like a bikini, they reveal quite a lot, but don’t show anything.

      • Alright

        The French failed colonizations allowed these people a “birthright”

    • caochladh

      I guess the Jews remember well how as French citizens they were betrayed by the French government and sent to the Nazi death camps. http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/genocide/jewish_deportation_01.shtml

      • jude

        Thank you for that link.I rest my case.
        You along with many other commenters provide us with information and encourage education.
        This for me is a classic example of why Whale Oil, as a blog, trumps all others.
        Long may that continue. My holiday read can take a back seat for now:)

      • conwaycaptain

        Also the Dreyfus Affair
        In his defence a French Author, Emile Zola, wrote J’Accuse

      • dgrogan

        No wonder Jews are leaving France in their droves. Betrayal is something you don’t forget… or forgive.

      • Aucky

        The Velodrome d’Hiver atrocity went largely unreported for obvious reasons. The French collaborators had much to answer for.

    • Dave

      Ah, the law of unintended consequences, or stupid non strategic decisions. France will suffer a minor drop in tourism as a result of the terror raids, and now they highlight the persecution of Jews, forcing them from France……. Which in turn highlights the number of Muslims in France, now most are peaceful, but if one in 1000 muslims is extreme, thats a potential 5,000 muslim extremists in France. Good luck france, i know who I would be exiting.

    • Isherman

      Thats fine, but why should there be have any need to even contemplate leaving, its their country, and many French Jewish families would have been there for centuries. If they all felt the need to flee, then they have simply done the work of the Islamo-fascists for them. 70 years after one form of fascism caused Poland to lose basically all of its ancient Jewish population, should Europe allow it again under a new type of fascism?

      • Whafe

        Should Europe?? ;)

        They are, right np beneath their noses

        • Isherman

          Exactly, unfortunately.

  • Honcho

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/australia/64839490/sydney-siege-victim-katrina-dawson-shot-by-police

    Title; Sydney siege victim Katrina Dawson shot by police …

    I for one am disgusted by this headline, finally the media acknowledges who were the two ‘REAL’ victims in Sydney (however they are yet to recognise the others who survived with the horrors of that day which will follow them for the rest of their lives), but to say that she was shot dead by police is a lie and does little but spin up hype amongst the conspiracy theorists and anti-government lunatic fringe.

    She was struck indirectly by a ricochet or bullet fragment (to be confirmed by the official report), other café goers also required medical treatment. When you throw thunder flashes into a crowded café people are going to be injured, seriously injured, when you fire live rounds then something like this is liable to happen. The police that day did a brilliant job, the right course of action was to continue negotiations, there was never going to be an easy outcome. To criticise the police for doing the best anyone in the world could have is exceedingly harsh on them, this isn’t Hollywood.

    • peterwn

      I just Checked the Sydney Morning Herald web site – Stuff would have got its story off that (both Fairfax). The SMH headline was:

      “Martin Place siege victim Katrina Dawson struck by a police bullet, investigations show”

      If SMH ran the Stuff headline I think there would be rioting outside the SMH office.

  • Steve (North Shore)

    There is no oil in France, why are the muslims there?
    Sorry, stupid me, and stupid France

  • Nirvana10

    I see that Rupert Murdoch is being ridiculed for tweeting what I would have thought was the obvious! If peace-loving Muslims aren’t able to reign in the extremists of their Islamic faith then what hope do the rest of us infidels have.

    • dgrogan

      He has a very valid point. Or does it just confirm that the Muslim silent majority are indeed irrelevant?

    • Whafe

      Funny you mention this, was speaking with my dad about this exact point today. If there is in fact, which I don’t think there is, moderate Muslims,mwah are they as you mention, not reigning in the extremist Muslims?

      And yes, some will say they are, but our ears and eyes are not furnished with considerable Muslims condemning outright these terrorist attacks.

    • intelligentes candida diva

      We may have more hope than they because there is not the same fear and hate indoctrinated into us….just saying

      Soldier on brave people !!!!

      I speak as a Christian my hope lies in my faith.
      “1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen” 
      http://biblehub.com/kjv/hebrews/11.htm

      • Murray Smith

        It’s going to take more than faith, I feel.

  • ex-JAFA

    Greenie feelgood stuff on TV1 right now, presented by Andrew Radar. A farmer is going on about being entirely GE-free… as they show orange carrots being harvested. Carrots are only orange because of GE!

    • MaryLou

      What colour should they be??

      • MaryLou

        Look at that – answered my own question…http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrot

      • ex-JAFA

        I believe they were white, like a parsnip, before the Dutch did some GE to honour the House of Oranje.

        • Reaper

          The wild carrot root is white, but they come in many colours. I have red and purple ones growing. This comes from selective breeding however, which is not quite the same as the GE he is talking about.

  • MaryLou

    Was trying to dig out information on Anonymous (which surprise, surprise is really hard), and came across one of their latest projects – Operation Death Eater, which focusses on International (but often UK) paedophilia rings. Not much info on website, but if you are on Twitter, some awful, awful information coming through. If they can back up what they’re saying, and the victim statements that they have published parts of – well, it doesn’t get much worse: http://anonhq.com/anonymous-exposing-uk-pedophilia-ring-opdeatheaters/

    • Reaper

      Interesting. Ben Rachinger claims to be working on Op DeathEaters.

      • MaryLou

        Yeah – it was his Tweets the other night that got me looking round. If this is what he’s been working on, no wonder he looks to be in bad shape. Tonights tweets of partial statements makes you need a bucket nearby. Truly awful.

        • la la land

          Yep bet uncovering some of that can really eat you up… And he is furious about national covering up the domestic abuse perpetuated by one of its senior office holders – I have to say I agree with him

          • MaryLou

            If half of what is coming out is provable, we have a VERY big problem on our hands. We, being a lot of different countries. If faith in governmental leadership can be proven to be this broken, where to next?

  • Dave

    Not all hope is lost with the Media calling out Islam, or the extremists, this article in Aussie is worth a read, and good on RITA PANAHI for writing the article, she is 100% correct, and recieving a lot of support.

    “Radical Islam and western values cannot coexist peacefully”

    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinion/radical-islam-and-western-values-cannot-coexist-peacefully/story-fni0fhh1-1227178804093?login=1#social-comments

    • Wasapilot

      WOW, the best article I have seen in MSM, WOW!

      • Dave

        She is a brave lady, and big ups to the editor for publishing it.

        Hey Herald and Stuff, have you got the dangly leather things to run this story, Nah, didnt think so.

    • caochladh

      Excellent article, telling it as it is, well done!

    • Greg M

      Very good article Dave, no chance of seeing our pathetic MSM publishing anything like that.

    • Isherman

      Yep, good articles. The headline of the first one struck me though, and to me is stating the obvious, of course ‘radical’ Islam will not co-exist peacefully. The bigger and far more uncomfortable question is can ‘Islam’ co-exist comfortably with western values, that’s where the guts of the debate is, and where Islam needs to address some issues.

      • Dave

        Precisely, that is where the biggest issue lies. If I think back, the Catholic church has changed their views etc quite a bit in my lifetime, they have relaxed a few things and perhaps moved slightly with the times. However, Islam (in my opioion) is rooted in the past, the doctrines of hate run deep ,and no, they cannot change.

        • Isherman

          For me the current problems with the ideology of extremism go back to the likes of Hassan Al- Banna in the late 20’s and later figures such as Sayyid Qutb. It was they who introduced the ‘revivalism’ of Islamic ideology and taken together with other wider issues in the post Ottoman Empire Arab world. laid the foundation of the ideology that has persisted to this day. The two figures I mention above are probably critical to an understanding of how Islamism has evolved, and I would encourage anyone with the time or interest to make themselves familiar with them and the movement they began and developed.

          edit: added missed word.

          • JeffW2

            I would suggest OPEC and the oil price rises of the 70s has a lot to do with it as well – at $10 oil, KSA etc cannot afford to fund the building of Madrasses and staff them with Wahabis.

          • Isherman

            Well its certainly true that the middle eastern states as petro- dollar economies form an important part of the overall geo-politics of the region as effective client states of the west, particularly from around 1908 onwards, but its a vast topic in itself. Funny you say though, lately I’ve been delving into the history of some of the dodgy goings on with the Anglo Persian oil company, they likewise are relevant to the overall topic.

    • Moonroof

      Good post Dave, damnit, it’s not the fault of the rest of us. Radical Islamofascism owns it. “We cannot be scared into reqd. silence or intimidated into self-blame; the
      problem lies with radical Islam not our Western democratic societies.” Dead right. No Tui billboard reqd.

    • Bluemanning

      Thank you Dave,

  • Moonroof

    This post conatins no Islam-related content. Sunday evening with some vintage tones from Lou Reed. Been a while since I dusted off speaking platter, glad I did. No matter how hideous the world is getting, take 5 to enjoy the musical arts, time out.

    • intelligentes candida diva

      Like minded Moonroof

  • intelligentes candida diva

    For those at Charlie Hebdo , watching Patrick Pelloux speak Im sure they have no regrets, and for all who value the freedoms they have. I feel sad having been to France I love so much about its culture
    A little music please :-)

    Les Chansons de Edith Piaf : Non, je ne regrette …: http://youtu.be/yGx0RJ3WzrA

    • Bluemanning

      This song has been in my head these last days; may be prompted from the sad events and memories accrued from days long gone by with thoughts of European friends across the sea.

    • Betty Swallocks

      Very apt. France has some good memories for us too. Edith Piaf never did much for me, but I like this lady – I reckon she could sing excerpts from the Yellow Pages and make it sound great! In the interests of fairness and balance I looked on Youtube for a version with half the verses in Arabic, but there doesn’t appear to be one.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3IvXo0W1YI

      • intelligentes candida diva

        Beautiful. In 2007 I was in Aix En Provence and was at a cafe and 2 young Algerian French males approached me. They treated me like a celebrity as I had my rugby top on after the AB Italy game in Marseille. They took me for a tour of everything Cezanne, stopped for a cup of tea at a tea house, insisted on paying for evening meal and dropped me off to where I stayed.
        It was a pleasurable humbling experience and remains a fond memory they were so kind to me and although there was a language barrier it didnt matter facial expressions are a language. They LOVED the ABs

  • ogm

    I wonder if our Prime Minister is rethinking his idea of a black flag with a white symbol on it as our countries national standard

    • Moonroof

      I wish…

  • spanishbride

    Message for the MSM

  • Alright

    Telling it like it really is…

    • intelligentes candida diva

      He is good I can relate to his style of articulation :-)

      • Alright

        A confession. I was so engaged by his articulation I laughed out loud a number of times during his deeply precise and sad rendition of a problem rocking the world.Then again, if you can’t laugh in the face of adversity…

  • MaryLou

    A German newspaper that republished Hebdo’s cartoons has just had an arson attack http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-01-11/arson-attack-on-german-newspaper-that-published-charlie-hebdo/6011338

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