Whaleoil General Debate

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  • Korau

    Word of the day

    mulligrubs (noun) – 1. A griping of the intestines; colic.
    2. Sullenness; the sulks.

    Source : http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Mulligrubs

    • Jafarma

      2 = KDC?

    • Betty Swallocks

      As in “When he saw how he had fared in his home town of New Plymouth on election night, it precipitated a bout of the mulligrubs that was only relieved when he was elevated to the Party’s leadership”

  • George

    As repugnant as any slaying of innocent people is, I feel the five page spread, the editorial, the cartoon and other miscellaneous comments presented to us in today’s NZ Herald concerning the slayings in France isn’t so much about the incident itself, but an expression of their (journalists) own belief that their status is at a far higher plain than it is. Had it been twelve assorted members of the public who were gunned down I doubt the hysteria whould have been to this degree. People are being slaughter every day around the world by these maniacs, none of who’s life is any less valuable. The fact that the victims were journalists doesn’t elevate the atrocity.

    • Not-an-expert

      The fact they were journalists and ones who helped mock silly ideas in some cases is targeted killing to send a message of “do not speak about us the way we do not want you to.” The idea is to terrorise so, George, think again.

      • dgrogan

        I think George is saying that the senseless murder of just anyone is no less abhorrent than an attack on free expression.

      • George

        During our lives we learn that freedom of expression can invite unwanted consequences. There is a fine line between heroism and foolishness. These journalist, while alive, could have been consided foolish by some by their desire to antagonising those who clearly wanted them dead. They are now heros.

    • Cowgirl

      The media have finally got their dearest wish – they have become the news – so they’re milking it for all it’s worth, so we can all finally see how important they are, and what a noble, selfless job they do.

  • Aucky

    I have watched TV One News all this week. Just one presenter, the ever calm & always pleasant Peter Williams. He’s a pleasure to have in your lounge talking to you rather than presenters ranting at you. No Corin Dann party political broadcasts means more time for overseas footage of real news.

    It can’t last though and next week will undoubtedly see Peter Williams replaced by the ‘all teeth & tits’ duo and Dann back with his jaundiced views on NZ politics. Time then for me to return to Prime News.

    • Euan Ross-Taylor

      I have been watching Al Jazeera and am becoming a ‘convert’. Real news of the world without any hysteria. I will not be going back to the talking heads channels.

      • Catriona

        We watch Al Jazeera frequently. An intelligent channel.

    • Cadwallader

      I have had a similar reaction to the enjoyable Breakfast programme on ZB with Tim Dower. He is considered and measured and not so glossy as Mike Hosking who nudges showing-off from time to time. Mr Dower is under-used at ZB in my opinion.
      TV News in NZ, such as it is, is not a part of my life.

      • Dumrse

        The Xmas break is enough of Tim Dower. His voice is somewhat boring and repetitive.

        • Cadwallader

          I accept I am insulting practically everyone else at ZB by making this comparison: Tim Dower’s voice may be boring to some ears but my point is he can compose a decent question whereas the “journalist” Ms Smalley is too inept to do so and flutters about topics with little resolve. If she has the “ability” to host a show surely Mr Dower can too?

          • Aucky

            I rather suspect that Tim Dower hasn’t got mates in the right places. He would make the ideal replacement for Danny Watson whom I turn off without fail.

          • DavidW

            I suspect that Kerre whatsername (nee Woodham) is taking over from Watson in 2016.

          • 1951

            That was announced some time ago but it will be months away before the change over. My heart sank when I heard that. Tim Dower would be preferable.

          • Aucky

            I don’t have a big beef with Kerre Woodham but it’s the awful night time audience that she brings with her. My God they are a dreary boring lot.

          • Cadwallader

            Apparently Marcus Lush is arriving to take on the evening show. I wager the audience won’t change dramatically.

          • steve and monique

            I think even considering “Smalley minded” a “journalist” would be giving her too much credit. She is a lipgloss wearing bulldog who just prefers to rant and push her own one eyed biased political view at any chance she can get. I wouldn’t discuss the colour of orange juice with that one! Sorry, I had to say it

          • Cadwallader

            You certainly won’t receive any argument from me on this. I really believe she is deficient in her ability to conceptualize and frame a decent question. Why KPMG continue to sponsor her silly apology for a programme evades me!

          • Dumrse

            I was going to comment on his better journalistic,announcer skills, certainly better than smalley.

    • Blue Tim

      TV1 & TV3 and the the 7 o’clock women’s magazine shows that follow them were banned in my house several years ago. We record Prime News (with my Mrs favourite Eric Young) and Crowd goes wild to watch at our convenience later in the evening

  • intelligentes candida diva

    Good morning. I have the day off work and it is beautiful blue sky sun shine and calm, I see a walk on the beach happening not too far away ….feeling lucky/blessed.

  • Jafarma

    I think this opinion piece by Karl Du Fresne on police zero tolerance sums up the situation very well:
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/comment/64786447/police-erode-public-faith-with-zero-tolerance-zeal

    • All_on_Red

      He’s a great writer.

  • Honcho

    A policewoman is shot and killed and another injured by assailants armed with automatic weapons in Montrouge in the last 11 hours, but the media are still throwing their collective weights behind leading with reports of non-damaging, non-injury causing explosions outside a mosque in le mans.

    I am proud of the french and the ‘je suis charlie’ movement. Sydney could learn a lot from it, there was something that sickened me about the #illridewithyou trend when for the last two months ADF personnel have been advised not to commute within their own country in their uniforms … worse still now it’s been revealed to be a green party hoax.

    The real victims are the brave police, the civilians going about their business as they damn well have the right to do, and sadly freedom of speech has been caught up in collateral damage.

    Je suis Charlie

    • ex-JAFA

      “Ich bin Lindt”.

  • grumpy

    It is now becoming obvious that the Paris terrorist attack was never about “avenging the prophet”. It was a clear warning to the media to be more Islam friendly!…..and it worked, the MSM and leaders are all about the “religion of peace”, front pages carry prominent stories about victimless vandalism of mosques and individuals getting picked on because they are Muslim.

  • Cadwallader

    Having slept on this I raise a passing matter from yesterday. A post was made by Richard McGrath who I understand is a former leader of the Libertarianz regarding the murders in Paris by Islamos. Mr McGrath’s post was deemed to be too much of an incitement due, I perceive, to the inclusion of a single sentence wherein he suggested destruction of mosques and internment of Muslims in NZ. I most certainly do not endorse the destruction of mosques or other places of private worship and said so later in the thread. However I am troubled by Mr McGrath’s being “sent to Coventry.” The reason why I feel this way is the subject matter of the thread. The right to freedom of speech. I make the following points:
    1 This blog is a private domain where the rules of participation are solely at the discretion of the owner and his appointed managers/moderators. (This fact in part supports the owner’s freedom of expression.)
    2 This blog is an unencumbered place for the expression of views within calculated but wavering limits.
    3 This blog was apparently being scoured by other media yesterday for some less than savoury sound-bite materials for a once over lightly report for the watchers of glib television news. I understand the need for decorum in those circumstances.
    4 Had Mr McGrath’s post of yesterday been presented in cartoon form would it have been found to have been acceptable?
    5 If I am also sent to Coventry for this message I ask that it remain up for further debate.
    Thank you.

    • 1951

      I was busy and so missed comment you are referring to, but understand why you are raising the subject. Again it is a question of ‘responsibility’ just as Charlie’s cartoons. Do they…. print/not print v reaction…. Who is responsible? Of course we blame those that ‘react’, they chose to and committed horrendous vile murders, in totally unwarranted retaliation.
      We scoffed at BBC for pixilating photos of Paris murders but they are so close to the knife’s edge that that may have been the wisest thing to do at this stage.
      Back to comment suggesting the ‘burning’, can that not be interpreted as a suggestion/option to be taken up by some. Is that not then inciting others?

      • Cadwallader

        The point you make is valid and weighty. My questioning the stance was primarily motivated by Mr McGrath’s comment not being acceptable in its totality. Further the on-duty moderator added that:
        a The comment could remain for further debate and;
        b Those of us who had up-ticked it were noted and under observation.

        Leaving the comment open could, under your perception, be seen as furthering the difficulties which were generated by the initial comment. For the record I do not recall whether I up-ticked the comment but given my personal knowledge of Dr McGrath I most likely did so. Thanks for your thoughts.

    • Michael_l_c

      Cadwallader. As you clearly state I think the answer is in 4. Unfortunately the msm do not believe in freedom of expression, only their freedom to say what they want & distort what others say too fit their agenda.
      Whilst I understand why someone may respond and write, what you believe was, the inflamatory part of y’days post, I certainly do not agree with it. We are better than that.
      Freedom of expression has over most of history been limited particularly regarding various forms of incitement.
      Hopefully you remain, your argument is reasoned & thoughtful as are most if not all of your posts.
      I think deleting difficult posts with a warning would often suffice unless someone is continually offensive.

      • Cadwallader

        Thank you Michael. My response below to 1951 pertains too.

      • Cadwallader

        Michael, if I am completely honest, Dr McGrath’s suggestion that Muslims be interned and mosques desecrated would’ve been acceptable with the application of the suffix…”not yet.” If, as has been written here, the West is at war with Islam then the measure of internment may evolve into a wartime necessity. I have read of the poor treatment Japanese citizens of California received after Pearl Harbour so internment became a refuge for them along with it being a place of confinement.

        • Michael_l_c

          I believe there was a contingent, not sure of size, of American troops of Japanese ethnicity as well.

          • conwaycaptain

            They had a large contingent and they fought v bravely in Italy.
            One of them was severley wounded ended up as the Senator for Hawaii and had the Congressional Medal of Honor.

    • EveryWhichWayButLeft

      Interesting observation Cadwallader. I think the key here is inciting others to break the law. Damage or destruction of private property is against the law, regardless of whether you agree with their ideology or not.

      With events such as yesterday, emotion can run pretty high and people can say some pretty stupid things. What we shouldn’t be doing is encouraging anyone to harm other people or their property.

      Free speech is paramount in a free society – NZ recently ranked #1 in the world for social freedom and that is something we should all be proud of and do our best to defend. Provided you choose your language appropriately (use the right tone), you should be able to say [almost] anything here.

      Suggesting harm to people or property is one of very few exceptions to that rule.

  • Don’t Stop Me Now

    Just a random question: How did Gareth Hughes get to Ecuador for the APEC Meeting without massively increasing his carbon footprint and/or using fossil fuels, or their byproducts?

    • Eiselmann

      Flying Saucer …he no doubt has contacts from his studies of UFO cults.

    • Michael_l_c

      Bicycle powered boat. Hypocrites who never explain what they do.

  • Monty Bank

    Prophets

    Fear prophets and those prepared to die for the truth, for as a rule they make many others die with them, often before them, at times instead of them. -Umberto Eco, philosopher and novelist (b. 5 Jan 1932)

    • Michael_l_c

      islam is not the truth. Some muslims believe it is and that is the problem – an irrational extreme belief.

  • Isherman

    It was dissapointing if not suprising yesterday, to read posts by some commentators of the left accusing the right of playing politics with the atrocious events in France. Some of the inferences include: the right using these events to push a political interest in promoting division, the justification to erode personal liberties with wide intrusive state surveillance, and even attempting to turn the discussion into a call for religious war. To my mind, it is actually they who are playing the politics here, and turning an act of terrorism into a narrative of blame. The valid discussions that are being held (accross the political spectrum) are, or at least should be first and foremostly concerned with a serious and international problem that exists, one that affects the security of ordinary people all over the globe, and not strictly limited to those living in western democratic countries either. They seem to ignore the fact that countries with Socialist governments and liberal societies are in no way immune from this cancer, so suggesting that if we all just take the dialogue and hug approach, and bury our heads in the sand to some stark realities that it will all just go away. Sadly, I believe we have not yet seen the apex of Islamic extremism. That apex IMO will not just be further attacks such as we have already seen, but region wide conflicts that will have a global impact. If the left want to contribute, then start with some honesty and lets discuss the problem. Finally, they should remember that while we may disagree with the politics of the other, we are bound in our duty to protect the very freedoms that democracy and free speech allow us. Our freedoms will not be taken away from us by the State seeking to protect its citizens by keeping abreast of threats, it will be taken away from us by a ready acquiescsnce to intolerance and barbarism that we allow to fester and grow in our society.

    • Cadwallader

      Very well said. Let us not forget that the targeted magazine is “of the Left” and that France has a long and reasonably stable history of socialist governments.

    • Michael_l_c

      We will know if muslims support murderers or not, if or when their religious leaders openly and loudly condemn such conduct and furthur instruct their communities to ‘out’ such criminals.
      The muslim association condemned the murders this morning, still no religious leaders. Shame on them.

    • Elevated to Comment of the Day at 13:15 today.

  • Peter Maguire

    If you thought revisiting the green party press releases article yesterday was good – see the latest – It’s Gold https://home.greens.org.nz/press-releases/10-litre-petrol-prices-decade-wake-call

    EDIT: Apostrophe

    • Michael_l_c

      If
      the greenies believed what they sprouted they would gamble on the
      futures market and all be rich
      poor, which would remind them how wrong they were.

      • MrHippo

        Well it wouldn’t be a gamble in their eyes because it is the ‘truth’. They could use all the profit they would make to fund their campaign and fulfill their social agenda. All they need is enough cash to fund the initial margin…

        Seriously it may introduce some market discipline to their thinking. Like ‘nothing focuses your thoughts like a position’ and ‘the market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent’

    • Chris

      “We need to rapidly and urgently invest in decent public transport in our cities, towns and provinces.”

      so how do those of us who live in more remote parts of the country get to the areas where these services will be available? are we supposed to get on our pushbikes or horses?

      And”We also need to invest in high speed broadband that will allow us to
      work and communicate more easily without travelling so much.”
      I would love to see how this is going to make it easier for all those hard working people doing manual jobs making things for him to eat and use. How can Broadband be used to grow grass, or milk a cow or shear a sheep or grow vegetables for example?

      • Rick H

        Wussel and Material are still completely unaware of why none of the Gweens actually “won” an election seat – ever.

  • Gaynor

    “A problem for terror investigators: Too many to watch”

    Not a headline we want to see here …How many countries are now finding that they have this problem?

    http://edition.cnn.com/2015/01/08/politics/terror-investigators-have-too-many-to-watch/index.html

    • 1951

      Maybe think about repeating this on Backchat Gaynor. There is so much to discuss…

    • conwaycaptain

      In WW 2 alien nationals could be interned as there were not very many of them, inc the Japanese nationals in the US.
      Now it would be impossible to intern 4 million in France, 2 million in the UK etc etc of these enemy aliens ie Muslims. Even in NZ we have 40K
      First of all stop any immigration, stop bringing in wives/husbands from the home country, start deporting ANY who step out of line that might bring them up with a round turn and two half hitches.

  • countproperly

    A journalist miles apart from the panty waists that we have, her twitter account is also worth a read….http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/opinion/islam-you-have-a-very-serious-problem/story-fni0cwl5-1227178806993

  • intelligentes candida diva

    To date I admire how The French are conducting themselves; articulate proactive and measured meeting adversity head on but not hysterical.
    Nabila Ramdani on Al Jazeera stated she believed the way the situation has been reported is because people more focused ” …. on sacred values that need to be protected…..”
    Perhaps all politicians in NZ need to regroup and consider what are the “sacred values” in NZ that require protection, it would be a unified beginning to prevent a similar event here….. just pondering.
    My heart goes out to the families reeling from a loved one killed from all that has taken place in the last few days.

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