Will there be other resignations inside National?

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Going into his third term John Key has to be very careful he isn’t painted into a corner as being arrogant and out of touch.

After not acting decisively over Mike Sabin, who was allowed to linger, Key is likely to be accused of having low ethical standards.   

Any other National people with skeletons in their closet like domestic violence should be told to leave now, before the blowback hits Key and National.

Protecting people who have offended against women and children is a surefire vote loser.

It is never going to work especially when the Labour caucus know all about the offending and are looking to nail Key in the first sitting session this year.

 


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  • chrisgale

    The trouble is the current threshold for violence, which is a climate of fear or verbal & an unsubstantiated and untested allegation by one party. This leads to the police informing one party (generally the man) that they must leave forthwith and not be at the house for five days. The chaos this causes on farms and in other circumstances where one works from home cannot be underestimated.

    I don’t know what happened to Sabin. I do know that every survey with good methodology on domestic violence (called intimate partner violence in the scholarly literature shows that men and women hit and abuse each other at roughly the same rate.

    I just see the broken men after they have been through the wringer: it is almost as if being a husband is considered a criminal act by the family courts.

    • Backdoor

      However, I would rather be hit by a woman than a man. On average women do not have the same upper body strength. And yes, I accept there are exclusions to any statement.

      • Rick H

        I’ve seen a woman banging her head against the side of a house till the blood ran down to her shoes – and her partner going to jail for it.

        • Michael

          Why didn’t you make a statement to the police?

        • pixman55

          well Rick was this “Woman” a close friend or relative? Why did you Not give a Statement to the police saying What you saw? Your In action means you With held evidence. it is never to late to go to the police.. OK the Guy May have been beating his partner in the pas But in this case You Saw her Banging her head Did nothing and allowed the guy to go to prison

          • Rick H

            Statement WAS given. this whole episode is a bit “close to home” for me to add further comment, in fact I now regret posting it.

    • Boris Piscina

      I know a few guys (and know of a few more) who have had their firearms and licences taken by the Police, almost as the first response, when their partner has cried “wolf” even though the incident in question was nothing beyond an argument turned screaming match – and as often as not a fairly even screaming match.
      The idea of using any kind of actual physical violence, let alone a firearm, against their partners or children, would be more light years from their minds than the Crab Nebula. Neither guns nor the use thereof have ever been features in said screaming match.
      But take their guns the State does, and it can take years and thousands of dollars to get them back.
      Is that justice?
      Just asking.

  • Catriona

    So, what inside info do you have presently on other National MP’s who’ve transgressed and that don’t know about it yet? Does this also include dirt on other MP’s in the opposition parties?

    • Sally

      It doesn’t have to be a MP. Could be someone in the National executive.

  • caochladh

    “Protecting people who have offended against women and children is a surefire vote loser”. What about “people” who have offended against men, or is that seen as a vote winner.

  • niggly

    Typical Labour – always seems to have the dirt and always quite happy to turn dirt into mud to start chucking at National. It seems like that’s all that Labour are good for.

    Certainly not policy, certainly not engaging with middle NZer’s, not concentrating on building a positive future for the country.

    Granted, if the accusations against Sabin are true, not good and he should be dealt to, but try and tell me there hasn’t been a Labour politician that hasn’t allegedly done similar. I don’t see any dirt being flung from National, ever.

    Perhaps the “Dirty Politics” meme was misappropriated by Hager, and taken at face value “Dirty Politics” in this context really is, as always and at taxpayer expense, the Labour Party!

    • Jacob Wadsworth

      The entire political spectrum is absolutely corrupt in this country, they haven’t served the interests of the people since corporate bribery was legalised.

      • Jacob Wadsworth

        All sides are bribed into serving the same agenda, name me one western government that even came close to following through with the policies that their voters actually wanted. You cant, National has only enacted the corporations policies so far, they ignore us wholesale and enact law even with blinding referendum majority being opposed, the “i’ll do what i like” mentality. Obama campaigned on inequality only to enact the inequal policies of the corporations who bought him off once he obtained power and do absolutely nothing to ensure the collective population was any part better off

    • pixman55

      Niggly National party Supporter what about Big Gerry using the Gerry door to get onto a flight? and getting away with it. if i had done it it would be treated as a Serrious Crime a Huge fine or Prison but Big G gets a slap on the hand with a Wet flight ticket.

  • mike

    Did Key actually have any really reason to remove Sabin from Cabinet or the party, there was evidence against Williamson and some serious allegations against Collins… all there is/was against Sabin was rumours.

    Or have I missed something?

    • Tom

      Yep you probably missed something

    • Wendy

      There is way more than rumour. Just because you don’t know what it is doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

      • mike

        Only way it’s not a rumour is if there are facts, facts require evidence and I haven’t seen any. So if you have some then please point me in the right direction.

        I have seen reports that he is part of an investigation, but then again we live in a country where you are meant to be presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

        Now I don’t condone violence, but until someone is found guilty or there is undeniable proof that they have done something then we should reserve judgement.

        • Jacob Wadsworth

          You wont see any evidence yet you moron, thers an ongoing police investigation, Key knows there is no buying Sabin’s way out and now hes been pushed out the door, crony dumbass. The right direction will be released when this all goes through court, except the cronyism will come to light again in the form of court ordered suppression to prevent Keys face having even more egg on it.

          • mike

            Moron huh? So if we can’t see any evidence Einstein then how can we “know” anything?

            I do love the personal attacks, Pete must be having the day off :-)

            I’m guessing that with you using words like cronyism that you are either a Green or Labour supporter… all I’m doing is saying that in NZ we are presumed innocent until proven guilty.

          • Jacob Wadsworth

            Yes MORON. Ongoing investigation means NO EVIDENCE WILL BE RELEASED UNTIL TRIAL. Key’s denials are simply what I called them, he knew and he fully knew, just like he knew all about all of the others.

            And your saying far more than that so don’t make lame attempts to hide it.

            I dont support Labour or the “idiotic” Greens because they are just as corrupt and paid off as National. Fact is that the corporates want National to stay in and part of paying off the big parties to stay out is that they make themselves look unelectable.

            Get a brain, connect it to some eyes and see through the BS.

          • Jacob Wadsworth

            Why do you think Russell Norman left? It all made him sick to his stomach and he wouldn’t do it any longer, it wasn’t being paid 6 figures to be in opposition that made him quit.

          • pixman55

            So if Sabin is Innocent why did he resign ? an Innocent man would front up and say i am Innocent and will prove that in court .

          • mike

            Why did Banks resign? To focus all his energy on the case and to remove a source of aggravation for National. Who is to say that wasn’t Sabin’s reasoning?

            Now I’m not defending the man, all I’m doing is saying lets have one standard for everybody.

  • Astuteas

    You currently seem to have a short memory and very selective morality.

    So what is it you are now saying Cam…

    That Mike Sabin should have just been summarily dismissed and forced out from being a Member of Parliament by the Prime Minister at the very 1st inkling of any possible allegation against him, regardless of whether there was or was not any factual basis or substantive foundation to it, prior to the completion of any investigation and/or whether he had or hadn’t committed any criminal offence or been charged with any criminal offence.

    Using your current rationale then clearly the exact same should have occurred to Judith Collins at the very 1st inkling of any allegation against her and she should have been forced out of being a Member of Parliament, before any investigation was ever completed and/or before she was or wasn’t even charged or proven to be in breech of any act.

    As has been proven with Judith Collins, John Banks and a multitude of other MP’s prior, it is really easy for people to make a multitude of various allegations but until they have been fully investigated, substantiated and/or criminal charges are laid then it is entirely premature to arbitrarily fire someone from being a physical Member of Parliament.

    On the other hand, Cabinet Ministers have additional much higher thresholds to maintain in order to retain the confidence of the Prime Minister and also their individual Ministerial Warrant. In the event of any substantive issues or investigations against a Cabinet Minister the norm is for them to be stood down as a Cabinet Minister but generally still remain a Member of Parliament (eg: Collins & Williamson)

    If any adverse behaviour is subsequently substantiated and proven against Mike Sabin, then that clearly speaks only to Mike’s ethical standards… Not in any way the Prime Minister’s

    Whether you currently personally like it or not Cam, the Prime Minister is however required to follow due process and it would appear as thru that is exactly what he has done in this case.

    Strangely we didn’t see you very loudly proclaiming that the Prime Minister should have immediately forced Judith Collins out of being a Member of Parliament as soon as any as then unsubstantiated allegation was first made against her.
    (She was subsequently only stood down as a Cabinet Minister)

    The problem with applying standards is that they can’t ever be double and in fairness they must always be applied equally to everyone at all times.

    From what I have seen thus far, that is once again entirely what the Prime Minister has done.

    • pixman55

      Sabin Resigned as an MP .he did not ask to take a Short Break He Resigned so the Allegations Must Be very serious .if he Knew he was Innocent he would not have Resigned and would have fronted up to the Media and said the Allegations are False and i intend to prove that..Now Banksy is heading Back into Court Again..after thinking he was going to run for Mayor the Honest John is still fighting the Forgotten Donation issues

      • Astuteas

        Yes, Sabin has now resigned and stated that his personal issues needed to be sorted “out outside of Parliament.” That was entirely Mike’s own personal decision to make. And then you personally go on to magically decide without any actual factual knowledge yourself that the allegations “must be very serious” and that because he has chosen to resign, then he must be guilty. I don’t know for a fact what the allegations are… you don’t know for a fact… and 99.99% of the population don’t know for a fact what they are. Even if you did know (which you don’t) the true facts of any allegations, as yet they have not in any way been proven, admitted or even had the opportunity to be defended. To say that you are premature is an understatement. Everybody in NZ is entitled to due process. EG: Even if you believe your staff member stole from your company… you still have to follow due process and fully investigate the matter to establish the true facts as well as afford them the opportunity of putting their side before making any decisions as to what to do as a consequence. Once again in this case the Prime Minister has responded legally and morally correctly in affording Mike due process. The Prime Minister has taken specific legal advice and his actions are entirely consistent with the due process required, the principals of the Privacy Act and also any Court suppression orders that may or may not be in place.
        Mike Sabin’s personal actions are his own… Mike’s subsequent decision to resign has been his own… and clearly Mike will now be dealing with the consequences of his own personal actions. Mike’s situation is a direct reflection upon Mike… Not the Prime Minister.

  • Curly1952

    So you think Labour might have something else up their sleeve.
    If that is the case where are they hiding genuine positive policy because there isn’t any of that up there.

  • Michael

    Trevor Mallard pleaded guilty to fighting in a public place. When will he be leaving?

  • Luis Cannon

    I personally know a No.2. He’s a saint. Endures physical and verbal abuse almost daily. Still loves his wife but I don’t know how he puts up with it. She also tells lies about him and takes opportunities to put him down in front of family and friends. I have often wondered if this is a problem that many men put up with for the sake of family.

  • pixman55

    Been there and have the Grey hair .my Ex Manipulated the Sysem to get Custody of our Son. i lost Everything but my son never gave up on me. He knew the truth . but i had to pay the price for being a Good dad .i lost Money and the house but gained a massive Debt.i managed to fight and get to spend time with my son but was never able to esablish another relationship due to being Broke.

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