Ex hack “guesses” about data he’s never seen, and this is a story how?

The left-wing and their pals in theMedia party are really getting into this Panama Papers thing.

They are passing their own moral judgements using stolen documents yet again.

But Newshub is pimping one of those lefty twats even though he is just guessing.

A Kiwi journalist at the heart of a huge leak of documents from a Panama-based law firm says some New Zealand names could be dragged through the mud.

The leak of 11.5 million documents – amounting to 2.6 terabytes of data – from Panama-based Mossack Fonseca is considered to be the largest in history.

The so-called Panama Papers reveal the existence of 214,000 foreign trusts and companies set up in more than 200 countries for Mossack Fonseca’s wealthy clients.

More than 11,000 foreign trusts have been set up in New Zealand and opposition parties are accusing the Government of allowing the country to be used as a tax haven.  

Former Wairarapa Times-Age and Evening Post journalist Peter Bale, now head of the Center for Public Integrity that oversaw the journalistic investigation, spoke to The Nation today.

Although he had not looked at the New Zealand data himself, he said he had discussed it with the team of investigative journalists working on the project.

“You can be absolutely certain, I think, or as near to certain that there will be significant numbers of New Zealanders and of New Zealand entities, certainly New Zealand entities, within this data set.”

Due to the time and resources needed to analyse the data, it could take months to produce results, but there was “still much more to come”, he said.

“The history of New Zealand’s position on offshore companies, people registering trusts there from offshore and also things like New Zealand’s relationship with Niue and some of the other places that we know Mossack Fonseca has used, means that you should assume that there is a very strong New Zealand connection.”

So all guesses, all subjective and by the same bunch of wankers who did this sort of thing before.

The problem I have is that the Media party now think nothing about laundering stolen documents. They believe the ends justifies the means. Yet again a criminal hacker has stolen data and is going after people because he doesn’t agree with their world view.

Here’s the thing though…he’s playing with people with vast resources…and a law firm that represents those people. You may be sure that there is a highly paid team of Chinese counter-hackers now working on finding those responsible.

Meanwhile the general public’s eyes glass over with boredom.

The only amusing thing about all of this is watching the left-wing prostrate themselves in prayer hoping John Key is named.

 

– Newshub

 


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  • Second time around

    It took about 10 minutes to find the Icelandic and Maltese prime ministers on the list, 15 to find Putin, 3 hours to find Cameron’s dad. How come it is taking so long to find a NZer? It’s meant to be serious investigative journalism, not a cheap strip tease where each item exposed costs more.

    • biscuit barrel

      The individuals names arent often used , it would usually only the name of a trust or a company.
      Ive heard its 11 million documents, and even if you find a particular company its maze, through various other countries ( this would be where NZ would come in).
      The reason NZ hasnt been looked at in detail the major newspapers who have been in at the start are only interested in newsy stuff for their countries.
      ie they couldnt find anything on Putin, but the names of his cronys were found.

      • Second time around

        Putin’s easy because he will be on everyone’s list, but if Malta and Iceland can be uncovered so quickly, why not NZ? The problem is the positive assertion that NZ (big names) are on the list,made without a shred of evidence. I would be surprised if there were no NZers on the list, but that is not newsworthy because tax evasion and avoidance have both existed ever since taxes were first collected in 1840.

  • Jude

    Hacked information is a big turnoff! All I think of is the drama around Dirty Politics and Kim Dotcons big reveal.
    I think it is pure desperation of MSM to get people to read this nonsense.
    I quite frankly do not give a toss that 99% of tax payers try to avoid tax
    The scandal is really how hackers are becoming wealthy through committing this crime!

  • Bud

    “You can be absolutely certain, I think…”

    Translation: you should unquestioningly believe what I am telling you, even though I am unwilling to commit to my statement.

  • Simon P

    Having money in a tax haven is not illegal. You are entitled to structure your tax affairs according to the law. Different countries have different tax rates. It’s called competition. It is the same reason NZ’s company tax rate is lower than Australian. Another case of the media discovering commerce in action and not liking it.

    • David Moore

      Tax havens are important when you are paying taxes across multiple jurisdictions. Without them it would be difficult to ensure the right tax was paid in the right country.

      The irony being that The Guardian has been at the center of this, and they have hundreds of millions, untaxed, parked in the Cayman Islands!

    • localnews

      I am surprised we are not seeing more companies setting themselves up with an overseas director and an overseas head office. It would seem relatively easy to base yourself in Ireland. Eventually every country will have to have the same tax rate or all companies will be registered in the lowest tax rate country. The grizzling is just beginning.

      • biscuit barrel

        You can have your company registered in wherever you like, just you have to tell the tax office.
        Normally tax is paid where money is earned, so if your business is in NZ thats where the tax is payable, if any, no matter where the head office location.
        Thats where the tricky part comes in, having a way to transfer the income. The old days it was just a series of cheques passed around people sitting at the same table which constituted ‘business reasons’ for moving the money.
        Now you need a more rigourous method involving real business processes.
        The methods mentioned by the panama papers were mostly just a black hole where legit business reasons are ignored.

  • Sally

    The socialist of the world are getting desperate. People are no longer buying their message so they have resorted to other means. Or is it media who have taken ‘journalistic privilege’ too far?
    How come it is only right-wing politicians or those with links to politicians getting named. What about the criminals who have got rich from ill-gotten gains and secreting their money away, why have they not been publicised? Maybe because journalists and socialist are scared of them or is it because there is nothing to gain for exposing criminals.

    • David Moore

      “What about the criminals who have got rich from ill-gotten gains and secreting their money away, why have they not been publicised?”

      They have, Putin and alike, there are hundred of them. The media just are not interested in them, they are too tough to touch and not what they were after, instead they are spinning it to be about ‘the rich’ evading taxes, when there isn’t a scrap of evidence there has been any evasion.

      • biscuit barrel

        They have. Are you sure you have read it all ?
        The mexican drug barons have been looked into in detail.

        What will be interesting is when the full data is realeased to the public and the local IRDs get hold of it and run names and trust through it

        • David Moore

          I think you’ll find the outcome will be exactly nothing. I’d be quite happy to wager on that too.

        • David Moore

          Where did you get your information about ‘the mexican drug barons have been looked into in detail”? There is not one scrap on that, the only Mexican figure is Juan Armando Hinojosa, who is not a drug lord.

  • pisces8284 .

    ex Wairarapa Times Age journo. Enough said

  • Cadwallader

    Doesn’t David Shearer have a trust or two? Is he to be named? I expect with his universe-beating knowledge of finance and business David Cunnliffe will also be very conversant with trusts in many jurisdictions.

    • biscuit barrel

      90% of MPs have trusts. You have fallen into the trap of thinking legit NZ trust means an overseas trust especially in Panama.

      • Cadwallader

        Well no I haven’t actually. Perhaps I ought to have expressed things differently? Where did you get the 90% figure from? I expected it to be greater to accord with the general population.

        • biscuit barrel

          “According to Parliament’s pecuniary interests register, 76 MPs – nearly two-thirds of all MPs – hold a beneficial interest in a trust or serve as a trustee” Stuff

  • Forrest Ranger

    What the heck is the Centre for Public Integrity? More to the point what does it do and who pays for it to exist?

  • kayaker

    I hope there’s enough eggs around when the time comes to decorate the faces of these individual and collective lynch mobs.

  • johnnyB

    Another complete diversion that will keep the Left preoccupied for months chasing shadows that don’t exist. Their incapability to understand what is important to the electorate is astounding (assisted by the media). Mike Williams started it in 2008 by parking himself in Australia trying to find dirt on Key at a critical time of the election and it has rolled on from there climaxing with the Dot Com non revelations. Winston does the conspiracy stuff so much better and will increase his vote by 2% but only by rearranging the available conspiracy nut population back from the Labour / Greens.

    • biscuit barrel

      How long have you been reading Whaleoil ?
      Its got plenty of dirt on labour and the greens, because thats what readers here want.

      • willtin

        That’s a generalisation and not necessarily true. Speaking for myself, I come here to learn the real news and communicate my own thoughts.

  • Davey

    …”journalist Peter Bale, now head of the Center for Public Integrity”… There’s a classic oxymoron.

    • biscuit barrel

      “The Center for Public Integrity was founded in 1989 by Charles Lewis. We are one of the country’s oldest and largest nonpartisan, nonprofit investigative news organizations.”
      So its a news organisation, maybe a bit like the ‘peace groups’ we used to hear about in the 70s and 80s.
      Its obviously a left wing front group.
      A bit like our local Taxpayers Union, a right wing front group dedicated to generating news storys for a right wing view.

  • earthyundertones

    But, but, BUT (Jeez, this thing has me riled) If we ignore the fact that the data was stolen, if we ignore the fact that there are many perfectly legitimate reasons for a trust, ignore that no actual illegal activity has been uncovered (yet), the massive invasion of privacy, ignore that that this may just be a plot to bring down Putin… Ignore all of this. From a NZ perspective the Mossak Fonseca data, which is freely available for any of our “journalists” (oh dear God) to search, actually only seems to show four, FOUR New Zealand based trusts that they have registered. We are not a Tax Haven, we have little strategic benefit, we are not the Cayman Islands… we are a dot, an insignificant afterthought.

    • biscuit barrel

      Why has Cameron been explaining all week ?

      NZ is only mentioned because we are seen as a legit country but in reality the IRD has almost no information about the backers behind overseas trusts, and the real trouble is that its used for criminal gangs ( which has come up previously, like arms sellers)

      Wait and see what NZ details come up as its usually just a name of a trust not the principals behind it. And those trusts lead to trusts in other countrys and so on. A lot of the data is just emails so that i so only way to link with another country, doesnt mention anybodys name at all.
      For Camerons father, the pommie press have been looking deep into his affairs for some time as his business was centered in Channel Is for ‘tax reasons’
      For rich individuals it may be messy to have your name flung around but it doesnt constitute proof, for politicians its a different story.

      • Steve kay

        So having the names of the trust, the trustee, and full books of all funds and assets moving through said trust is not enough info? How would you suggest improving on the status quo?

        • biscuit barrel

          A trust which only names its beneficiaries as another foreign trust in another location doesnt tell us anything. Its not same as just using kiwis names of dummies who just sign the paper work.
          Full books and paper work of all funds ?
          be interesting if that happens and is not just a smokescreen.

          • Steve kay

            They have the trustees name. They also give full disclosure to anyone we have a treaty with upon request, and automatically disclose all trust details to Australia currently.

            You should watch question time. Pick any question in the last week and that’ll be the response. It’s like groundhog day, but informative all the same.

          • Steve kay

            All trusts have to keep records yet only have to provide these if a request is made by another jurisdiction (excluding Australia). Twenty jurisdictions to date have made requests, and they were fulfilled. Nothing to see here.

      • earthyundertones

        Well you don’t really need to wait and see what NZ details there are, because as I have said the info is reasonably freely available – complete with graphics. But I guess it gets more people riled up to suggest that there is more to see (it works for Winston’s fans). As far as Cameron is concerned, remove the Westminster Inquisition and you have a situation where he has actually not done anything wrong. He has inherited some money from a trust run by his father… who also it seems has done nothing wrong. Unless “Guilty by association with the implied possible sins of the father.” is now a thing.

        • biscuit barrel

          I didnt know the claims about Camerons father because I read the daily mail, not the Guardian so i looked it up

          http://www.theguardian.com/news/2016/apr/04/panama-papers-david-cameron-father-tax-bahama

          Its clear that although Blairmore was based in the Bahamas, and had the appearance of having a majority of its directors there doing the work of running the business, the company officers were nunces and the decisions were made in the UK,this arrangement was to avoid UK tax – which they seemed to have not paid a penny.
          “The clear intention for Blairmore was to avoid becoming UK tax resident and the test for this, even in 2006, is the location of the central management and control.”

          It seems that now Blairmore has moved to Ireland- as these offshore tax havens got ‘too hot’.

          But back to the main point surely tax should be paid where its earned, like all the ordinary people and business owners do.

  • OneTrack

    Surely Nicky Hagar has already been through all the documents looking for any mention of John Key and any National party politicians. That he hasn’t been making wide announcements is very telling – couldn’t find anything Nick?

    • IKIDUNOT

      Or….he might be working on his next book to ‘reveal all about Panama and Key’ to be published just a few weeks before the next elections….

      • Michelle

        l had the same thought Hagar will write a book and not worry about the truth ready to hit the book stores about 6 weeks out from the election to try and derail yet another election
        Democracy doesn’t mean a thing to these people

        • biscuit barrel

          Democracy says being able to speak and write as you see fit .
          Do you believe in democracy only when those who disagree arent heard from?
          An election campaign isnt just a politicians only sideshow. We got rid of crazy rules bought in by labour to ‘manage’ outside groups at election time. Do you want some rules bought back

          • Annoyed

            Democracy also requires freedom and accuracy of information. It requires a level of honesty from “journalists” as they are supposed to have integrity and we are supposed to be able to trust what they are saying without having to investigate ourselves.

            Labour & the Greens have both tried to dictate who John Key can and cannot talk to. There’s been a massive push from the left to shut down Cam’s voice, in fact, all of our voices. This is anti-democratic. Hager used the veil of journalism and the public interest to do a massive hit job at the last election, with the sole purpose of shutting down political discourse on the right. He even admitted to basically blackmailing other journalists into not dealing with right wing people.

            I’m sorry, but you aren’t going to change any of our minds that these people don’t care about democracy. As for your assertion about us only caring about people we agree with. I don’t think I’ve ever read on here any attempts to shut down discourse on the left. People should be punished for criminal activity but discourse should never be stopped. None of the people you replied to even remotely suggested stopping Hager from releasing his books. We just all agree that he has no integrity and his books are selective and speculative.

  • IKIDUNOT

    How the heck can the ‘Centre for Public Integrity’ go hand in hand with journalist. Being a bottom feeder re the trustworthiness stakes journos obviously are very courageous (or just plain mad) to go by the name of ‘Centre for Public Integrity’

  • XCIA

    I wonder what the “investigative” shrills will do if they encounter accounts for their left leaning pals. Will they bite the hand that feeds them or bury the data and quietly pass it over in the hope that it is not uncovered by proper investigators.

  • Herbert Charles

    Flakey story by Newshub, written by flakes, whats the next story? Chemtrails Linked to John Key? (I shouldnt speak too soon or give them ideas for news stories, so ill stop now)

  • Keanne Lawrence

    It is becoming a natural reaction when somebody is tagged a journalist in the media to move on or hit the remote to find some reality. Interesting too that so much embellishment had to be wadded through before it was revealed “he had not looked at the New Zealand data himself”.

  • Graeme

    Have the media forgotten which party passed the law which allowed this situation.

  • Miss Phit

    NZ MSM adopting the “News of the World Model” for their journalistic integrity.

    Edit to add – Maybe the title journalist is now being attributed to anyone who does anything dodgy as it gives them a level of protection from prosecution.

  • rustyjohn58

    Once again the left and the compliment lazy media are barking up the wrong tree. The left will froth at the mouth a bit about that nasty John Key and his rich mates. The right just shrug as they mostly understand that any sensible person will do whatever they legally can to keep their hard earned money out of the hands of bureaucrats and politicians. The centre just don’t care they are too busy trying to better themselves and join the rich.

  • R&BAvenger

    It’s seems like ‘the moment of truth’ all over again. Anyone of high net worth will take sensible precautions to minimise their tax exposure. As long as it’s all legal then there’s no problem.

  • Annoyed

    Why do they keep calling the info leaked? It was stolen. It was a massive case of industrial espionage and everyone involved should be arrested.

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