Here’s a rare admission (take note!): I was wrong

Supplied via Newshub

Supplied via Newshub

I predicted the replacement “billboard” would be gone by the end of this weekend.  (I guess it still could…).  But something else has happened now:

An Auckland church billboard made famous for its depiction of US politician Donald Trump is in the headlines again as the victim of an Islamic hate act.

The billboard depicting the Republican front-runner for US president – or a cartoon of his likeness – was originally erected outside The Community of Saint Luke church in Remuera last month, where he criticises a crucified Jesus for being a “loser”.

It was stolen just before Easter, but was resurrected after several days.

However, it seems the billboard has proved too much temptation for an anti-Islamic vandal, who has pasted over Trump’s original words with the message “Islam hates us”.

St Luke’s minister Glynn Cardy says the defacement is sobering.

“It seems in the wider Auckland community that there are Christians who believe Islam does hate Christianity,” he said.

“Further, they think this sentiment is shared by Donald Trump.”

Mr Cardy said St Luke’s has run a programme for many years to encourage understanding between different world faiths.

“We know, from personal experience, that Islam does not hate us.”

Right.

Explain ISIS, Paris, Brussels, Sweden, Holland and Germany then please. Just for starters.

Local MP David Seymour says while it’s not a surprise, it is disappointing.

He says the vandals have violated the Church’s freedom of speech and private property, two things any Western society should stand for.

Head of the Islamic studies research unit at the University of Auckland, Zain Ali, said he thought the comments on the billboard were misinformed hate speech.

“It’s not reflective of how New Zealand people think. There are questions, difficult questions, but there’s no feeling that Islam hates us,” Dr Ali said.

“Kiwi muslims don’t see themselves as being separate from the rest of New Zealand.”

He said it was unclear if the message was supposed to be about the western world, or Trump supporters, or New Zealanders.

It’s a tricky mess, that’s for sure.

 

– Newshub, NZ Herald

 


THANK YOU for being a subscriber. Because of you Whaleoil is going from strength to strength. It is a little known fact that Whaleoil subscribers are better in bed, good looking and highly intelligent. Sometimes all at once! Please Click Here Now to subscribe to an ad-free Whaleoil.

Tagged:
  • Ben

    I hAve a message for Zain Ali, Cardy and Seymour; go and set up this church in Pakistan or Syria and see how long you last. If you survive a month I will donate $1000 to any charity you wish. Personally I think each of you in your own ways are misguided idiots.

    • Gaharis

      I don’t quite see from the comments attributed to David Seymour that he said anything wrong. Just because Pakistan and Syria don’t respect freedom of speech and private property rights is surely no reason for New Zealanders to act in the same way is it?

      • kereru

        It’s pretty mild compared with Glynn Cardy’s other unfunny efforts at offending Christ. And it’s true as well, which is more than you can say for Mr Cardy and his ‘look at me’ billboards.

        That said, nobody is defending the daubing or the person who did it. But if you put up an offensive billboard, it is almost inevitable that it will attract unwanted attention. Please don’t misunderstand – in Pakistan you would be slaughtered. No Western niceties like freedom of speech there.

    • duve

      Better still, they should pursue their message of peace and understanding by setting up their church in Pakistan or Syria with a sign “Jesus loves us all, Christians and Muslims alike” and see how that fares. Or set one up on a billboard in Mt Roskill, for that matter.

    • kereru

      Actually, try to set up a church in any Islamic nation and see how much encouragement you get. People don’t seem to realise that even owning a Bible is illegal in 52 nations of the world, both Communist and Islamic.

  • XCIA

    Can anyone say this is not a tawdry attempt at self promotion?

  • Eddie

    Seymour is totaly right and the vandals deserve to be prosecuted. The church has the right to free speech and to ridicule who they choose with their property – just like Wicked Capmers and Charlie Hebdo.

    • kereru

      The ‘church’ has all kinds of secular rights but you’d expect a man who sees himself as a Christian minister would have more respect for the faith he represents. If he’s going to make a habit of putting up placards which make a mockery of the God he’s supposedly representing – then he’s no better than a vandal. But if I may say so, it is more likely that God would forgive a repentant vandal than a false shepherd leading his flock astray.

  • Orange

    I think they are universalists or panentheists – “god is growing with his own consciousness and all roads lead to rome or the heart or somewhere.” No ultimate problem of sin meaning no need of an ultimate saviour meaning no understanding of comparative religion apart from redefining each religion to mean whatever they want. Well all Cardy has done is reinvent his own god in his own image. He has done nothing for inter-faith relations and does a disservice to the universal need for the pursuit of truth.

  • sandalwood789

    “Mr Cardy said St Luke’s has run a programme for many years to encourage understanding between different world faiths.”

    Has that program spent even a *minute* looking at the Islamic texts (the Koran, hadith and Sira)? If they had, they would have found that those texts contain more Jew-hatred than “Mein Kampf” –
    http://www.cspipublishing.com/statistical/

    Not only that, but the Koran has over 500 verses of hate towards non-Muslims and over 100 verses calling on Muslims to wage war against non-Muslims.

    Has it looked at the *history* of Islam (an estimated 270 million (and counting) killed by Muslims?

    If they had, they wouldn’t be making such ridiculous statements as “Islam does not hate us.” *Honestly*……. (bangs head against wall……)

    • J Ryan

      Read “The Truth about Muhammad”, Robert Spencer. Muhammad was simply a charismatic leader and very talented in warfare. Other than that he was nothing special. His revelations that came to him from Allah, God were timely to enhance his control. He dominated through sheer violence and manipulation. Fool on the gullible that believe his teachings in this day and age. But they do and so we have this problem of programmed idiots that want to dominate us.

      • kereru

        Allah is his personal name as well as the word for ‘god’ in Arabic. The God of the Bible is not called Allah, neither are any of His attributes the same – in fact they are polar opposites. So who or what is the driving force behind Allah? A hint: Mohammed first thought the voices he heard came from ‘djinn’ and ran out of his cave in terror. A great pity for humanity that he was later persuaded otherwise.

        • J Ryan

          Yes agree.

  • Orca

    It looks like David Seymour has nailed his colours to the cross. He votes for an increase in the refugee quota, and only says boo when someone makes a random, minor, anti-islamic joke.

  • XCIA

    ““It seems in the wider Auckland community that there are Christians who believe Islam does hate Christianity,” he said.” Where is the proof that Christians did this?? Why could it not be the resident Muslims stirring it along for the benefit of the imported Imams to show how hard they are done by? Don’t forget that these people are coming here to allegedly sort out perceived problems.

    • kereru

      Absolutely agree with you. It would be totally out of character for Christians to do such a thing, but I suspect Mr Cardy wouldn’t know a real Christian if he fell over one.

      • WeaselKiss

        Evening kereru, may I be a bit more harsh?
        I suspect that if MR Cardy (intentional sarc) was to meet a real Christian he would make a show, or put on a front of being wary/shocked/distressed etc.
        I wouldn’t have believed my eyes if I hadn’t seen it but I seen it!

        • kereru

          Goodness, well that would have to mean he sees Christ in the real Christian and has to try to cover himself. Very interesting.

    • Orange

      I wonder how many pastors have been calling him and telling him to stop being a wally. Probably quite a few and thats the reason he’s paranoid about Christians now.

    • kereru

      Have you gone into the St Luke’s website and clicked on the sermons page? Here’s the latest one, preached yesterday, entitled Easter: A Pointless Parable. And a second, for Easter Sunday – When Jesus Was Girl.

      Words fail me.

      http://www.stlukes.org.nz/sermon/Easter-pointless-parable

      http://www.stlukes.org.nz/sermon/easter-sunday-when-jesus-was-girl%E2%80%A6-resurrection-story-whangara

      • XCIA

        Well, if that’s what passes for Christian teaching these days, I’m glad I stopped attending when I left Belfast.

        • kereru

          Believe me, it is nothing like Christian teaching – the man is so out on a limb as to lose all credibility. I wouldn’t want to be in his shoes when he meets his Maker and has to account for himself and his mocking fantasies. And I’m trying to put it as politely as I can.

      • Dan

        Read the second one and counted two heresys in the first three sentences.

      • LesleyNZ

        Thanks for these links kereru. When I read both sermons I realised even more what the Bible verses mean in Matthew 7:21-23 (NIV)
        True and False Disciples
        21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ This man is leading the St Luke’s church members and greater community astray. I guess this billboard is to be expected because he himself does not know the true meaning of the Christian message at Easter. (Same can be said for Christmas). His two sermons are full of blasphemy. Saddest thing of all Glynn Cardy has a big audience yet no mention of the words sin, God’s plan of salvation and redemption and why Jesus Christ died upon the cross. (I know these words are not popular these days). No reference to the Bible at all or Bible verses that tell the Easter message. Yesterday my pastor preached about how because of Jesus dying on the cross to pay the penalty for our sins – sin is no longer on us if we believe in Jesus. Sin is still in us as we are mere mortals and we still sin – but it is no longer upon us. The slate has been wiped clean. The penalty has been paid for us. The Easter message has nothing to do with “points” and “Whalerider”. All I can do is pray that God will change the hearts of those who work against Him in such a way as what I have just read in these sermons. The good people of St Luke’s are being lead astray and given a false hope.

        Eternity is forever – life on earth is but a vapour.

  • rua kenana

    Seems like St Luke’s minister Glynn Cardy thinks it great to encourage hatred of Trump, who as far as I know hasn’t killed anyone yet, but Muslims, who have killed untold millions over the centuries and are continuing to do so, are somehow miraculously exempted (forgiven?) by him.

    • WeaselKiss

      My first thought was that Rev’d Cardy (he is a rev? maybe I should just call him Mr Cardy) is simply toe-ing the company line.
      By that I mean as far as I know many of the mainstream denominations are sympathetic to the concept of (eventually…) joining up with the Church of Rome and others to form what will eventually be one church for the whole world. It could all be the fodder of conspiracy people….but funny that this very same thing was foretold quite few years ago, in the odd book or two, you know, like ages ago.

  • J Ryan

    Dr Ali is aware from years of European Muslim immigration to just smooth talk the gullible West. Eventually when the mass reach the critical point confidence is gained amongst the radicals. They will dominate the Mosques and replicate what we are witnessing now in Europe. Dr Ali won’t resist them and even maybe silently fell pleased his beloved Mohammad has penetrated another Western country. The religion should be classified as a dangerous cult that is not in the best interests of our society. And to hell with trade. Rather be poor and free than be under their domination.

  • Nesher

    Neither the Church nor Islam should be involved in politics. However the Left have different rules: http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/apr/08/bernie-sanders-vatican-visit-pope-francis

  • RG52

    According to Dr Ali “Kiwi muslims don’t see themselves as being separate from the rest of New Zealand.” Does that include the ones who hid their wives and daughters by putting black rubbish bags over their heads with just slots for their eyes? Looks to me that they see themselves as being very separate from the rest of New Zealand.
    Can the wording be “hate speech” and correct at the same time?

    • kereru

      It’s also ‘sinister’ according to the Harold. If they think that’s sinister they must be wet behind the ears. .

  • willtin

    “St Luke’s minister Glynn Cardy says the defacement is sobering.”
    Bad choice of language by the minister?

    • kereru

      Bad choice of minister. It’s fine to mock Jesus on the cross by bringing Trump into what is the most holy season in the Christian faith, but once somebody daubs a verifiable truth that doesn’t fit with his namby-pamby unBiblical rhetoric, he gets all upset about his interfaith efforts being compromised. If the message had been ‘Muslims hate us’ he might have had a point. But Islam definitely fits the bill. I’d like to ask Mr Cardy where in the Bible can he find a mandate for ‘interfaith’ services and syncretism with other religions.

      • KatB

        I thought the same as you about the sign Islam hates us, I too thought the Minister would’ve had a point if the sign said Muslims hate us. I think with the teachings of Islam, the sign is pretty much correct.

        • kereru

          KatB, my curiosity got the better of me and I had the misfortune of looking up St Luke’s website and clicked on ‘sermons’. I’ve given the links in my post below the photo of the Pope in reply to XCIA.

          That I feel sorry for his congregation is probably the most measured comment I can make.

          • KatB

            I think I can see where he comes from?? but my head hurts. I’m not sure if his congregation would all be on the same page because his sermons certainly are not straight to the point or easily followed. Very new age. You sure wouldn’t want to be short on sleep or I fear you may be sleeping through those sermons or thinking you are operating in a parallel universe.

          • kereru

            If his congregation had any discernment they’d simply walk out and leave him to warble on incoherently to himself. I can’t see that there’s anything to learn from them, or that they’d be of any benefit to his congregation whatsoever. Perhaps he is suffering from some kind of psychosis?

          • KatB

            I was wondering the same thing about some sort of a disorder on his behalf. I would be fearful the congregation would start to have varied ideas on Christ’s teachings because of this Minister’s odd way of putting the message across. People might start becoming equally as incoherent with their own beliefs. As it is, people try to put their own spin on Christianity to justify their actions, without having a Minister like this to confuse things more.

          • kereru

            Though he quotes Bible texts I can’t detect anything vaguely Christian about his teaching. It certainly isn’t Biblical. I’d imagine he thinks of himself as ‘alternative’, but he is leading his flock astray and will be called to account for it by God. Anyone who can spout such drivel is nothing more than a hireling.

  • andrewo

    You’ll find out just how much Muslims hate Christians when they finally get the upper hand in Europe.

    It won’t be pretty.

    • kereru

      You don’t need to wait till then – millions are suffering persecution in all Islamic and Communist nations today. According to agencies working with them, in 2010, the last time a count was undertaken, approximately 164,000 died in captivity. It is a fact that the persecution of Christians today is unprecedented. More have been persecuted in the last 50 years than in the last 20 centuries. And nations like NZ are expected to give sanctuary to Muslims rather than Christians.

  • Effluent

    I wonder if the Rev Cardy (by the way, which church answers for ordaining him?) would like to see how he gets on with preaching the Christian faith in the Muslim parts of the middle east.

    When he has done so, if he survives, he can return and tell us how much the Islamic world loves Christianity.

    The man is simply deluded.

  • LesleyNZ

    St Luke’s minister Glynn Cardy needs to get himself a copy of the Koran and discover the truth about Islam. (And he needs to get himself a copy of the Bible to learn about the Christian religion). He is so ignorant and not fit to be a minister representing the Christian religion. Time that he learnt the 10 Commandments and what they mean.

    • kereru

      Lesley, just go into the St Luke’s website and click on Sermons. I’ve posted the links below, but look at what he preached yesterday and on Easter Sunday. I have heard some weird sermons but never anything as appalling as this.

39%