Whaleoil General Debate

keep-calm-and-don-t-shoot-the-messenger-3Morning everyone, and welcome to Whaleoil’s daily General Debate post (another one called Backchat will start at 6pm). To participate you’ll need to register a free Disqus account.

There are some rules, and if there is one thing about Whaleoil that you need to know is that these rules are dispassionately and strictly enforced.

 


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  • Cadwallader

    I see this morning Little Angry seeks a commission of inquiry into the “Panama papers” and whether or not NZ is a tax haven. He’s an idiot!
    We know that offshore parties set-up trusts in NZ. We know that it benefits the offshore parties to do so. We know that it is not unlawful.We know that the practice gives NZ a net benefit. We know that the NZ tax base is not at issue here. We know that the media wants to connect the above practice to JK. We know that the media will wind-up shooting itself in the foot in its efforts to use the Papers to attack the government. There you have it I have completed the inquiry with minimal effort and costs!

    • ChrisM

      Ooh look……a car…….woof woof woof grrrrr arf arf grrrr

    • Aucky

      Espiner asked the PM straight up this morning whether he had an offshore trust. Wouldn’t the media just love to nail that on him? Espiner would maybe find more fruitful ground by asking the same question of current and past Labour MPs/UN employees.

      • Cadwallader

        I recall David Shearer being open and truthful when saying much of his income he’d received at the UN was retained overseas. I don’t know whether the $$$ were in trusts or otherwise held. But, good luck to him!

        • What they don’t seem to understand is that you don’t need a trust to “hide” money overseas. It is all about “hiding” it somewhere safe.

      • Disinfectant

        He should ask Andrew Little the same question.

      • Second time around

        Espiner annoyed me. He was deaf to Key explaining that it is not the existence of offshore trusts but their dishonest use that is (should be?) the issue. Espiner got on a high horse to ask Key if he thought it was moral to use offshore trusts. “Morals” leaves me stone cold because it is entirely in the eyes and bounds of hypocrisy of the beholder, with no objective measure.

        • dumbshit

          John should have asked if Espiner was party to one.

    • Richard

      Meanwhile, the PM has initiated his own investigation into the issue.

      One more deflation for the haters.

    • sarahmw

      There is an article in The Washington Post this morning with no mention of NZ. So nz media have made a story that isn’t really there. Funny that. I would have thought if NZ was at the forefront it would have been mentioned.

    • I see Stuff reports Labour as accusing Key of being “far too cagey” for saying he won’t release his tax returns.

      My response to someone asking me to release my tax returns would be “get stuffed”. (and I got nothing to hide apart from having to figure out the mess that having to be on ACC for 2 months has done to my tax return)

      • Cadwallader

        I agree. The msm is desperate to paint JK as a player in off-shore tax dodginess. There’s nothing dodgy to see. Moving funds from jurisdiction to jurisdiction is a standard and understandable practice. JK isn’t being cagey, rather he is rightfully protecting his privacy. The problem is that such is the intense desire of Labour and the msm to paint a picture they’ve not bothered to grasp the few facts which pertain to this. This speaks of laziness, stupidity and malevolence.

  • Kiwiracer

    The left really are delusional, when the last Roy Morgan poll came out and showed a tenuous Labour/Greens/NZ First lead the left leaning blogosphere were wetting themselves and handing out possible cabinet positions and pontificating what Winston’s demands might be and that the coalition is a “government in waiting’.
    After yesterday’s poll and National’s good showing it was ‘they must have only polled people over 65 who live in Remuera’.

    • dumbshit

      If they polled only labour members in parliament, he may well have not even reached 7%!

    • Woody

      “they must have only polled people over 65 who live in Remuera”
      It must be a fact, I can verify that I wasn’t polled and I don’t live in Remuera.

  • Whafe

    What is that saying “All the chooks coming home to roost”?
    It is rather amusing to see Little Angry sliding down the pole even more with last nights poll results… It illustrates perfectly the fact that NZ Labour are done and dusted, are no longer relevant in the greater scheme of things… At times it could well be said that National sit on the spectrum exactly where Labour sat when in power.
    Is National really Labour Light?
    One thing that is so very clear, once again NZ has no real opposition party, we urgently need strong opposition… At present it is as weak as rice paper

    • MaryLou

      Opposition preferably on the right. Nationals got the centre left covered.

      • Whafe

        Is there any actual right leaning parties in the ether?
        Don’t get the impression there is at all

        • Disinfectant

          It is hard being on the right as ones inclination is not give away someone else’s money.
          People want promises of money. Socialists can never lose if they make sure everyone becomes a beneficiary. That’s what Helen Clark did by expanding welfare in “Working for Families”.
          The one sure way to change the system is to bankrupt it. But then that leaves a sorry mess.

        • Sally

          That is a problem for the right wing voter. Where do the 4% Conservative voters and the more right wing National voters go? David Seymour has not built the Act Party vote, still languishing in the 1%. There are only small sound bite from Seymour, he needs to get serious and grow up. At the time I thought he made a sound move turning down a chance of a portfolio so he could concentrate on the Party but that is not happening. If he had taken the portfolio he would have had something to get his teeth into and mixed more with the top table.

          • MarcWills

            That’s right Sally. At present all I see from David Seymour is him acting like a juvenile in Question Time, and asking smart-alec supplementary questions. David,we expect more from you if you want our support. Stop sitting back and resting on your achievements to date, get in there developing policies that people can support you with, and resist sounding like a young Labour self entitled grizzle guts. You are better than this, but appear to have lost your way this year. Many party votes are at risk over the whole country if you carry on this way, so please listen, learn, and change.

          • kereru

            Too busy commenting on stupid church billboards and such trivia.

          • IKIDUNOT

            At first glance this seems to make sense, however, the Maori and United Future parties didn’t really benefit from being party of the government, did they. Maybe on the longer term (closer to the election) Seymour will build a more prominent profile….you would think there is growing potential for Act

  • Justme

    Reading the comments last night on the other websites, and it got me wondering. The left supporters continue to claim that the polls are rigged, they can’t be true because they personally weren’t asked, etc.
    And it got me wondering. On Whaleoil, we believe we are logical and astute in our commenting. But would we be the same as the left, if National were on 20%. Winners are grinners as they say.
    I suspect (hope) the answer might be one of, astuteness and logical analysis of why we were doing poorly and seeking to correct that, rather than blaming the polls.

    • Has been a bad few days for the left what with the rigged pole and Banksie getting his warrant back.

      • Nige.

        Bad few days? Every days a bad day for the hard left. The planet is about to explode, the capitalists are about to enslave the entire population, every river on earth is dirty, all the worlds children are in bare feet…..

        • Sally

          All run by evil capitalist who won’t share their money.

    • Nige.

      Politics is a game and national are playing it well at the moment.

      or Labour are playing it terribly….

      • R&BAvenger

        Labour are playing it to the level of their collective competency.

    • R&BAvenger

      Lefty’s always blame the polls, same in the UK. hence the shock, horror, ‘the polls are rigged’ comments when they don’t fit the outlook of the tin foil hat brigade.

  • Curly1952

    Thought I would have a look at the Auckland morning newspaper to see what they said about the latest poll results. Had to go nearly to the bottom of the home page to see a headline “Key still popular despite flag defeat”Didn’t bother reading the rest of the article suffice to say if the polls had gone the other way the leading headline for the next day or so would be about the demise of National. Paul Little for one should take notice of the general public feeling instead of saying that the public don’t understand the media

    • Crowgirl

      I couldn’t find it on the front page of TVNZ’s site either this morning and it was their poll. Had to google it to find it. Instead TVNZ thinks we need coverage of Matty McLean leaving his job. Go figure.

      • Mind you, that web site is a dog’s breakfast

        • Crowgirl

          Indeed, but I scrolled right down the “all news” section. The story isn’t in the top 5-10 stories but Matty McLean is, and the lead story is how migrants trying to climb over border fences to illegally enter Macedonia are being tear gassed for their trouble. I would have thought the poll would be of more interest to a NZ audience.

        • pisces8284 .

          Trying to view a video on their website is a marathon of clicking, by the time I get to the last one I’ve lost interest

      • Aucky

        TV One will bury this as quickly as possible. It just doesn’t meet with editorial policies. Radio NZ will be going through the same anguish and John Campbell will be rejigging tonight’s programme as of now.

        Very much a case of now you see it, now you don’t.

    • KGB

      Not in the publics interest?

    • R&BAvenger

      How predictable was that headline.
      It was no defeat for Key. He stated his intention to organise a referendum on the flag. That intention was brought to action via parliament. There was debate, there was a 2 stage referendum and the majority who voted chose to keep the current one.

      • johnandali

        Yes, but he’s got a couple of other problems that I for one am not happy with.

        1. Why are we importing Syrian Muslim refugees when there are plenty of Syrian Christian refugees?

        2. Why is McCully fawning to the Palestinian side of the Middle-East problem?

        Is the answer to both questions the same one? Our representation in the UN Security Council and secondly Helen Clark’s aspirations to become Secretary General.

        And those are the main doubts I have about John Key’s leadership.

  • Aucky

    Is Little’s personal support at 7% the lowest ever for a Labour leader? I can’t recall Cunliffe plumbing those depths.

    • Richard

      If Cunliffe was plumbing those depths, this makes Little a drain layer.

      • Whafe

        Coffee on keyboard…. LMAO

    • KGB

      Wasn’t Cunnliffe Mr 8%?

    • Nige.

      I think its time that the news media stopped going to him for comment.

      Whats the relevance?

  • KGB

    I am pleased to hear the owner of the Pitbull that savaged a 7 year old child has ordered the dog destroyed.
    We will see renewed calls to ban breeds and many stories in their defence. “It’s the owners fault not the dog.”
    Though I may agree to a point there is no denying that it is one ‘type of dog’ that is usually responsible for these vicious attacks. I am a dog lover but I would like to see them outlawed.
    Time and time again we hear “Its great with kids, it’s never bitten anyone before.”
    Sure there are many nasty ankle bitting, finger nipping, hand-bag dogs. When did a miniature poodle last inflict wounds requiring 100 stitches to a child’s face?
    When did a much larger Alsatian last inflict this type of injury? There has been Rottweiler attacks, but when did they last appear in head-lines?
    It is time to stop defending the breeds that are overwhelmingly responsible for most attacks. There is no way we can police dog licensing every owner, even if it is always ‘the owners fault.’
    They are always lovely loyal family dogs until … they’re not.

    • Disinfectant

      Most Pitbull owners have them as a public display of their own personality.
      That is; “Look at me and my tough dog, and make sure you don’t mess with me”

      • Cadwallader

        Picture a dog-collar and a leash. Listen for some growling. Picture Little Angry on one end of the leash. Picture a pit bull on the other end. Are they indistinguishable?

        • Davo42

          I would picture Angry Andy as more of a yappy Chihuahua.

      • kereru

        I remember going to a wreckers yard in Otahuhu to find a car part Mr K was looking for, and getting the chills when three pitbulls roaming in their enclosure spotted us on the road and rushed up clawing at the netting, snarling and barking. Three muscular killers with a blood lust – or at least that’s what they seemed to me. Yeah yeah it’s the owners, and they certainly go out of their way to brutalise them, but they were bred for dog fighting and have no place in a family home, or even in the country.

    • Usaywot

      I agree with you but the problem is that pit bulls have now interbred with many other breeds bringing their nasty characteristics to the new litters. I remember the debate about allowing them into NZ with a lot of “please don’t” requests. Some idiot MP, can’t remember his name, thought allowing them in was a good idea. Hope he’s pleased with himself.

    • kereru

      Totally agree, but over the years pitbulls have been interbred with other unpredicatable breeds so how could these also be included. Would it depend upon percentages of pitbull in a mixed breed? It’s to our shame that this problem was not dealt with when vicious dogs were first introduced to NZ.

      • KGB

        Fair our not I tar them with the same brush. Unpredictable.
        In my experience different breeds have different traits, and varying degrees of intelligence.
        A friend was frustrated with her slow learning almost untrainable Dalmation. When I suggested she should give the dog a break because it was just dumb, she was horrified.
        Pitbulls, Staffies, and like don’t represent in the service industry. They are not guard dogs or seeing eye dogs because they are not trainable to the high standards and discipline required. They may be smarter than a poodle but they’re more cunning than intelligent.
        Why would an apartment dweller want a sheepdog? Why would a security guard want a Jack Russell? And unless you hunt, why would you want a killer?

        • HR

          Pitbulls are used extensively as service animals (mainly in America) because of their intelligence and high degree of trainability.

          • kereru

            From what I can gather, their suitability has not been without controversy.

          • HR

            Agreed. I was not defending or promoting the breed, just pointing out that they are used as service animals.

    • HR

      I’m pleased to hear that the dog will be destroyed. I thought that banning the breed would be good too, but it may be ineffectual.

      http://www.aspca.org/about-us/aspca-policy-and-position-statements/position-statement-pit-bulls

      • johnandali

        Oh. I thought that it might be appropriate if the dog’s owner was also going to be destroyed. They were both equally responsible for the terrible attack.

  • JustanObserver

    I had another uncontrolled outburst at my 65″ TV last night while watching ‘Views-Hub’ . . .
    The piece about how Britts were demanding the resignation of Cameron because he was caught up in the ‘Panama Papers’ was straight out of Kim Jong Il’s media propaganda room.
    .
    some 100,000 have signed a petition (so 0.0015% of the population) calling for his resignation.
    Angry protests have called for his resignation (“We Say No … Cameron Must Go” from the Nationalist Socialist Front, “Get the Tories Out” from the Socialist Workers) all aided & abetted by a willing and active media.
    Jeremy Corbyn and Edward Snowden being called on for authoritativecomment . . .
    .
    The cat went running, and the wife thought I’d lost it again !

    • R&BAvenger

      Always make sure that you don’t have anything in your hands. Don’t want to damage that telly ;-)
      I said to my other half, he’s done nothing wrong. I restrained myself from commenting on the protesting rabble and just kept my thoughts to myself. I save that sort of comment for WOBH.

    • Mav E Rick

      The riff raff rabble protesting, looked very similar to our usual rent a crowd here in NZ of Minto, Bradford & co. Didn’t notice too many “run of the mill” Btitts in the rabble group. News Hub of course will talk it up!

    • Nige.

      It was disgusting. It had no content and just showed a bunch of kids shouting over and over and over. Who do they think they are kidding?

  • kereru

    I hate to raise this subject again, but it seems the UK Equalities Chief who coined the term ‘Islamophobia’ is belatedly waking up to the truth – Muslims won’t integrate and he should have known better. It’s a sobering read.

    The former head of Britain’s Equalities and Human Rights Commission (EHRC), Trevor Phillips, has admitted he “got almost everything wrong” on Muslim immigration in a damning new report on integration, segregation, and how the followers of Islam are creating “nations within nations” in the West. “It’s not as though we couldn’t have seen this coming. But we’ve repeatedly failed to spot the warning signs,” he admits.

    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/04/10/thought-europes-muslims-gradually-blend-britains-diverse-landscape-known-better/

    • Huia

      The ordinary people on the street could see this coming, but of course it takes awhile for the dreamers to actually see what is going on around them.
      Lets forgive and turn the other cheek seems to be the left mantra.

      • kereru

        True but I believe they haven’t grasped the fact that oil and water don’t mix (and can’t mix) because it goes against their ‘multiculti’ idealistic worldview. Whatever the consequences, that myopic fantasy has to be preserved at all costs – and the costs are now too much to bear for the UK. Why can’t we learn from their experience as we used to? The Race Relations Commissioner wants us to wear blinkers and go back to our default position of ‘she’ll be right’. After all, she knows best.

    • johnandali

      Perhaps the politicians who knew 20 years ago that there was a need to pass legislation concerning the banning of certain dog breeds in NZ might also now realise that they should have banned pitbull and other nasties years and years ago. How many serious dog attacks and injuries does it take to get a politician off his (or her) shiny backside and get some legislation drafted? Every single person in NZ, with the exception of politicians knows about this problem. I hope that a dog attack victim will some day joint sue the relevant (I almost wrote “responsible”) politicians for the last 20 years for not prohibiting dangerous breeds.

  • Mick Ie

    Charlotte Marsh of Manurewa has now incurred a bill of $44,000.00 for not collecting her belongings after AC forced a house sale to pay her rates arrears of $12,000.00 (over 9yrs).

    As at February 2016, Penny Bright still hasn’t paid her rates arrears of $34,000.00+ (also over 9yrs) and is still living in her house.
    Where is ACs consistency? When will they force her to sell her property?

    • Mrs_R

      Penny Bright’s case is still before the courts. No ruling yet.

      • Huia

        Imagine if we all did that, the Courts would be swamped and drag out for a life time. hmmmm now that could be an idea.

    • KGB

      This case really concerned me. Where were her family, her friends, and the people she claims she paid rates to?
      Nobody should lose their home over $12k! Of course AC had to take action but something is very wrong here. It all smells like half a story.

      • Vlad

        It’s a pretty sad case, this woman is under the influence of a delusional or manipulative person called Arakunui o Tuhoe who claims “sovereignty” through a non-existent iwi authority, and has persuaded her to withhold rates (or pay them to this fantasy iwi authority). I don’t know why this awful individual isn’t in the gun.

  • willtin

    Spotted this on the Herald on-line ‘sideswipe’ this morning;

    “Our Government has just formally nominated Helen Clark for the United Nations top job, then this T-shit hits Trade Me…. “

  • kereru

    AC isn’t the only outfit that’s weak. Here’s a guy who has emigrated here and set up a business only to have had it constantly broken into. He says it’s worse here than in South Africa because the perpetrators just just a slap on the wrist. When are our lawmakers going to make the penalties fit the crime? Perhaps the guy should have a couple of pitbulls on the premises at night.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11620187

  • Nige.

    Bah ha ha. A ‘Key-denyer’ (someone who denies that National are winning the latest poll) just phoned Leighton Smith and had a whinge. He repeated over and over “you guys need to stop reporting on how popular he is”.
    “why?”
    “You just need to” (hangs up)

    Great argument. This is it. This is all they have. Repeated outbursts with no substance. Apparently outrage is all you need. No facts or reasoning.

    • Nige.

      Here we go. There’s another one. He’s obviously being targeted. Great entertainment listening to them falling all over themselves.

      • Sally

        He has certainly stirred up the envious today. They just don’t know how to argue their point.

        • kereru

          They don’t have one – it’s all about ‘feelings’ not facts.

    • Nige.

      They’re all calling themselves John. So cute

    • R&BAvenger

      It sounds like they are deeply in denial. The facts should be reported, regardless if they are unpalatable to the 28%.

    • Clydesmum

      There was an article on a Facebook page this morning, with all the usual hateful comments about John Key and ‘buying’ the votes and all the other left wing whines.

  • kereru

    ‘Independent research showed up to 110,000 people were on official waiting lists for surgery. But about 170,000 people were still not on a list, despite being told elective surgery was required.’

    I’ve got a great idea!! How about increasing the quota for ‘migrants’ from Third World countries and all their rellies? That should fix it.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11620352

    • JEL51

      It would be nice to see a break down. What does ‘surgery’ cover? If that was all hip replacements, Knee jobs & bi passes that is a worrying set of stats, if true. But how would we know if ops like wisdom teeth removal & in-growing toenails are not included to paint a different picture?

    • KatB

      I know these thoughts will go down like a lead balloon, but it’s never made sense to me why Joe Bloggs who’s worked hard all his life in a physical job, who now has bung hips and is quite crippled from them, and life has come to a stand still for him, can’t get surgery but Joanne Bloggs has a night out, gets pregnant and she can get her abortion funded, (hardly any questions asked, on demand, which is not legal). Somethings not right.

  • Nige.

    One final comment from me this morning before I go into observation mode, and that is the Council are running an ad campaign here in Marlborough, thank goodness, and it is to advise people that if they are not confident negotiating a roundabout then they should stay the hell away from them.

    Small victories.

    • Damon Mudgway

      Seriously??? Sounds like something a council would do after recommending the location of roundabouts in the first place.

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