Whaleoil General Debate

keep-calm-and-don-t-shoot-the-messenger-3Morning everyone, and welcome to Whaleoil’s daily General Debate post (another one called Backchat will start at 6pm). To participate you’ll need to register a free Disqus account.

There are some rules, and if there is one thing about Whaleoil that you need to know is that these rules are dispassionately and strictly enforced.

 


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  • Wheninrome

    “explaining is losing” Why is John Key even going there. If his tax is incorrect I am sure the IRD will sort it out. They seem to manage to question other people’s tax returns if they feel they are incorrect.

    • Usaywot

      Because if he doesn’t the left will go on and on and on and on and on and………….

      • Wheninrome

        Yes they will, but inevitably and in very quick time the public lose interest. I would let the MSM go on and on, people want to read real news, they have seen the headline, nothing there what’s new.

      • Ruahine

        Yes. It really is the lazy MSM that go on and on. Fills the empty bits between the Getty pictures and the dwindling advertising.

    • pirate vs ninja

      Maybe he has an inkling that some of the dodgers are members of the left.

  • Carl

    So the government have asked John Shewan to look into the countries tax trust laws. On one hand I heard Barry Soper and Paddy Gower saying that this guy was a great choice and will do a fantastic job. Then you have Winston Peters and Andy Little saying he is a bad choice. We have two of the least trusted professions telling us different things. So confusing who to believe on a Tuesday morning.

    • Curly1952

      It actually hurts my head trying to work the lefties out

      • dumbshit

        Well spare a thought for how theirs must be reeling, especially “jingle bells Bradford”.

        • Hard1

          !2 deadbeats waiting outside AAAP office before 7 this morning. They must be handing out free breakfast with protest training.

      • KGB

        I often think “what am I missing, am I dumb?” I just fail to understand what they’re on about half the time?
        How do we leap from a pony-tail tug to sexual abuse?
        Why is wealth such a evil sin?
        I didn’t understand the outrage over Dirty Politics, I always knew politics was dirty.
        Boxing matches are fixed. Race horses are drugged. Russian athletes use steroids. Car salesmen lie. Real Estate Agents lie more. Spies spy.
        And everyone tries to avoid or limit paying tax.

    • Jude

      I would trust John Shewan to know tax law intricately more , than any politician.
      The fact that Peters and Little say he is a bad choice, makes me think they are afraid of his intellect more than anything!

    • Keanne Lawrence

      Meanwhile in other news another a so called tax expert is sure NZ is a tax haven. A law lecturer who may only be displaying sour grapes at not being the chosen one.
      It is getting so bad we become suspicious about what somebody has to say when they carry a label like journalist, expert, academic, lecturer or professor as they all too soon illustrate their bias. While they all seem to be targeting the same thing they are like the contestants in a blind-man’s dart competition.

  • Michael

    Andrew Little must think 7% isn’t the best he can do in his quest for worst opposition leader ever. Petty, stupid politics to ask John Key to release his tax records and claim the finance industry are crooks. Looks desparate and even worse it show his total misunderstanding of basic tax and finance rules.

    It didn’t work for Helen Clark, it didn’t work for Phil Goff and it won’t work for Andrew Little.

    • Nige.

      Socialism is the obsession of money. I have not heard anyone go on and on and on about money as much as they do. They have no respect for other people’s money. It’s them who go on and on about the price of everything, and how much people are paid and SHOULD be paid.

      Quite frankly I don’t know why they aren’t referred to as what they are: Capitalist socialists.

      • KGB

        Every single hard nosed socialist I know is far wealthier than me.
        They sit on their own retirement rentals, trust funds, and holiday homes in judgement of others, while claiming empathy with those living in poverty.
        It’s gobsmacking really.

        • WeaselKiss

          Well I know my gob is smacked anyway, each and every time I think of it.
          Also, I had this thought the other day:
          Take your average (invariably dreadlocked, unwashed) yelly shouter standing outside SkyCity, shouting at the police and the world in general…if a typical one of them were to win say $100K or whatever in a lottery, do you think they would be carving off lumps of it to give to the poor and underprivledged ?
          What do you reckon, I think it’s more likely to be nooooooo not on your nelly.

          • KatB

            I think they would give it away. Be some to aunty for a holiday because she’s had a hard year, some to mum for a car because hers wont pass a warrant, some to sis so she can buy baby brand new baby stuff and so the list goes on. They go from a cash windfall, using it wisely, being able to set themselves up for life and in doing so, able to continually help out family to spending the windfall in one fell swoop and then being back in the dole queue, with the rest of the family.

          • kereru

            We knew a couple who won a 6 figure sum on Lotto and he bought a top end luxury car with all the bells and whistles, and they paid off one of their sons’ mortgage. Back to square one in no time.

          • KatB

            They had a programme on TV a while back, showing past Lotto winners. From memory most didn’t have much to show for it. People think 1 mill, or the likes, is a lot of money, which if properly managed can be a lot of money but the way most spend it, 1 mill is not much in this day and age. Take car of the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves.

        • cows4me

          The real hard nose socialist believes that calling for wealth distribution will effect others before it effects theirs. Socialism is a fantastic system, for the little guy. Of course you have to have those that advise whose wealth needs distributing.

      • Cadwallader

        Agree. Monetary greed thrives at all levels of the pond. It is just the sums and the circumstances which differ. The fundamental difference with socialists is that they can’t deal with finances without injecting envy ridden bitterness into the equations which sit neatly in what passes for their brains.

  • Cadwallader

    Here we go again….!
    Kevin Hague the Greens spokesman on health is claiming that “As climate change worsens…” we’ll have higher incidents of melanoma and mosquito borne diseases. In other words in his theories we’re becoming an equatorial climate. The report states that climate change is a fact, that it will lead to an increase in temperatures (remember “global warming?”) and ipso-facto health issues will follow. These aren’t facts they are glib predictions. Needless to say Stuff has recorded him word for word without evaluation/scrutiny.

    • Nige.

      Yeah. They promised us it would be 30° all year round by now. Still waiting……

    • Left Right Out

      I’ll never forget serving a couple of greenies on their way to a stop climate change rally, saying how great the weather was that day and they were pleased that it wasn’t cold and raining……

  • Kiwiracer

    Maybe an early election might be a good idea, I don’t think I can put up with this full retard for 18 months. . . . .as it is only going to get worse

  • pisces8284 .

    Even the earth is sick of the politic nonsense.
    Edit for pic

    • Asian_driver

      That was a good score, would have got the unemployed out of bed. Good to see it gets shared around , for training purposes of course

  • George

    “The last thing our international reputation needs is for rumours to swirl around our Prime Minister’s tax affairs,” says Andrew Little. What rumours mutton head? You are the only one who is broadcasting the “rumours” but then again since when have you have ever cared about our international reputation? You have made an art form of belittling our country and its achievements ever since you entered parliment and 93% of us have just told you that we have had a guts full of your pathetic, juvenile bad mouthing.
    The last thing our international reputation needs is you.

    • Crowgirl

      I can confirm that no one in Canada gives a toss about NZ politics, let alone the tax affairs of the PM. They are more concerned with booking flights there for their next holiday.

    • Gaynor

      I so hope Andrew Little reads your post George .

      • dumbshit

        Might be a bit short on “pictures”!

  • Usaywot

    The Herald actually has two good pieces in it today. An excellent editorial pointing out Labour’s failings and why it scored so poorly in the latest poll and a fascinating article about the capture of the Paris bombers. French investigators were told by the Muslim woman who dobbed in Abboud, the lead planner of the Paris attack, that he told her that dozens of Isis militants had accompanied him into Europe by hiding among the streams of refugees. Just as we thought. Chilling. Frightening. The moronic Angela Merkel has blood on her hands. Now who knows where they will attack next?

    • oldmanNZ

      with half a million refugees missing, they have no idea who in germany now..

  • Quinton Hogg

    When there is an opportunity to slag the PM the left become instant experts on everything.
    Mr Minto is demonstrating the truism that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
    The PM will be paying tax on income as every other person with mixed income sources does, by way of provisional tax payments and if necessary by way of terminal tax payments.
    You can bet his accountants go through things with a fine tooth comb to ensure that everything is done in according to accepted accounting standards and in accordance with the law.

    • Annoyed

      And these fools also always seem to ignore the fact that a large portion of that $5m increase would be in unrealised capital gains. So that’s “profit” that he hasn’t even made that they want him taxed on. We don’t tax business’ trading stock on hand at sale price, we tax it at cost. They’re suggesting we treat his house/shares etc at market value even though he hasn’t sold them.

  • Sally

    The Party of Envy and Bitter are running out of potential donors to fund their electoral campaign.
    So far they have upset foreigners, business people, bankers, accountants, Indian and Asian chefs, lawyers, wealthy people, and 72% of the voting population who are called dumb and stupid by their followers for not supporting them.

    Will have to stick to their $2 beggar letters because who among the sane would want to donate to angry Andy and his going down the tube political party.

  • oldmanNZ

    here we go again, NZH peice on why Islamic Terrorist is our fault because we dont follow there rules or allow their laws. (how I read it)

    by, of course the british born Iranian liviing in NZ Mojab

    • Isherman

      Her piece is quite possibly the most pathetic attempt at deflection that I have seen to date, and when you line up whats happening and by whom beside her suggestions (care of other researchers), it doesn’t stand up to even cursory scrutiny.

  • InnerCityDweller

    Minto penned this ages ago. It was on Manablog and DB back in mid-late 2014. He just keeps pushing the same idiotic argument. I actually tried to comment on that post over there and each time it was moderated out – too many facts meeting raw nerves I guess. The guy can count (wasn’t/isn’t he teaching Maths?) and the whole argument is disingenuous – yet they all lap it up from this so-called tax spokesperson…

    • Kiwiracer

      Exactly, they are so desperate for perceived ‘hits’ that they are regurgitating old mistruths, there’s a saying. . . . . .if you say something often enough someone will eventually believe it

      • johnandali

        Look what happened in the UK. The Labour Party needed a new leader. So they got some candidates together and asked the British public to vote for the candidate they preferred. They would have to pay 3 quid for each vote. And the left-of-the-left and the muzzie lovers took great advantage of this and swamped the system with votes for Corbyn who is a left-of-left candidate and a supporter of Islamic terrorist groups. And now see what has happened to the UK Labour Party as it disintegrates.

  • Wayne Hodge

    Dreadful DomPost editorial calling for Key and party leaders to make their tax returns public. Editorial claimed that only whistleblowers and journalists kept politics and business honest. Ridiculous.

    • Isherman

      Yeah, honest enough to try and make a buck from unlawfully obtained material, that’s about it.

    • Nermal

      Will that include party staff like Matt McCarten?

  • Gussie

    Looking at the Panama Papers issue superficially the left will have their field days as they now are able to confirm ‘what they knew all along’: rich pricks avoiding tax etc etc.

    What intrigues me is whether the media will also report if a ‘leader of the oppressed’ is found out as some oppressed peoples live in great poverty whilst ‘they’ have been receiving lots of aid.

    • Nige.

      If they can gloss over what went on with the labour leader at the last election then they can gloss over anything.

    • I question how much more there actually is in these “11.5 million” papers, they have been out there for 18 months apparently, would have thought if there was anything really damaging it would have been released before now.

  • JustanObserver

    I find it particularly amusing that Little Andy is mouth-breathing all over the media about NZ being a ‘Tax-Haven’ for avoiding taxes and that the ‘PM needs to come clean’ about his tax affairs . . .
    .
    Little Andy, can you please clarify what the tax compliance position is of the Unions, particularly the one you were running while it was avoiding tax?
    .
    PM material you are not, admired you are not … you are just 7%

    • Isherman

      “Come clean” from what exactly, his choice of words would suggest he believes the PM is somehow dirty. Lets face it, the only figures that clown should be concerned with are the numbers 7 and 28.

      • JustanObserver

        But the way he views things, it is the 93% & the 72% that clearly have it wrong . . . so he must try harder to enlighten us.

        • Isherman

          He’s the clown who would be PM, which as hillarious and ridiculous as it sounds is apparently still the case, so surely he should lead by example and make sure we can see all his records, including those you mention. If it’s good enough for Key to make public his tax records then so should Mr 7.

      • XCIA

        With those sort of numbers, you may think that the Muppet is better off taking advice from Big Bird at Sesame Street.

    • Mags

      Was wondering, (If NZ was a tax haven) how it would
      be done and would we notice? In bank accounts bearing a nil interest rate so that no NZ income was earnt? or by purchasing property? Wouldn’t have thought that our property market was large enough to hide money (despite Auckland and queenstown booms).
      I think we are too small in the world.

  • Warren

    I see JK is off to China next week to discuss more free trade with China. Whats the bet Winstone and Little backed by the media Party release a bunch of lies next week, to do with tax havens and how JK is hiding something. The hits always take place when he is out of the country.

  • Carl

    What is it with the Green party. They are going to oppose the governments policy of making sure rental properties have insulation and smoke alarms. They really make my head hurt at times, they might not think it is enough but does it not help the kids.

    • Crowgirl

      It’s never enough for them. They are totally irrelevant now.

  • Bluemanning

    Received this morning from one of my UK mates on FB message, since the left are using Cameron as an errant example thought it may be interesting:

    ‘The Sunday Times front page is today implying Cameron’s mother’s £200,000 gift to him is an inheritance tax ‘dodge’ and ‘avoidance’; yet I’m sure its own money section has often rightly recommended doing just that as legitimate tax planning. What next will we see “Cameron dodged £15,240 of saving tax by putting money in an ISA”?

    So far in this debate I’ve been vocal on the fact we have a moral duty to pay our taxes – its the cost of living in a legitimate civil society. And offshore complex financial avoidance and dodgy hidden manipulative trusts should rightly be called avoidance and castigated

    Yet lets call it avoidance when it is avoidance and not using government allowances to do things that we’re supposed to do – even if you’re prime minister. To try and grow this story by trying to darken the act of standard tax planning, isn’t a good route,The rules are plain you can give money from income, or give money more than 7 years before you die and there’s no inheritance tax. Utilising that isn’t dodgy.’

  • WeaselKiss

    Would someone please be able to tell me how to italisize text when I am posting here.
    I only know how when I have full menu of icons available, like on Office word.

    • Seriously?

      You could build instructions for the reader into your text. For example, you may think this suggestion is [tilt head] a bit [straighten head] stupid, but it works.

      • WeaselKiss

        Who are you, Spike Mulligan?
        No, nice answer.
        Was hoping for sommat more neck-friendly :)

        • Seriously?

          Don’t write it off. You can also [lean closer to the screen] bold text [sit upright] as well.

          Actually, I’ll be interested to hear the answer as I’ve often wanted to do that – sometimes it helps to make sure the meaning is clearly conveyed.

      • KatB

        I think I went to the same computer classes as you. As yet, thankfully I haven’t had to twink anything out on my screen.

    • crunchyfrog!

      Disqus is supposed to support (some) HTML tags – this is a bit of a test as well as (I hope) a short how to.
      to italicise test you’d use text to be italicised
      which should then produce text to be italicised

      • Spiker

        Some html tags work but not sure which.

        • kereru

          How do you do the strike-through?

          • Carl

            look at his post just above or below, it explains all.

          • kereru

            Ah I see…what an idiot genius I am! :-)

      • Carl

        Will give that a try.

    • Spiker

      Some html tags work but not sure which.

      Is done using these tags, refresh for pic.

  • JustanObserver

    I see the ‘Bus-Dirver’ got 19.5 years.
    I’m sick and tired of NZ dud-Judges giving out pathetic sentences.
    This O2 waster could be out in 10.
    The sentence of 19.5 years is about 100 years or an injection short IMO.
    How can we possibly change the Judiciary’s evaluation of what must be meted out far more harshly?

  • Petem8nz

    Remarkable.. I wonder if we have the same problem here with said country http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/australia/78778138/Diplomats-gone-wild-Saudi-staffers-run-riot-on-Australian-roads

  • Lux

    What do you think?
    The Reserve Bank of Australia has revealed the design of a new $5 note that will be issued into circulation from 1 September 2016.

    • kereru

      Rather gaudy and poorly designed.

      • Seriously?

        Yep, and therefore perfect for the Aussies.

        • Huia

          Just watch them try and claim ours now.

        • KatB

          You’re right, getting up close to my monitor and it does look like you typed perfect in bold.

      • Cadwallader

        Like their one-day cricket uniforms, girly colours for a bunch of precious clowns!

    • Crowgirl

      It’s hideous

      • Huia

        I guess those must be Banksia flowers but they look like furry insects of some kind.
        Horrible notes, ours much nicer.
        Would have been nice to have had a new flag to go with the new currency.

        • kereru

          Oh is that what they are! I thought they were some kind of trilobite. The Queen looks pretty fed up too.

          • Seriously?

            Nice use of italics! Who says you cannot teach a woodpigeon new tricks.

          • kereru

            Not so dumb as we look!

    • Ours beat theirs hands down.

    • kereru

      What’s that pink lampshade thing at the bottom meant to be – and why the bristles sticking out into the central blue bit?

      • Seriously?

        Not to mention that they have given the queen one of those silly mini-goatee things under her lower lip.

    • Melissa

      What are those green things?
      Edit; Just read other posts on what these things are – sorry.

      • Lux

        Wattle disguised as strep bacteria, others have others mistaken the Australian flora for a dunny brush.

    • kereru

      Comment from the ‘Adelaide Now’:

      ‘When the series is complete, each New Australian banknote will depict a different species of Australian wattle and a native bird, RBA Governor Glenn Stevens announced today.

      “On the $5 banknote, these are the prickly Moses wattle and Eastern Spinebill,” he said in a statement. Those are the yellow caterpillar looking things and the little bird, drawn in the middle of the note next to the slightly aged and more surly-looking queen.

      The new notes will also feature a new “tactile” feature to help the vision-impaired community distinguish between denominations.

      As one commentator said, ‘The vision-impaired are the only people who are gonna like this note…’

      http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/our-new-5-note-revealed/news-story/26913b0c498ad7f9a9b6bd67543ef6fd#load-story-comments

  • Seriously?

    It seems sense may win on fluoridation, and the decision may be taken from LG and given to DHBs. Prepare the tinfoil hats!!

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/78830036/water-fluoridation-dhbs-to-take-control-from-councils-under-govt-proposal

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