Whaleoil General Debate

keep-calm-and-don-t-shoot-the-messenger-3Morning everyone, and welcome to Whaleoil’s daily General Debate post (another one called Backchat will start at 6pm). To participate you’ll need to register a free Disqus account.

There are some rules, and if there is one thing about Whaleoil that you need to know is that these rules are dispassionately and strictly enforced.

 


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  • Sally

    What I have learnt from Little’s little stunt yesterday.
    He doesn’t know what tax returns are.
    He probably doesn’t even have an accountant.
    All his income must be taxed at source so he doesn’t even file a return.
    He probably has no idea how much work there is for businesses or self-employed in keeping good tax records.
    He earned more as in his 40 hr Unionist job than I ever did even when I worked 60 hours a week.
    Yesterday’s little stunt shows him up as a bigger idiot than I originally thought.

    • pisces8284 .

      He earned more as in his 40 hr Unionist job than I ever did even when I worked 60 hours a week.
      …..for all these years, and he has nothing to show for it

    • Woody

      He has just proven himself to be a financial and intellectual pygmy, the scary thing is that there are people in other places who are now convinced that he is the total opposite. They like Angry clearly have no understanding of Trusts, Tax Returns, Business or anything else financial apart from believing that the government owes them a champagne lifestyle while they live in high dudgeon.

    • idbkiwi

      Couldn’t agree more Sally. What a fool the man is, or a con-man. He presents a PTS (Personal Tax Summary) and either doesn’t know, or pretends not to know that it is not an Income Tax Return:

      “A personal tax summary (PTS) is for salary and wage earners and shows your income and tax deduction details for the year. These details are based on the employment, pension or benefit information provided to us each month by your employer.”

      He doesn’t know the difference between a summary, IR611, and a return: IR3. But he wants to be Prime Minister. Jesus wept.

      • Woody

        When I look at my tax summary, it shows my Super payments and the tax deducted from that. I would be a happy man if IRD accepted that as my tax return. Thanks Andy for clarifying that for me, I will instruct my accountant to write a note referring to you as the expert when they submit my next tax return.

      • Isherman

        Ahh, but did he weep, or just laugh like the rest of us?

      • Aucky

        No problem. He has Robbo, international finance wizard extraordinaire, to advise him on money matters.

        • Catriona

          Oh and don’t forget to mention his sidekick, the lovely Jacinda. She’ll put everything right when she gets her hands on the reigns of power.

          • niggly

            LMAO at your two quips!

      • herewego

        I watched IntheHouse (twice) – he stated “tax records” rather than “tax return” in tabling the papers.

        Not sure he’s trying to be cute or doesn’t know.

    • Davo42

      All he has proved is that when you got nothing you got nothing to hide.

    • Second time around

      I would like to know what his Kiwisaver funds are invested in. If the Aussie banks are so evil, the sale of NZ power company assets so bad for NZ, and corporate bonds yielding more than the OCR totally immoral, I would be very disappointed if Andy was investing vicariously in that sort of asset. It is not moral just because you feign ignorance or are too indolent to ask.

  • Quinton Hogg

    Mike H interviewing Deb Russell on radio.
    No mention of her being a labour candidate in the last election.

    • Kiwiracer

      maybe her not disclosing that could be a perception problem

    • Karma

      First it was failed 2005 Labour list MP Camille Nakhid claiming NZ police racism, and now Deborah Russell wittering on about taxes…

    • Keanne Lawrence

      Might be looking to get up the list rankings. Can’t shake off the sensation of seeing her as a Clark look alike when Henry was trying to make news. Then I turned the sound on which furthered the resemblance. Lol

      • Quinton Hogg

        There was a bit of the airbrush effect as well.

        Spooky that.

  • Nige.

    Did no one give Mike Hosking the dirt on Deborah Russell?

    • Isherman

      Txt into him and remind him perhaps?

  • Cadwallader

    The msm and the Greens’ co-leader are now stating JK has a “perception” problem. How can anyone have any degree of perception when already blinded by envy and kds? Reducing the problem to “perception” means there’s nothing else to fling at the PM. What a waste of time this has all been!

    • Wheninrome

      The greens need to get out more then they would not have a problem with perception and, dare I say, it understanding.

  • sarahmw

    Poor Lianne Dalzeil. Mentally exhausted she is. Oh dear those labor people got no idea. How do you think Bob Parker got through, he had the actual earthquakes to contend with. She wasnt short on criticizing him when she thought she was a better person for the role. Reality Lianne sure has a powerful punch does it not.

    • Blockhead

      Might have something to do with the tensions and conflict on the top floor. Apparently the CEO and Mayor hardly speak. LD is trying to build a coterie of advisers in her office rather than rely on her management team.

      • herewego

        Sounds like Auckland!

      • Disinfectant

        Well her council gave the CEO delegated powers to spend up to $800,000 on Gormless statues from Sculpter Andrew Gormley to sit in the Avon river.

        • Joe Burns

          Wot? Not acknowledging tidal rise due over the nest x hundred years?

    • stephen2d

      Mentally exhausted managing a dozen of her “cabinet advisors”?

  • Davo42

    I was at the Backbencher the other night and all the party leaders were there discussing the latest leaders poll, I thought I would see what they were drinking. See if you can work out who’s drop was who’s.

    • Isherman

      Andrew Littles drop…..7 Up.

      • Davo42

        Hehe – more like 7 down.

        • Isherman

          Heh, replied without refreshing and I didn’t see the pic. Close enough anyway.

    • Crowgirl

      This is a trick question – Winnie was drinking all of them.

    • Dan

      I’m confused, the low alcohol Nanny State Beer is not a cider. That threw me off a bit.

  • Richard

    How can labour still believe that we as a majority centrist country will adopt their crazy tax & spend, get something from nothing dogma?

    The only Socialist to make a successful go of it, lived just over 2000 years ago…and even then he ended up getting into a spot of bother.

    This guy could rock up to a party and multiply the catering effort through sheer will, the only recorded instance in history of socialism working as intended.

    I can just picture Little in his office, waving his hands in hopeful anticipation over a lowly number 7 drawn on a piece of paper, in the hopes that it will transform into a double digit.

    • Mick Ie

      Bingo! 77 = two little crutches. How apt! ;)

  • Ruahine

    My perception of Andrew Little’s financial situation is that he is very ignorant or is disingenuous.

  • Carl

    I just heard the Maori party co leader Marama Fox talking about the fishing sanctuary saying “It’s time to stop pitting kiwi against iwi as we are one in the same”. That’s right Marama we are one in the same that’s why no one should have special rights on things like fishing and land.

    • Bartman

      Add water into that mix – that will be the battle ground in 2017!

  • Isherman

    I await the hand wringing in earnest from the media, pouring forth their outrage at the outcome of the Australian 60 Minutes crew who decided a great story to help manufacture, would be the abduction of kids in a custody dispute from the streets of Lebanon. Leaving the details of the actual custody dispute aside, I’m feeling pretty short on sympathy for them myself.
    They better hope they don’t end up in Yarze Prison…that’s not going to be much fun. Even Roumieh Prison which is the best of Lebanon’s prisons doesn’t meet minimum UN accepted prison standards. Good luck.

    • sarahmw

      Methinks they thought it would be the story of the year, major networks calling, global recognition. Oh how wrong they were. Lots of wrong. Didn’t do their homework. If you’re going to snatch children don’t leave anyone behind! Rescue 101. If they had taken them all and got to the yacht they could have had a reasonable chance. Media egos ,just don’t learn.

      • Isherman

        Kidnapping, abductions and attempted abductions are not altogether uncommon in Lebanon, and neither are the instances of these attempts resulting in exchanges of gunfire and bodies in the street. They are playing a dangerous game in a very dangerous neighborhood.

    • Crowgirl

      The journalists are getting no love on social media. People are over them and their story manufacturing. Also another commission of a crime in seeking a story? They really think they make the rules.

  • herewego

    Bit disappointed in Angry’s “tax records” The CEO of a Union doesn’t earn much given the number of workers they represent. They might be sitting opposite a CEO/head of Ops/HR who’s on 5-10x their salary. I think this might explain the mental attitude and approach.

    No way I’d do the job for that (nor be an MP) – easier ways to earn a crust (or a whole loaf!)

    • MarcWills

      If the union CEO is on $178,000, that is still 10x more than the workers they are taking their salary off, and they don’t have to take a haircut when they exhort the masses to go on strike. That is still a pretty good wage if you ask me.

      • Seriously?

        I was surprised to hear it was that much. I wonder if the members of the union knew that.

      • XCIA

        Does that include all the perks such as a car, phones, expense account etc., etc.

  • Mighty1

    Does anybody know if the dog that mauled Darnell was chipped and/or registered?

  • KGB

    Another day another dog attack. History proves everyone will passionately debate the blame of dog, breed, and owner. And nothing will change.
    I checked the penalties for dog owners when dogs attack.
    Up to 3 years imprisonment and/or up to $20k fine. Good news, nothing wrong with current laws and consequences.
    It is obviously a simple matter of inforcement. Every dog attack owner MUST be prosecuted, every dog must be destroyed. No 2nd chances, no stays of execution.
    In my opinion only law that needs to be addressed is the back yard breeders that sell mixed breed mongrels. These puppy-mill style scumbags don’t vet new owners, flog these puppies for $50 on Facebook, and abuse their own dogs by way of perpetual breeding. Stop the breeding.

    • Seriously?

      Alas you’re a little bit optimistic…

      Dog attacks stock, domestic animal, protected wildlife, or (non-serious attack on a) person: up to 3,000 fine (usually much less), dog get put down, reparations. Section 57

      The vast majority of prosecuted attacked fall into s57.

      What you noticed was the more serious charges under s58. Dog attacks a person causing serious injury: dog gets put down, fine of up to 20k, prison for up to 3 years, or both. Serious injury is not defined, but for a rule of thumb serious injury might be that which requires hospitalisation.

      My experience is that Council’s do take action, but the vast majority of attacks are not reported to them. The attacking dog is often the pet of the victim’s family, or another family known to them. Blaming the Councils for this is too easy and I think not accurate.

      Agree regarding the breeding.

      • KGB

        ACC statics define bits that require hospital treat as serious, which would seem perfectly reasonable. The figures supplied were 5,800 “serious injuries” yet only 350 dogs destroyed.
        I blame lack of enforcement for those pathetic statistics. Council, Courts, and Police.
        Has the owner of the dog that attacked the 7 year old been charged? There can be no doubt his dogs attack would pass the s58 test.
        Being all sorry and sad publicly is a nice start, but being prosecuted is vital to a change in behaviour.

        So we must agree to disagree :)

        • Seriously?

          And the 5,800 is probably on the low side!

          But how many of those incidents were reported to the Council. I think you’d find it was a very small proportion as people would be reporting themselves or their friends.

          I think we probably agree on much of it, and the need for action.

          • KGB

            I might be missing something but my interpretation of the ‘Dog Control Act 1996’ is that it falls under the ‘Criminal Proceedure Act’ therefore a police issue?
            Councils by-laws decide what beaches, parks, leash laws are appropriate in their cities.
            The Act mentions the ability for Police to enter a property without warrant to seize a dangerous dog.
            So I assumed the Police and Courts were answerable, not Councils?

            “March 10, 2016. A Murupara man was discharged without conviction under the Dog Control Act 1996, after paying $7,500 reparation.
            His dogs attacked a 7 year old girl visiting the property, inflicting over 100 bites to her face and limbs.
            The 4 dogs were destroyed.”

            Unbelievable really. Carry on nothing to see here! No wonder nothing changes. Society is more outraged by the scarring of a kauri than the scarring of a child.
            I wonder how many dogs the Muruapara man owns today?

            PS. Sorry for the rant. My grandchild lives next door to one of these dogs. It has already come over and killed the kids 6 chickens. That dog will get my grandson one day, but Council says if it gets out again “look out.” After 4 months of ‘nice talky resolution sessions’ arranged by Council the owners offered $20 per chook compensation which satisfied dog control. My son refused the money as he wanted the dog destroyed. I’d take the money and buy poison!

          • HR

            A small lead ball in its left ear would sort it. Unfortunately, you will get in trouble for that, and the poison. Not a nice situation to be in.

          • Seriously?

            Don’t apologize for the strength of your opinion. I have been involved in prosecuting offence like these and some of the injuries are devastating, and the ones to little kids particularly heartbreaking. I keep my kids away from large dogs, and would never left them approach a pit bull – the risk is just not worth it.

            The police can bring prosecutions, but in practice it is usually the Council that investigates and prosecutes offenses under the Dog Control Act. The ones I have seen the police doing are the odd s58 matter (and one s57 charge where the dog bit a cop).

            What council’s area does your grandchild live in? I might be able to help.

          • KGB

            Thank you for your offer.
            I went full feral at the council when the chook incident happened. I am still on parole with DIL but there are whispers of a job offer requiring a move next year. Fingers crossed:)

  • Kiwiracer

    I received my first call from Colmar Brunton last night, and it was on my mobile, another myth of the left exposed as a lie, Colmar Brunton do ring mobiles.

    • Aucky

      And I am registered online for Colmar Brunton surveys so there goes another myth.

  • Seriously?

    If Andrew Little is so concerned about people that arrange their affairs so as to minimize their tax liability, I’m sure he’d welcome a look at whether he and his colleagues has arranged their affairs to maximize their parliamentary allowances.

    If one is morally wrong, then surely both must be?

  • Sally

    Is this a conflict of interest? Julie Anne Genter who is the Green spokesperson for transport, previously she worked as a transport planner so qualified to talk about the public transport in Auckland.
    However in the Register of Pecuniary she has listed under other companies and business entities, MRCagney – transport and planning consultancy.
    Now MRCagney list under their case studies, Auckland Public Transport Network, Northern Western Busway Preliminary Assessment and Ameti Public Transport implementary Studies.

    Wonder what her connection with MRCagney is?

    • Seriously?

      No no, only the right suffer conflicts of interest, the for left it is called informed debate.

      Take Labour’s advocacy on behalf of the teacher unions who have a say in the appointment of the Labour leader…

  • Graham Pilgrim

    This from “NewsHub” last night: “Govt argues with Police over $26M”

    Is this so called “shortfall” of $26 million genuine, or is this a contrived amount?

    Link below.

    http://www.newshub.co.nz/…/govt-argues-with-police-over-26m-2016041218

    • crigs

      That’s a link to “page not found”

      • Graham Pilgrim

        This was a “story” on TV3 about funding for the Road Policing Programme, and how there was a “shortfall” of $26 million. Allegedly, the Police were asking for $986 million, but were going to receive just $960 million, a very convenient $26 million short!

        In an official document published by the NZTA in October 2015, the figure approved for the Road Policing Programme is clearly stated at $960 million, so where $986 million came from is anyone’s guess.

        I smell a rat.

  • Isherman

    How to maximise the enjoyment of watching the left and the KDS sufferers go full retard over John Key and his wealth?….start lobbying for John Keys portrait to feature on a future revamp of the NZ $5 note. I suggest the smallest denomination so that the KDS sufferers see it more often.
    That would be truly hillarious.

  • Annoyed

    Given that the Panama papers & foreign corporation tax avoidance issues are currently the leftie’s issue du jour I figured it would be a pertinent time to ask a question re a labour policy/soundbite:

    Labour have stated that they wish to get rid of secondary tax multiple times. The secondary tax system is explicitly in place to ensure people with multiple jobs pay the correct amount of tax. By getting rid of this, Labour would be actively assisting these people in not paying the correct amount of tax. They could file their PTS at year end and pay the tax owing but Labour has made no indication of education etc in this respect and there is no reasonable expectation that these people would file. It’s much more likely that they would wait and hope the IRD don’t notice their tax liability. Instead they seem to be talking about actively helping these people evade (rather than avoid) their tax liability.

    They’re talking about how people should pay their fair share of tax while at the same time trying to remove a system that is in place specifically for that purpose.

  • kiwinev

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10540325 Looks like Losers (Labour) Party at it again!

  • Sally

    Ahh now we are getting down to the nub of it. Just being nosey parkers and any gotcha moments will help the sufferers of KDS.

  • Keanne Lawrence

    Shaw talking about perceptions is rather funny. Apart from his lack of them save global warming. Temperatures in Manila reached 36 degrees for the first time this century. Wow must be global warming? No way as they still don’t match the highs of 40 plus degrees back in 1912. The only difference might be that back then the temperature was measured with mercury which is a no-no thing these days.

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