Whaleoil General Debate

keep-calm-and-don-t-shoot-the-messenger-3Morning everyone, and welcome to Whaleoil’s daily General Debate post (another one called Backchat will start at 6pm). To participate you’ll need to register a free Disqus account.

There are some rules, and if there is one thing about Whaleoil that you need to know is that these rules are dispassionately and strictly enforced.


THANK YOU for being a subscriber. Because of you Whaleoil is going from strength to strength. It is a little known fact that Whaleoil subscribers are better in bed, good looking and highly intelligent. Sometimes all at once! Please Click Here Now to subscribe to an ad-free Whaleoil.

  • Richard

    Somebody really needs to do something about that loophole, where you can assemble

    a news crew and fly to Beirut to kidnap a Lebanese nationals two kids off the street, in an attempt to smuggle them out of the country.

    • Woody

      Seems that the Lebanese have that particular loophole well covered but just to check, Heather should go have a crack.

    • idbkiwi

      Agree Richard, what a sordid and mickey-mouse effort from 60 Minutes, but they still could’ve slipped through that loophole if only they had used someone competent; however “The reason ’60’ didn’t go with us is we were dearer and we don’t work with media, not in that sense, anyway,” Chapman said he… “would never allow a media client to direct their operations during a child recovery attempt to suit filming priorities and deadlines.”


    • Wheninrome

      The lengths MSM will go to for a story, actually grying to create it, they may have met their match. They have no business interfering in something like this, there are the appropriate agencies that work to achieve the correct result. In saying that the father appeared reasonable, maybe I missed something but I thought the mother was If I was being nice, naive at best, stupid at worst. The children did not appear unhappy and looked as thought they loved their father.

    • Cadwallader

      The escapade of this crew of media seems to typify how these people believe they are above ethics, the law, and public opinion. They no longer deliver the news they attempt to manufacture it. I have zero sympathy for them and remain disgruntled that Ms du Plessis-Allan walked from her offence. They are out of control, but perhaps a Court in Beiruit can pop this lot’s balloon of self-righteousness.

      • Huia

        It was all in the interests of the public you know, where there is usually no accountability and breaking the law is ignored.
        I think these idiots picked the wrong country this time.

      • axeman

        Agree, when they got caught and realized that they could end up doing 20 years banged up in a foreign country and Jail, and that nobody cares over there who they are, all of a sudden it not all quite roses and and a lot of self pity

        • Cadwallader

          Apparently sentiment in Australia is not with them either? How sad, never mind, let’s enjoy the day here!

          • Sailor Sam

            There is subdued reporting here on this, especially in the commercial TV media, the ABC is more direct.
            Commercial TV media knows that these sorts of stunts have been done by them all for years.
            The reporter maybe faces 20 years in a lebanese jail.
            It does not help that she is a good looking blond western female.
            And there is not much sympathy here, especially when there are claims Ch9 paid for the whole operation.
            edit – added last sentence.

          • axeman

            Yep a lesson for all MSM that they are not above the law and can and should be held to account. If that happened more often we might have a media that just reported facts and not beat ups

    • OneTrack

      What could go wrong?

  • Wasapilot

    Refresh to picture.

    I am outraged over this adverisement. They spelt Bacon incorrectly!

    • Doc45

      The other outrage is that she has no protection. Some ovens can be really hot. Not sure about muffins but putting buns in the oven can lead to problems. Home economics 101 – always use protection.

  • Woody

    For some weird reason I have spent a bit of time over the last couple of days reading the Stuff site with a focus on politics. I had to keep checking that I was on Stuff and hadn’t inadvertently switched to one of the more rabid left wing blogs.

    When did Stuff slip that far left? The JK hate is palpable.

    • R&BAvenger

      That’s why I haven’t bothered with Stuff since last year.

      • Isherman

        Suffering from what Trotter is calling “Reflexive Left Syndrome” perhaps?, which is odd because the lefties will tell you in no uncertain terms that our MSM is firmly in the nasty neo-libs pocket, usually right after anybody points out where Labour are getting it wrong or not being consistent. Go figure.

    • Wayne Hodge

      Been like that for a while now. Plus article content is ever more removed from fact and replaced by innuendo and conjecture. Website headlines bear little if any relationship to content especially where JK is concerned. There is an epidemic of KDS on that site. Sometimes you think you are at The Daily Blog when reading the comments.

  • MaryLou

    Th Face of the Day story – what an amazing woman. One sentence on her heartbreaking blog stood out though:

    “Towards the end of Year 9 I had to move back home. My Dad had calmed down a lot but I was still scared and still angry.”

    She had to move back home, to live with her abuser. THAT in a nutshell is what is wrong with shuffling kids around. By the time he’d broken her arm, surely he had forfeited any parental rights? By the time he had broken her arm, surely she had earned what we normally assume is the right of any child – a safe and protected environment? We have to stop doing this – there are people desperate to adopt, who would provide a loving and stable base for that child’s entire life. THAT’s what she deserved.


    • It proves to me that there remains equality of opportunity, rather than equality of outcome. You can choose to be a victim, or be a winner.

      She’s earned her respect the only way it can be earned.

      • MaryLou

        Yes. But it does not negate the fact that in this system, the child’s rights are well and truly trumped by the parents. It’s wrong.

        • I only see love in this photo. Awesome.

          • MaryLou

            Gosh yes. It really is.

          • Oh bugger. We’re off script. We better get back to being a racist hate blog. ;)

          • MaryLou

            I was workin’ on it!!

  • niggly

    Did anyone catch Radio NZ Morning Report “journalist” Guyon Espinner’s most disgraceful interview ever (and gee there have been many but this took the cake), with his bullying and confrontational interview with the mild mannered Minister of Local Government Louise Upston?

    Gobby Guyon, fancying himself as a pitbull attack dog, essentially was attacking and blaming the Minister for these dog attacks and for not outright banning the dog breed whilst she was on his show.

    It was a nasty interview, with Gobby seething with hate and anger over this National Minister (his hate was not only exploding the whole time, being prerecorded it contrasted with his calmness when the show resumed its live broadcast chit chat etc).

    I hope wider media pick up on this disgraceful interview and shame Radio NZ.


    • Guyon Espiner retweeted


      AndrewDickson13’s avatar

      Dr Andrew Dickson @AndrewDickson13

      To all @NzMorningReport listeners heckling @GuyonEspiner this isn’t pleasantville!


      Guyon Espiner retweeted


      jo_moir’s avatar

      Jo Moir @jo_moir

      Guide to surviving @GuyonEspiner interview: if you’re not going to do something have at least one solid reason why not #dogban


      Guyon Espiner retweeted


      maxamillianz’s avatar

      Maxamillian Shields @maxamillianz

      Regardless of view on #killerdogs, that was a terrible performance from the minister then!

      • niggly

        Are those his fan club kissing Guyon’s butt or something?!

        11-12 years ago when that young girl was attacked by a dog in an Auckland park, the issue was brought to everyone’s attention (via the MSM and the Labour Govt of the time), it was widely discussed and debated but at the end of the day Labour didn’t do much if anything, and PM Clark and her other MP’s weren’t attacked by rabid Morning Report hosts!

        As Louise Upston said in her interview this morning, it’s a complex issue to ban pitbulls in terms of defining how much percentage of pitbull does one draw the line at. Pity Guyon couldn’t have an intelligent debate on this aspect because then we all might get somewhere constructive on how to deal with the issue.

        Personally I’d like to see that breed banned, but realistically one probably couldn’t eliminate the bitpull gene for generations, if at all. So it’ll provide a false sense of security.

        The other issue of course, are some less desirable (useless) owners of the dog. Registering owners might be the way to go ultimately, but in the meantime responsible dog owners are then hit with compliance and licencing costs whilst these less desirable (useless) owners simply won’t bother.

        • OneTrack

          Destroy all pitbulls. Ban their entry into the country.

          No, it’s not hard at all. If you need someone to tell if a dog is a pitbull, I will do it.

          • Dan

            Banning importation of pitbulls is relatively easy (may even be so now), but what about a 50% pitbull? 25%? 10%? Or do we ban any dog that looks like a pitbull. Perhaps we should ban any dog coming in that snarls at customs. There would be a huge difference between, say, my purebred labrador and a pit bull. The former would shake it’s tail off when the cargo cage is opened, while the latter would launch at the quarantine guy’s face.

            Destroy all pitbulls? More difficult because of the crossbreeds.

            I feel sorry for owners of the Staffies, thse are amazing dogs, but get a bad rap because they share the surname – ‘Bull terrier.’

          • Usaywot

            Ban any new imports and insist all pitbulls already here are sterilised. It will take time to get rid, of course, but at least it would be a start, better than wringing hands and doing nothing. I remember the debate about allowing them in in the first place and some idiot MP OK’d it. I wish I could remember who he was.

          • kereru

            Has anything changed since this Act was passed in 2003? I see American pit bull terriers are on the banned list. That doesn’t stop the breeding of the dogs in NZ, so I agree that there should be mandatory de-sexing of all pit bulls. Less obvious cross breeds should be tagged with an implant so that they can be put on a register and monitored. Owning a menacing or dangerous dog without a permit should be a criminal offence involving a fine/prison sentence and the dog put down.


          • HR

            And people recognize this and register their cross breed as a Staffordshire Bull terrier. Which is NOT a pitbull.

            A big problem is the cross breeding of dogs. The people who are not professional breeders don’t breed for the particular characteristics of the breed, or breed standards. Take a pig dog for example. They are generally bred for their aggressive tendencies, and bred to chase and corner or kill an animal. Doesn’t take much of a leap to see where breeding for those qualities will lead.

    • Usaywot

      Never listen to the little twerp any more so, thankfully, I missed it. Got sick of his nasty, self righteous manner and his “look at me, look at me. I’m so clever I speak Maori” introductions which were getting longer and longer.

    • Cadwallader

      Mmmmh for all his self-opinionated clap-trap he isn’t quite as irritating as Paddy Gower. The remedy is to avoid contact (albeit third-hand) with these twerps.

    • KGB

      I agree that he was rude in his attack-style interview. He talked over her and bullied his opinion at her without respect for her answer.
      However, I share his opinion and concern. Why aren’t these owners prosecuted to the full extent of the law?
      I hope she goes away and gets answers to all the questions she couldn’t answer. When she does I am sure she will agree that owners usually escape accountability and something has to change.

  • kereru
  • Seriously?

    I was just listening to Hoskins interview someone on sport fixing, and I think we are missing the point: we need to legalise the betting worldwide.

    The only reason there is any money to be made in match fixing is that there are punters losing money – the without them, there is no cash in the game. But why would Joe Punter want to put up their cash in circumstance where they know they are being taken advantage of? Party at least because they have no better option.

    By driving the betting underground (such as in India) you create the circumstances where Joe Punter can be taken advantage of. You leave them no alternative, and no comeback.

    Another benefit of legislation is that unusual betting patterns can be identified and people caught. It would be in the industry’s interest to do so – it would encourage Joe Punter to be involved and hence make their industry more profitable.

    There was the case in Australia a while back of a rugby league player that deliberately gave away a penalty trying to make that the first points of the game, an outcome his accomplices has bet some 20k on. It didn’t actually work, the attacking team took a tap and played on, but it stuck out as an unusual bet. CCTV footage helped them identify who placed the bets, and trace the link to the player. I don’t think that would have happened if the better market had been illegal (at best the heavies might pay a visit, but who is going to call the Police).

    If we continue to focus on the sportspeople, I don’t think we will ever solve it.

  • R&BAvenger

    Family member posted a like to FB to a TBD article yesterday. I know she isn’t a big fan of the PM, but thanks to his government’s steady hand on the economic tiller, she does have another, better job that she is happier in since being made redundant 2 years ago.
    The article ‘ National voters are to blame’ – ‘If JK beat a baby in public, the mother would get the blame’ – or some such nonsense.
    I am truly, truly disappointed that she would favour such rubbish. I guess on 28% of the voting public would agree, being aware of her voting preferences.

  • johcar

    Apologies. I missed posting a picture of my new ride last night, as I had promised the night before. I took it for a bit of a blatt and lost track of time (it’s AWESOME!!!)…

    Here it is

    The Forester XT is my supplementary ride (hard to carry golf clubs on the bike….)

    • Isherman

      Nice, doesn’t bare much resemblance to the old 1975 Tiger though, I might have thought a little homage would be in order for such a classic model?

      • johcar

        Technologically, it bears little resemblance to its earlier namesake also. I think that is a good thing. :)

        • Isherman

          Harsh, lol. I’ve got a soft spot for the ol clanger myself, not even sure exactly what it is but there’s just something about them.

          • johcar

            (un?)fortunately, the Triumph brand is just that these days.

            There’s nothing British about the modern counterparts, tother than the name.

            Some may see that as a good thing, some, nostalgic for the noisy, oil-dripping, unreliable days of yore, may see that as a bad thing…. :D

            I’m in the middle – love the nostalgia of the brand, but enjoy the modern changes…

            At least my leather jacket now matches the bike I ride – I was a little uneasy riding a BMW and wearing a Triumph branded jacket (don’t mention the war!)….

  • kereru

    Bill English is under fire from the CTU for his opinion that some Kiwis looking for work are ‘pretty damned hopeless’.

    Labour MP Iain Lees-Galloway was at that meeting and says the deputy prime minister’s comments were a “disgrace”.


    • niggly

      TV news last night showed an “Angry Iain” (Andy’s anger is catching on!) and Bill English calmly and confidentially standing his ground on this issue, stating the obvious and putting Iain in his place! Well worth checking out if you haven’t already!

      • kereru

        Incapable of substantiating their opinion, the Left just goes for slogans and insults – whether it’s a rag-tag mob of the unkempt or an MP. You expect nothing more from rent-a-mob layabouts, but shouldn’t an MP have some hard evidence to back up his point of view?

        • Isherman

          Exactly, if Wagstaff wants an apology, then he should do the courtesy of showing that one is in order by proving the comments of Bill English are somehow untrue, if not, no apology is in order, but the usual suspects have attempted to suggest he was referring to all workers somehow, and are going all apoplectic about it in their nasty little blogs. If anything they should apologise for deliberately taking things out of context to pretend he was saying something he clearly didn’t.

          • kereru

            It now seems to be impossible to express an opinion based on fact without someone getting uppity about it and demanding apologies for hurt feelings. But then the Left is all about ‘feelings’ rather than concrete proposals to deal with issues. They don’t seem to be able to contribute much to the debate, which is an indication of the shallowness of their thinking. What it shows is that Labour is flailing about hoping that some of their punches will land.

    • R&BAvenger

      Bill is speaking the truth. I know, I live with one of the, and he’s not a Kiwi either!

    • johnandali

      Bill English is spot-on. When I worked for the Dept of Statistics on the Household Labour Force Survey many years ago, I was told that world-wide an unemployment rate lower than 5% was almost impossible, as 5% of the labour force was virtually unemployable. It might help Lees-Galloway if he contacted the ILO (International Labour Organisation) that regulates the procedures for collecting labour force statistics worldwide, to ask them about the 5% unemployable rate. He might get a very bad surprise when they tell him the facts of life in the real world.

      • MaryLou

        Agreed, mostly. We’re at about that now, but I reckon if you totally wiped all benefits for working aged people you might get it down to 4%, quite quickly! Who knows, maybe a little bit lower. But you’re totally correct about there being a decent percentage of unemployables under the current structure.

        Which is why Merkels decision to “bring in migrant (refugee) labour” is such rubbish – we’re already going to have to figure out what to do with our growing number of unemployables we already have, without bringing in more.

  • Sally

    Sometimes I have this inane thought wishing Labour/Greens/NZ First form a government next year. It would be much better fun attacking them in government than the opposition. The bet would be on how longer it would take before it all came crashing down on top of them. Only problem is how much damage they could inflict on NZ before that happened.

    Off to wash my mouth out with soap!

    • Dave of the West Bank

      Make that sand soap, Sally!

    • Dan

      That would be a dangerous experiment, but I think that if it happened, Question Time would be compulsory viewing. Just imagine it!

      • kereru

        Pity they couldn’t have a trial period just to see what happens when they have to decide how they’re going to work together before they’re given the responsibility to run ruin the country. Dangerous to let them loose without passing the test first.

    • johnandali

      Well, apart from their personal differences, they could easily raise a lot of money to give to the “poor”. Capital gains taxes. Death duties. Stamp duty on sales of housing. Land tax on any land other than your residence. Means testing for National Super. And the list goes on. Whoops…. Shouldn’t have written this. They’ll get ideas……. And then what?

  • Dan

    Forgive my ignorance, I must have been on another planet the last few weeks, but can someone please unpack the acronym KDS please? [hoping it’s not rude]

    • Hardie Martin

      Key Derangement Syndrome

      • Dan

        Whew! Thanks. Now I can understand some of the comments better ;)

        • It was even a Quiz question!


  • Mark

    So as I was looking out my window during breakfast & watching the ferals/homeless/cockroaches finish the morning shift & shuffle off down the road for a free feed,a thought occurred to me.

    You are brown or white by an accident of birth,you’re not Maori,or Samoan or God forbid a Kiwi for that requires effort & pride & contributing to the society you do nothing but exist in,and that is why I feel nothing but contempt for you.

  • Isherman

    I notice incidentally that John Shewan, appointed to look into the Foreign Trusts distraction, is also the deputy Chairman of the Partnership Schools Authorisation Board, but I’m sure that would in no way colour the thinking of the opposition who are opposed to his appointment…or if they didn’t know, will they just be even more against it?

  • kereru

    I’m disappointed – how is anything going to be done to eradicate savage dogs if the man in the street makes these kinds of excuses for them?


    • KGB

      Two more seperate dog attacks requiring hospitalisation yesterday.

  • Sally

    Naughty mediaworks – breaking an embargo. Hope the journalist concerned got a big rap over the knuckles.