Whaleoil General Debate

keep-calm-and-don-t-shoot-the-messenger-3Morning everyone, and welcome to Whaleoil’s daily General Debate post (another one called Backchat will start at 6pm). To participate you’ll need to register a free Disqus account.

There are some rules, and if there is one thing about Whaleoil that you need to know is that these rules are dispassionately and strictly enforced.


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  • idbkiwi

    Dishonesty; thy name is The Dom-Post. (Maybe it should be re-named The Com-Post?)

    Breathlessly, and with full-frontal-page treatment, announcing “BOOM IN THE ‘BURBS”, it appears Wellington house buyers have gone totally mad, insane in fact.

    The Con-Post’s magnificent team of Fairfax journalists have presented a headline story showing how a humble property in a humble suburb which sold only ten months ago for $454k has suddenly appeared back on the market demanding an asking price upwards of $695k! Outrageous isn’t it? A 60%-70% increase in less than a year. Cos’, dunno, probly Chinese.

    This particular house is indicative of something special apparently; indeed it “starkly illustrates”, the paper darkly broods, rampant property price inflation. Is it though?, or is it a stark illustration of journalistic mendacity? The Crock-Post must truly believe their readers are completely stupid, living under some stump somewhere with no internet access, because nowhere, nowhere in the “story” does it mention that 146 Britomart St has had a lick of paint in the meantime…

    • Usaywot

      And no doubt been fully refurbished throughout. Urgggggh! I’m getting sick to death with this rubbish.

      • Ruahine

        Get Bernard Hickey. He knows a lot about the prices of houses dropping. Ha Ha Ha.

  • Wendy

    Morning Team,
    Im just home from night shift, enjoying my tea and toast (marmalade) and catching up on yesterdays news.
    Thank goodness for WO…the Herald dross has me losing the will to live.
    Happy Thursday to all.

    • Wendy

      For example…

      This old Samoan chap has been on a sickness benefit in NZ for 29 years.

      His application for NZ Super was declined because he didn’t meet the residency criteria, which then alerted WINZ to the fact that for the same reason, he may not have been eligible for the 29 years of sickness benefit that he has received.

      For five months WINZ asked him to provide the necessary documentation but he chose not to.

      It is the last sentence that is the gem…Auckland Action Against Poverty spokesman says “There is a clear drive by the Government to decrease the numbers of people on benefits by whatever means necessary.”

      Oi vey.


      • Cadwallader

        My humble suggestion is for the NZ government to spend some $$$$ deporting bludgers. That will certainly be an effective (and a welcomed) measure to drive down beneficiary numbers.

      • Curly1952

        I saw that too Wendy. All fault lies with him and his family. The “reporter” is trying for a hit on the Government but missed by the proverbial mile.
        The Government is at “fault” by continuing to pay him a benefit whilst they waited for him to provide documentation. They should have stopped the benefit as soon as they noticed the problem.
        And can any one tell me again why it is bad that the Government try to decrease the numbers of people on benefits?

        • Wendy

          And if you read closely you will see he was granted citizenship yesterday, WINZ staff contacted him to encourage him to get in touch with them so they could help him yesterday…yet at 5.00am this morning the writer (journalist is a bit of a stretch) says “he has not yet got back his benefit”.

          Hey Simon…has he even been to the WINZ office yet?

          Edited to add a bit.

        • Mick Ie

          I guess that WINZ have just discovered the problem which is why this has happened.

      • Crowgirl

        I was particularly struck by the fact that this fine upstanding citizen legged it from the islands leaving behind his wife and 7 children, to take up residence in NZ with family instead. The same family that he’s so close to that they didn’t visit him enough to notice his power had been cut off for a year, and then passed him around the extended family until they finally legged it to Australia, leaving him behind. I thought a condition of residence would be that you had strong family ties in the new place. I don’t think there’s much stronger tie than a wife and 7 kids though so I really can’t fathom how he met that criteria in the first place.

        It also appears he spent less than 10 years being productive before going on a benefit where he’s been ever since. Surely some rules need to be tightened up around this stuff?

        • KGB

          He has been on a benefit for 29 years after paying tax for a maximum of 12 years. Most likely on a low tax bracket.
          I had a rant about this type of cost to NZ taxpayers this morning.
          Time to change eligibility years of contribution.

          • Crowgirl

            12 years – you are right, before he developed some vague “sickness” that meant he couldn’t work ever again, but that nobody can actually describe. We are too soft.

          • KGB

            I would guess his blindness is diabetes related, based on his picture? I could be totally wrong but if not, he is also been an expensive health consumer.

          • Crowgirl

            He’s deaf, not blind as far as I can tell. The deafness probably accounts for the loss of English speaking skills, but he cannot even describe in his own language what sickness he has been suffering from for 29 years.

          • KGB

            Oops :)

      • rantykiwi

        The question that needs to be asked is “How many more overstaying islanders are collecting benefits to which they are not enttled?” And also “When are they going to be deported?”

        • Wendy

          I frequently go to the homes of elderly non English speaking migrants (from where is not important) who live in either State or Council houses.

          Why are we importing penniless elderly people?

          What sort of migrants do we want in New Zealand?

          • Usaywot

            It’s time this family reunification nonsense was hit on the head. If I elected to go and live in the US or England, why should I expect that my parents could too. They probably couldn’t. I’m at a loss as to why we import these drains on our tax system. Apparently the chinese community is planning a big block of flats in Panmure to house elderly, non-english speaking chinese migrants. I suspect their families tell immigration they will house and look after them but chuck them their parents out once they’re here.

        • Miss McGerkinshaw

          Bring back Muldoon’s ‘dawn raids’ I say!
          Not viable in todays world and not sure it solved the problem but certainly gave overstayers food for thought.

    • Aucky

      It’s so predictable. Domestic dross, a Rachel Smalley anti-Israel piece, Donald Trump and the housing ‘crisis’. Much of it has been there since yesterday and some for more than 24 hours. The biggest surprise is that Emmerson hasn’t had a go at the PM today.

      And they really think that they can paywall this stuff?

      • InnerCityDweller

        I think they should (paywall it). It would mean that those of us still tempted to pop in every once in a while simply can’t and won’t.

  • Cadwallader

    I heard Ms Smalley on the radio the other night previewing her next morning’s show to Larry Williams then subsequently heard the final 15 minutes of a morning broadcast from her. My opinion remains constant: She is a vacuous lightweight but additionally she is fundamentally a pompous snob. Her difficulty is compounded by her delivery. Generally she sounds fragile and thinly voiced but when she attempts to sound authoritative she merely becomes pompous. Who on earth imagined she could ever be a serious current affairs commentator must be deluded. When you compare her to the pondered and measured thoughts of (say) Leighton Smith her ineptitude is profound. Please ZB get rid of her!

    • RightyTighty LeftyLoosey

      Have you seen her story in the Herald this morning? It is about the UK labour MP that has the solution for the Israel-Palestine conflict by moving Israel to the USA. Not ONCE does she mention that the Labour MP is MUSLIM which is kind of important to the story……..

      • Cadwallader

        Why am I not surprised? I admire your personal strength in being able to not only open the Herald but then to read her drivel all before 8am! Is your breakfast remaining inside you?

        • RightyTighty LeftyLoosey

          The secret is to read the herald before you eat your breakfast.

          • Cadwallader

            Say; 8 hours before reading the Herald?

          • kereru

            Drinking tea when I read her drivel. Blood pressure shot up a bit. Some advice from Abraham Lincoln for the vacuous Rachel:

            “Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.

          • MaryLou

            Is that weight loss advice? If you do that, you’ll never fore your brekkie past your lips!

        • Isherman

          Strong coffee helps.

        • Bluemanning

          I admire your tolerance in listening to 1zb. Turned that broadcaster off ages ago, definitely gone downhill.
          However when I did listen to Larry, Smalley in previewing her ‘show’ would preface every answer with “well, I don’t know, but” and that statement and in only that statement I had to agree with her.

          • Cadwallader

            Agree. Her most preferred phrases seem to be “you know” and “sort of.” Her diction is atrocious and her powers of perception even worse.

    • cows4me

      I don’t think she is getting enough sleep, the early mornings are doing her head in. Besides the people that would most agree with her comments probably don’t get out of bed before 10.30.

    • PsychoKea

      While they are at it , I wish they would also get rid of that annoying twerp Jack Lame

      • Cadwallader

        They have acquired some dubious “commentators” of late. Tame is a twerp as you say but so is the guy who accompanies Kerre (Use By Date) Woodham. Marcus Lush seems to have veered to the left while in Invercargill and Bruce Russell is an avuncular clutz. The two Tims appear to adore each other and themselves in equal measure…I think the term is self-preening?

      • Usaywot

        Jack Tame became a reporter when he was barely out of his teens and this somehow gives him the right to be a fount of all knowledge on everything? The title is REPORTER not AUTHORITY.

        • PsychoKea

          The guy is extremely light weight hardly a viable fill in for Hosking, he would probaby find is niche on the graveyard shift

      • OneTrack

        And how much does it cost for him to run his show from the US? As opposed to employing someone who lives here. It is strange.

  • Sailor Sam

    “Labour identifies Panama company allowed to buy “sensitive” NZ land” screams a headline in Stuff.
    This company has bought a farm.
    In the guts of the article however it states that the government has already instructed the OIO to check this company out, so it was not a little party discovery at all then.
    Another KDS attack by the media?

    • Annoyed

      First rule of Stuff: Read the last 3-4 paragraphs first. More often than not the truth (AKA: the bit that isn’t attacking the government) is at the bottom.

      • richard.b

        First rule of ‘Stuff Club’ – don’t talk about stuff club

  • KGB

    Does the NZ Government need to address the age qualification for immigration and returning Kiwis? As we now all live longer 10 years does not seem a fair contribution to our tax system.
    Immigrants must be under 55 to qualify. That 10 year contribution can include tax paid on benefits paid once obtaining residency (ACC included). But aside from that, 10 years is a cheap investment towards the cost of providing an immigrant 15-20 years of super, housing, and healthcare.
    I am not just picking on immigrants. Returning Kiwi bring the same issues back with them. They too must contribute for 10 years, but can divide this into 2 groups of 5.
    Some return with overseas pension plans, but many do not. Is it fair to live overseas most of your working life and return at 60, to be supported by those who stayed?
    The 10 year qualification needs to be adjusted now we all live longer. 80 is the new 70, so perhaps a 20 year tax contribution would be fairer.

    • Cadwallader

      I know of a NZ born woman who lived 30+ years in the USA then returned at age 62 last year. Her marriage to a US citizen had collapsed and due to her own choice in not acquiring citizenship the Americans told her to get out! Needless to say she is happy enough back here although the children of her marriage and the grandchildren remain in the USA as citizens by birth.She is now more or less penniless other than the NZ super and assistance from siblings who remained in NZ as contributors throughout.

      • KGB

        My brother went to the US at 22 after 5 years of paying tax. He is not a US Citizen, and must be back by 60 to qualify for Super.
        He hasn’t contributed here for 33 years. He is allowed to vote, and use our health system on visits sometimes timed for that purpose. If he returned tomorrow he could receive NZ welfare for life at 55.
        He has full custody of his only (late in life) child. His ex has every 2nd weekend, and will not allow him to leave the US. He’s stuck now.
        I love my brother, but he has not paid his way. The next generation should not have to fund his retirement.
        These are common stories of the big OE generation that stayed away. And why I am often so hard on whinging returning Kiwi on house affordability.
        Immigrant arrival at 55 is the only time I back WP.

        • OneTrack

          People who live offshore should not be able to vote in NZ elections.

  • Isherman

    Rachel Smalley is having a little cry this morning over the UK Labour MP Naz Shah being stood down, over posting comments that the State of Isreal should be moved into and inside the US…”problem solved”, as she says. Of course, this type of sentiment has become all too common in the Labour party of Jeremy Corbyn, and they have been forced to act.
    But Rachel thinks this amounts to shutting down of any criticism (legitimate or otherwise) of Israel, and that any criticism of Israel is automatically equated with anti-Semitism. She says…”Israel is a country it seems, that is above criticism”.
    Hardly Rachel, you will find, if you take your blinkers off for a moment, it’s probably the most criticised country anywhere. But worse that that, she is apparently ignorant of the country itself.
    “Is it because in New Zealand, we live in a secular state, so to us State and religion don’t go hand in hand” Newsflash deary…Israel is a secular state…always has been.
    She bemoans how she was criticised beyond anything she has experienced for her strong and vocal criticism of the IDF hitting a UN school in Gaza 2014, in which civilians including children were in fact killed.
    Well, nobody denies that, but Rachel, by admission of Hamas itself, and subsequent ‘investigations’ by the UNRWA, it was found and proved that Hamas do and did store weapons and sometimes fighters inside these UNRWA schools, and not just this one, but as many as seven that have been identified. Now, it might not have occurred to her that this makes them a military target, and further, such use of civilian infrastructure is itself…a war crime. So Rachel, spare me please your tears. We know where you sit on the issue, you are no better by describing the only fully democratic secular state in the region as a “killer regime”. I noticed you were in no hurry a couple of weeks back to laud the fact that Israel has invested a Muslim Arab (Israeli) as national deputy police chief, or any of the other civic realities that you would only find in open democratic secular societies. No, you only want to find what you consider the ‘bad’, and as such you are as unbalanced as anyone you criticise who see things differently, so spare me the tears.

    • johnandali

      It’s time for her to go. To her friends in Gaza and Iran and Lebanon. And there she should stay.

      • Isherman

        She wouldn’t cut it, not made of the stuff you that need in that neck of the woods. Better for her that she stays and concentrates on lightweight human interest fluff pieces and quasi celebrity gossip.

      • OneTrack

        She would look better in a burkha.

    • R&BAvenger

      Based on her logic, everyone should go back to where they came from, problem solved. If Muslims weren’t happy they should try life on the Moon. It’d make fro a much safer and happier planet Earth.

      • Isherman

        What Naz makes clear with the statement is that she believes the State, in its current, rightful and logical location is illegitimate. What she doesn’t make clear is if that ‘relocation’ also includes the 20% of Israel’s population that is non-Jewish, the majority of which is Arab. Do they get shoved off to Texas too?

      • kereru

        What has the man in the moon done to deserve that??

    • OneTrack

      Smalley takes all her talking points from her friends in the Green Party.

  • RightyTighty LeftyLoosey

    Has the editor of the Herald recently bought some investment properties?? One could believe that he is trying to drive up the house prices by all the scaremongering articles published in the last two weeks.

    • The Herald is funded by Harcourts. The amount of money Harcourts pour in as advertisers is so vast that they run daily “oh look at his property” native advertising, and when the market starts to slump, the Herald is happy to help boost it along some more.

  • hsvmaloo

    Knock me over with a feather duster. Expected TV1 to bang on about the latest poll and how damaging it was to National, and how this would be the start of the end of the current govt and is this the end for JK, but no, not even a murmer. Very weird.

    • Aucky

      TV1 has predicted that the end is nigh for the Nats too many times based on Roy Morgan polls only to be brought crashing to earth a few days later when Colmar Brunton or Digipoll bring some reality to the table.

  • Keyser Soze
    • JustanObserver

      I had that header come up this morning and thought it was some attempt by WO opposition to sway my thoughts …
      Didn’t read it.

  • JohnO

    Trump needs a further 287 delegates to get to the 1237 needed to win the republican presidential nomination. There are 622 still available. He needs 47% of the remaining candidates. It looks to be a done deal. Donald Trump will be republican candidate for president. He has 950 delegates now. One more big Islamic atrocity in western europe and/or the US and he is certain to be next US president. It is funny how his “far out” ideas of stopping 1 million illegal immigrants per year into the US and stopping Islamic immigration are now mainstream political policies.

    • Crowgirl

      His foreign policy speech this morning was interesting. He’s dialled back the rhetoric but is still managing to say things that will appeal. His foreign policy is that he’ll put the US and its interests first – can’t really go wrong with that. And he’s still the only candidate I’ve seen actually address issues that concern people. This morning was a cornucopia of issues all of which bug many people. He also jabbed NATO and climate change! If he keeps this up I’m beginning to think he might win!

  • kereru

    Dear Rachel,
    I would like to ask you why Israel is the Left’s favourite punching bag when it is the only democracy in the Middle East? Are you jealous of its many accomplishments and its prosperity? Do you realise that it is NOT about land, but about conquest? How about bothering to read the history of the Jews? You might discover that they have lived in the land (only far larger then) for around 3,500 years. Can you give one reason why Israel should be moved anywhere at all when they now live in a tiny percentage of their own land?

    Do you even want to hear the truth? The presence of a Jewish State, even though it occupies just one tenth of 1% of the landmass in the Middle East, is an aggravation to the Islamic nations around it. Perhaps you could take your eyes off Israel for one moment and assess the ‘great’ advances the Gazans have made since Israel pulled out of the territory. All they can think about is fighting.They didn’t do any better when the Egyptians controlled it either. Now why could that be? Here’s an idea, how about demanding that Hamas delete Article 13 from their Charter? It is nothing more than a Covenant for Israel’s destruction. Are we to conclude that you would support that?

    For starters, take a look at this comparison map and tell us with a straight face that Israel is the problem.


    To get you started, Rachel, learn about Israel’s 5000 year history in a few minutes:


    • Isherman

      I don’t accuse Rachel of genuine anti-Semitism, and I’ll admit I am undecided as to her views on the legitimacy of the State. That said, it is her ignorance, not only of the Jewish connection to the land, and the history that has led to its revival and ultimate nationhood over many many centuries, concluding with the Zionist ( in it’s twin aspects of Labour and Political Zionism) movement but her ignorance of the modern conflict post 1948. She appears to see it in overly simplistic terms, ill informed and uneducated terms. Put simply, she isn’t qualified to speak with any authority on the issue, and to the extend that most of us are also ‘amatuer’ commentators on the subject, a number of us, myself included, have had a very deep and longstanding interest in the topic, and as a result are in possession of a level of understanding that she is simply devoid of. I think it’s that more than anything else that annoys me about Smalley and many others, who’s knowledge of the topic is about as deep as a puddle, and just as murky.

    • dumbshit

      Just read a highlighted comment, on a web site, “you can criticise any state or regime in the world, with no consequences, except Israel.
      Not sure the French magazine staff would believe that now!

    • johnandali

      Her article today is a shocker. I have responded, asking whether she has ever thought about other parts of the world where people are openly oppressed? I can guarantee that it won’t be published.

  • twittertit

    So glad I moved out of West Auckland. Lincoln Road Upgrade (which is desperately needed), won’t start construction until April 2023. https://at.govt.nz/projects-roadworks/lincoln-road-upgrade/

    What’s the point of upgrading the Motorways if the local roads can’t handle the traffic accessing/leaving them? What a joke.

    • Sailor Sam

      But it will get a cycle way.
      By the time 2023 comes along, there will be no need to upgrade it, as most right thinking people will have left for pastures greener south of the Bombay Hills.

    • Nermal

      I remember when the latter half of Lincoln Rd was upgraded from metal to seal, a great improvement as it reduced the travel time from Massey to Auckland City to under an hour. God that makes me feel old!

  • Mark

    I see the train wreak that is AT ;) is moving to increase the cost of parking in the CBD,as they forecast.

    Now I am not well versed in these things but I am sure someone here knows more?
    As part of AT’s war on cars there have been no new carparking buildings built in I suspect the last 10 years?
    They have also stolen a lot more carparks than stated for cycle/bus lanes & this continues unabated. Queen St is now a blimming nightmare!! Just when high end shops started to gain traction.
    They divested themselves of the Cross St Krd carpark building to Wilsons who have done an excellent job keeping it mostly clear of ferals & no doubt increased the revenue.
    They are incompetent & an economic disaster for the City of Auckland.

    • Bazza63

      The fastest way to improve public transport would be to enact the following rules at AT. Only exception would be for Parking wardens that I classify as a necessary evil.
      1. No staff car, car parks or subsidized parking
      2. No use of Uber, Taxis etc to attend meetings
      3. All staff must travel to & from work on public transport
      And then roll this out thru the Council

      • OneTrack

        The mayor could set an example by taking the train. Oh, wait.