Ta Moko cartoon: Whaleoil reader is offended [guest post]

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I’m seriously offended, and as offence can only be taken, not given, I decided to sit and think about it.

I’m offended over the reaction from the Ta Moko cartoons depicting a little Maori boy beaten with visible bruising. Not the cartoon itself, it’s quite factual, and I maintain if it was depicting a little Pakeha boy, or an Asian boy, or even a Jewish boy, it would be okay, or those communities would accept it and move on even though statistically, they are 4 times less to be the subject of family violence than a Maori, or 3 times less than a PI child.

Naida Glavish is a prominent Maori woman, and holds a lot of Mana within Maori, she COULD be an effective change agent, if she stood up and championed change instead of taking offence. Or, could she be offended mainly as she has been the subject of things in Whaleoil previously? My belief is she really needs to sit down and look at the real problem, that the main group of people or communities committing these violent offences are still in DENIAL, and instead of accepting there is an issue and doing something about it, she and many like her run out and decide to take a fence. Surround themselves with a shield, ignore, bury their heads and claim there is nothing wrong, and don’t you dare single out my community/culture, that’s racist. I wonder how many of the abused children, the ones who were killed, do they think its racist, was their abuse and murder racist?   

I’m also offended by the Human Rights (Wrongs) commission, they are simply adding fuel to the fire, instead of coming out with the truth the rest of NZers already know and understand, and what is a massive thorn in NZ’s side on the international stage, they often side with the offended, and give them another reason to ignore the stats, the violence and the abuse of children. By siding with the perpetually offended, they are enabling the very abuse and violence that is so deeply rooted in those communities and cultures.    

When you break it down, the role of the Human Rights Commission is to set and to keep standards for ALL Kiwis, all means ALL, not just the leaders or the offended from certain communities or cultures, so I ask the Human Rights Commission, who stood up for the following children’s human rights, and who will stand up for the other kids who are being violently abused, murdered, deprived, and so on, who will stand up for their human rights, as currently, their parents and caregivers and collective communities are not, they seem to have adopted a silence on domestic violence, and especially of violence against children:

The Kahui twins

Nia Glassie

Cheyenne Petersen    

Jyniah Mary Te Awa     

Tahani Mahomet       

Dylan Rimoni,        

Riley Justin Osborne,      

Kash Meshetti McKinnon,     

Jacqui Petersen-Davis,     

Karl Richard Arch Perigo-Check,     

Seini Unaloto Ikamanu,     

Cezar Taylor ,     

Sahara Jayde Koro-Baker,     

Serenity Jay Sott-Dennington’s,   

Terepo Taura-Griffiths’       

James Joseph Ruhe Lawrence,      

Hinekawa Topia,     

Leilane Mary Jane Lotonu’u-Lorigan,     

Raynar-Lee Soljar Thompson-Hatley,     

Atreyu Taylor-Matene,    

Cassius Takiari’s,      

Soul Mathew Turany,     

Aaliyah Ashlyn Chand,     

Leith Allen Hutchison,  

Leon Jayet-Cole,     

Gracie-May McSorley,    

Ihaka Paora Braxton Stokes,     

Maggie Renee Watson ,     

Moko Sayviah Rangitoheriri,     

Matiu Wereta ,    

Jyniah TeAwa,    

Hohepa Tonga Rimoni,  

Duawayne Pailegutu

 

It’s sickening writing this and typing the kids names out, thinking, someone in each of these young person’s lives KNEW they were the subject of violence and remained silent, they deserve condemnation, the communities that they live in deserve condemnation, which is why I come back to: When will the communities with the WORST stats, the ones who keep killing and abusing their kids take action, accept responsibility, and start to STOP the violence and killing instead of being offended when the obvious is pointed out.   

Naida, you have an opportunity to get together with others, and make a stand to stop the violence and killing of kids in your community, or continue taking offence at anyone who tells it like it is.    

To the Human Rights Commission – Where were you when each of these children, and thousands more were being abused, what about their rights as human beings, small humans admittedly, but still humans, who is looking after their rights?  Is it you, or will you continue to assist the outraged instead of calling for the free and open discussion of the problems based on the FACTS before us. Are you enablers, silencers of the facts, or will you call out the abuse, you can’t sit on all fences, it just perpetuates the issue.

 

– Dave

 


NB:   I found this, I wonder how long before a complaint is made, the picture is of a Maori man holding a baby, under the heading “Story: Child Abuse”. Oh the outrage, why have a picture of a Maori man holding a baby with the title “Child Abuse”, but then again, it’s from TeAra, the National Museum, or is it only an outrage when a blogger does it, because they have written about you  before, and you don’t like them Naida?    

http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/child-abuse    

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  • Hakaru

    Another post that should be transmitted to all of New Zealand by whatever means necessary. One of the best comments I have ever seen. Well done Dave.

  • sarahmw

    Yes where are all the concerned maori ? Too busy being offended. Here’s an idea how about being offended and ashamed with what is a sadly continuing occurrence with your people. Stand up show mana and shame your people into action. How pathetically sad that these poor wee souls don’t even register, just your sickening ignorance.

  • KGB

    Very well said Dave.
    For us as a society to fix the horror we must first have an honest conversation. Continued tip-toeing around the issue will achieve nothing.

  • localnews

    Whenever i see how successful the lobbying by the left is, in influencing our government I wonder if the other side should lobby for positive change. Maybe the hrc called out for their disconnect from the world we live in.
    I remember when Susan devoy was appointed, Michael Laws being delighted that a normal person had been given the job, but worried that the crazies in the office would brainwash her. She has turned out to be the maddest of all in that job so far which is disappointing but not surprising.
    They just don’t seem to operate in the real world, and normal people ignore them rather than criticising.

  • kereru

    If you’re not part of the solution you’re part of the problem. Step down all those who are so focused on themselves, and their tender sensibilities, that their first reaction is to lash out at the raw truth. Admit it – you don’t care one iota about the plight of your little ones and should put up or shut up – you are not fit for purpose. Resign your positions and give those who really DO care, and are intent on finding a solution, a chance to make a difference. The general public is sick to death of your prevaricating and we resent our taxes being spent on your bloated salaries …/rant off

  • Eiselmann

    Maori such as Naida Glavish constantly tell us that we should let Maori solve issues within the Maori population , that the Pakeha system doesn’t work for Maori(of course pakeha funding to maori elites is never rejected).

    Well child abuse effects all races, all communities, all incomes, all professions or lack thereof, its something that must be dealt no matter where its found. And Maori are massively over representitive both as children, babies and of course as the abusers. You should be offended by that Naida.

    So heres the opportunity for Maori to take Maori abuseres to task , to solve this problem damaging maori children…find a maori solution , find one from the cookie monster if you like, I don’t care.

    Don’t take offense at the cartoon…..make it irrelevant.

  • Gazza

    I am with Dave on this…I am also offended! What really got me was the list, I got to the end and then wondered sadly that I bet that the list is incomplete…

  • David Kerr

    Remove the kids, charge them with offenses, or offer $10000 for parental sterilisation (both)

    • Florrie Bunda

      Certainly remove these kids from the hell holes they live in. Charge those responsible with long sentences with no early release for ‘good’ behaviour, but early release will be given after serving x amount of years if they agree to sterilisation. Chucking a good amount of money at these mongrels is not part of the answer as more than likely it will be spent mostly on drugs and alcohol thus creating more problems.

  • Wheninrome

    She should stop arguing with Titiwai over who is the “maori women’s leader” in the north and who has the right to lead the PM onto the Marae and maybe join with her and sort the problem out. Titiwai and her lot have huge knowledge of “beating” so she could give words of wisdom.

  • Curly1952

    Great summation Dave. Realty should be more effective than outrage.
    Having said that I am very outraged because Naida Glavish is outraged over the wrong thing!!

  • Dreadnaught

    Freedom of choice/ Steps to be “Offended”.

    Step One. Turn on you internet capable device.

    Step Two. Search/Select “Whaleoil”

    Step Three. Search/ Select “Ta Moko” post

    Step Three. View “Cartoon”

    Step Four. Decide this item is directed at you.

    Step Five. Take offence.

    I have a quick look around the internet/world and found it very easy to find things that I could take offence to.

    In these situation I follow this procedure:

    Step One. Freedom of choice.(Apply to steps 1 – 5)

    Problem solved.

    Have those individuals who are offended had their Freedom of choice has been removed?
    Devo wrote the song!

  • JEL51

    For those new to this site looking for reasons to become more offended, more angry, go back and read all that has been written around/about this cartoon which was only published on this blog last week.
    Then think about what Dave says above.
    We are all ashamed.
    We all care.
    It has to stop today.
    So instead of the wasted emotion being offended or angry, go put your energies into something positive to bring about the change.

  • Sagacious Blonde

    Hail-Sage McClutchie (September 27, 2009) is missing from that list.
    Whanau closed around the offender/s and no-one was ever held to account.

    Looking at that list, Silly First Name Syndrome needs to be a marker for CYFs to get involved from birth.

    • Dave

      Apologies there some unintentional omissions, it was copied from other lists and articles, and there are possibly more, plus if we included all of the seriously injured, it would need a week or so of blog articles. Happy for any more to be added though.

      However, my fear remains, it would not matter if there was another 100 names on the list or even 500 more. The communities with the worst stats would still shrug it off, be offended, claim racism and deflect any notion they need to accept responsibility, whilst the abuse of children continues.

      • IKIDUNOT

        Thank you sir for your excellent, thought provoking blog!

  • Doc45

    That’s a great post PC. One of the most thought provoking and accurate I have read. Needs more exposure.

  • Radvad

    There is probably an even greater issue that is carefully avoided. Regardless of race, how many dead kids were in the “care” of mum and her latest boyfriend rather than both natural parents?
    Perhaps WO and Boom Slang could also tackle that one.

  • Radvad

    The other issue not generally addressed is how many of those kids live in welfare dependent homes?
    There is plenty of material here for debate, apart from the racial aspect, that is not politically correct to mention.

  • Jude

    Very well written Dave and I hope this is read by a wide range of people and reflected on.
    Sadly I think those who would benefit from these words will rather than reflect ,will choose to be offended by them.
    Some people just cannot be helped.

  • JC

    Along with plenty of other candidates publicity about child abuse is simple virtue signalling, ie telling other people how awful it is and its all your fault and I’m here to help you recognise your guilt.

    The publicity is *not* about fixing the problem but apportioning guilt to the whole of society as well as a secondary task of stymieing any attempts to fix the problem.

    Here are some of the initiatives taken to keep child abuse going..

    1. Fiercely resist any attempt to remove the child from the dysfunctional family.
    2. If this isn’t possible promote sending the child to another part of the wider dysfunctional family.
    3. Oppose Charter schools because they can reduce poverty and future family dysfunction.
    4. Blame poor outcomes on the police, social workers and conservative govts.
    5. Abuse and ridicule anyone who identifies the abusers.
    6.Abuse and ridicule anyone promoting a targeted solution.

    Social welfare is big business and outside the dedicated professionals there’s plenty of scope for the charlatans and hangers on to make a buck and virtue signal. If you kill off child abuse you kill a lot of associated jobs down the track.

    JC

  • Cadwallader

    For years (about the last 40) we’ve been told to recognise maori culture and been forced to support it through taxation. If it is part of maori culture to subvert justice by having the whanau clam-up to protect those who murder children then all the cartoon does is to recognise this part of maori culture. I have always been dubious to apply the word “culture” to pre-European habitation of NZ. If a descent into barbarism and lack of aspiration is culture then I am wrong.

  • sandalwood789

    We *know* (and have known for decades) that Maori are over-represented in the child-abuse statistics. This is a *fact*.
    The cartoon is merely drawing attention to that *fact*.

    Facts are *never* racist, by definition. They are the *truth*, plain and simple.
    Oh sure, people can be *offended* by facts but that is their problem.
    The truth hurts.

    Why do we have government organisations like HRC and RRC wasting tens of millions of dollars wagging their fingers at us when the *truth* is mentioned?

  • Max Rennie

    You could add to the list of names all the kids of abusive families who committed suicide. Oh that’s right, we’re not allowed to mention them are we.

    • TL W

      Do you think some Maori kids kill themselves because they get nothing but negativity from society?

  • Michelle

    Very well written and thought provoking, pity the Media party don’t have the stones to publish comments like yours and other below

    Sadly Naida Glavish and her ilk are the biggest problem and their obstructive behaviour is allowing more Maori children to be abused daily
    If Maori elders stood up and admitted it is a Maori problem and started pointing out to their people to report abuse and bring the perpetrators to justice
    Not just turn up on tv but in the marae and daily life, plenty of people know what is happening in their families but it has become ingrained as a norm and Maori need to change it

    Then you might regain your mana and gain respect of the NZ public, until then you will be quietly scorned for allowing Maori children to be abused, beaten to a pulp and killed

    By casting this as a NZ problem you are deflecting it from being the Maori problem that needs addressing by Maori

    More money is not going to help either, that makes it more of a problem because too many are chasing the money and not fixing the problem

    • Geoff K

      But that is not Maori justice and we have traumatised by cololnisation.

      • Michelle

        And while they keep up that cracked record whine then nothing will change
        Until they look forward and not back they will not progress and these poor children will keep being beaten and used as slaves

        What is needed is a place you can phone if you suspect children being mistreated because right now who do you call if you suspect something is not right?

        if you saw a child next door or in your area covered in bruises and looking neglected, if you could phone up someone, not the police, and get the family checked out then some progress may be made in a quiet way because it could be nothing wrong

        Sometimes kids do have bruises, one of mine seemed to manage to have a bruises on them regularly and so did others in our area but these abused kids, l am sure people are talking about them
        If it was easier to report then maybe it might be a start

      • Raibert

        It must have been a huge upheaval for their “culture” to have had to leave Polynesia 6 – 7 centuries ago and colonise NZ. This upheaval has traumatised Maori so much that they are forced to abuse their children is very difficult to believe. Oh sorry, you mean the coming of the Europeans, bringing English law and justice along with the morals and ethics of the time has caused this trauma.

        • TL W

          Actually most children that have been murdered in this country have been killed by white males.

      • Michelle

        l grew up with Maori and l had great respect for them till someone said “Let’s go back” or some such words and l watched the people we grew up with and thought of as equals suddenly thought they were better than us and waited for the gravy train
        They just declined from then on and l have watched the demise of once proud people to ones with their hands out and have lost their mana

    • TL W

      If you researched a little more before your pompous judgements Michelle you might discover that white men have killed more kids in this country that Maori men and white females have murdered children three more times than Maori women. You actually just sound like a blithering racist.

  • taxpayer
  • spanishbride

    A left wing blog is so offended by BoomSlang’s cartoon that they have given it more oxygen by publishing it. Now their left wing readership can enjoy being outraged together.

    “it is sickening that something so despicable can be published in NZ” rants the writer, while PUBLISHING the cartoon in New Zealand

    • Dave

      The left wing blog /s are simply doing a “Naida”. Oh we are outraged, how dare you. For them it’s not the tone of the article, or the cartoon, it’s anything to get a hit on this fine blog! As I am sure it was with Naida. Had she been offended with the tone of the article she would have also laid a complaint over the picture used in the TeAwa article, and as that really calls out Maori, where is the outrage from the Left Wing Blogger or Naida. Oh yes, it’s not the issue, it’s all about get WO.

    • sheppy

      Absolute genius, if brains were dynamite they’d not have enough to solicite a pop, let alone a bang!
      Enjoy the outrage leftests, it seems to be what you live for

      • sheppy

        Thinking about this further I wonder if just ONCE those being outraged could channel that outrage away from shooting the messenger and instead get outraged enough to CONFRONT THE PROBLEM.
        If there wasn’t a problem with people damaging their kids, there wouldn’t be a cartoon to get upset about

  • Chris Fleming

    What happens when we are offended :

    http://www.boreme.com/posting.php?id=29555#.Vzenv1R97IU

  • Valid Point

    The cartoon addresses a particular group much the same ss many government ads do. Stoners driving cars. Young men drink driving. A middle aged woman being caught out by new drink driving limits. Pasifika women encouraging each other to have cervical tests.

    The question for the cartoonist is, what was his intent? If it was to raise genuine concern and create change then fine. If not, then there is a problem.

    Unfortunately for the cartoonist – unlike all the ads mentioned above – there is no call to action to reinforce the message. But that’s the medium. It requires more thought than an equally evocative ad on television.

    • Dave

      The cartoon itself does not, much like watching one of the TV adverts you refer to with the sound off. However, a reasonable person would not watch a TV advert with the sound off and expect to get the full message, nor would a reasonable person expect to get the full message by just glancing at a cartoon, in this case, clearly the cartoon was to go with a story, and that contained the message. The issue is today, people glance and don’t get the full story and take offence, had they done as any reasonable person would do, and consider the cartoon / image with the full article and text, then they would find it far more difficult to be offended. Those people champion being offended rather than truely informed, as sometimes – the raw truth HURTS.

    • Paul Marsden

      I think you are being obtuse. The cartoon invokes raw emotion about the elephant in the room regarding child abuse in NZ, as evidenced by the controversy/reaction, it has already stirred up. As the saying goes..’ a picture is worth a thousand words’ The cartoon has done a brilliant job. Well done.

      • Valid Point

        What a stupid response. I raise questions I don’t know the answers too (only the cartoonist really knows that) and provide supporting examples to illustrate that. You accuse me of being obtuse. Then use an aged cliche.

        At least provide some original thought to the comments.

    • Miss Phit

      Use the Journo defence. “It was done for the greater good” and has created debate which will elevate the problem.

    • TL W

      If the cartoon had any truth to it, it would be a cartoon about white males killing kids in nz, because they actually do kill the most.

  • Left Right Out

    It’s not the cartoon that offends me…. nor is it that advertising material is produced that I find offensive….. it is the fact that the NEED to produce this sort of thing to remind people you can’t hit a kid or shake a kid.

    Has society degenerated so mach that there is a NEED to produce cartoons or adverts to remind society it is not OK? that is the most offensive part of all of this

  • Tiger

    “The truth is that which works” – John Dewey. If the cartoon has worked and people are talking about the stats – and the denial of the stats – then the truth is that the cartoon has worked. Boomslang & WO = job done.

    • TL W

      The cartoon has done nothing but offend…hurt and spread misinformation and bigotry. White males are the number one killers of children in New Zealand.

  • Miss Phit

    Like others here (and amoung my offline friends), I find these ongoing misproportional deaths disgusting. Not that I am in any way saying any deaths of innocent children is okay, but this level is intolerable and points to a real problem within this part of society.

    The only way it can be solved is if those within this part of society stand up and say enough. The clouds of misstruths and allegations that are put up about the families but the families serve nothing but to hide the real offenders and protect them from punishment.

    When will Maoridom (there I said it) stand up and say enough is enough!
    When will Maori mothers and aunties, sisters and cousins stand up and say enough is enough. Obviously the men cant be trusted to do something about it as evidenced by the silent naval gazing currently going on amongst the “respected leaders”.

    When will Whanau stand up against their Mokopuna being killed. These kids are their future and how are they treated? These monsters that they allow to hide in their midst, knowing fully who and what they are, are killing their babies. Even going so far as to keep them hidden from justice. Their allegiance is with the scumbags, not the victims and that is so wrong.

    And yet silence. But if the matter is raised by someone outside their ranks it is instantly ridiculed as being racist and colonial blah blah blah. Never an answer or even a resolution to get this abomination of statistics back to a still sickening “normal level”.

    There are so many statistics showing an abnormal levels of offending when compared to other ethnic/racial groups and yet….Silence or excuses about post colonial oppression, the system is against them, no jobs, no enough schooling, not enough support for “tribal justice programs, etc.

    Wake up and smell the flowers you are placing on the graves of your little treasures. Better you keep the kids safe and buried the offenders. But you wont. More kids will die, maybe even at the hands of people that you “knew would do this one day” and all the while you sit and watch and blame everyone else.

    Im sorry If I have offended anyone but maybe that offence is due to the fact that you know these cartoons and words of condemnation from everyone but you are true.

    • Union Jack

      The reason you are not hearing any serious complaints is because Maori are killing Maori.
      If the killers were white caregivers then it would be a totally different story.

    • TL W

      Actually I just looked at 197 child murders and the main killer of NZ children are white males, the second is Maori males and white women have killed three more times than Maori women. I took the time to check my facts here if you wish to do the same :http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/74268361/faces-of-innocents-these-are-the-kids-weve-lost

      • Miss Phit

        Okay, Ill check it out.

        How do they measure up proportional to population?

        • TL W

          Probably not great but if you are going to get into that, then maybe a lot of other factors should be thrown in.

      • Miss Phit

        Cheers for that link. Ill have a look.

  • anniem

    Don’t forget James Whakaruru. A lot of SFNS there as well. Naida Glavish, truth hurts, toughen up.

  • TL W

    Well, I didn’t like the cartoon and I didn’t like what people were saying. It just didn’t add up with what I have experienced or seen with my own eyes. So I went to this article: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/74268361/faces-of-innocents-these-are-the-kids-weve-lost and I looked at the race and sex of the killers.
    On one row there were nine deaths by drowning granted name suppression, just listed as Females charged with manslaughter, I know one of them was the drowning of a toddler in the bath while her white mother was outside texting and I assumed some of the others could have been bath drownings where the judge decided it was manslaughter due to parental negligence. There were perhaps half a dozen deaths where it was hard to find whether the male perpetrator was Maori or Paheka, but certainly some that I counted as Maori where the perpetrator looked at least half Pakeha as well.
    This is what I counted…there were a few deaths that had more than one person charged…such as Nia Glassie. There was one death by an Arabian man, not sure which country I just guessed Arabian by his name.One manslaughter by a visiting Mexican woman. Three children were killed by Asian men, two children died at the hands of Indian women, also two were killed by Indian men. Thirty-six deaths were either listed as unknown or no charge, these included both Maori and Pakeha children. Four children were killed by Pacific Island women and five by Pacific Island men. Maori females killed children twenty-three times. , Thirty six Maori men killed children. White females killed twenty seven children and White males killed fifty one.
    If anyone wants to take the time out to count for themselves before they make prejudiced judgements be my guest. It was hard to decide whether a few males were Maori or Paheka due to there being no photo’s, but there wasn’t enough to make Maori top white males as the number one killer of children in New Zealand.
    I’ll be pleasantly surprised if you publish this, perhaps some may see the unfairness and insensitivity of that cartoon. I would laugh to see the reaction of some of this blogs supporters if there were cartoons depicting all white men as child abusers. Another thing….has anyone here ever noticed that men who kill and also use drugs or have no or low income are seen as “bad” but men who kill from better socio- economic backgrounds are seen as mentally ill. White women who kill infants are seen as having post-natal depression or psychoses but Maori women who kill are just “bad” people. White middle class women who have white middle class murderer husbands are “victims” but women from lower socio-economic backgrounds or brown-skinned whose children are murdered by their partners are seen to have made “bad choices”.

    • TL W

      Oh come on someone a comment? an apology? Heres hoping some of you are counting for yourselves.

      • Union Jack

        If you compare the number of Maori killers to their % of population makeup the cartoon is accurate.
        Just like if you do a head count of prisoners I’m sure the total of whites is more than Maori but if you compare it to the % of population then the picture is very different.
        No apologies required.

        • TL W

          I was waiting for that one.Thats because a higher proportion of Maori live in poverty due to systemic racism. Maori are disproportionately high in child abuse statistics as due to the common misconception in NZ that violence is cultural among Maori, Maori children are more likely to be referred to CYFs by teachers, doctors, nurses, neighbours than pakeha or middle class children showing the same or even worse signs of abuse. CYFs have said there is a huge amount of white middle class child abuse not being reported.

          • Uncle Bully

            There is no excuse for killing kids, yet you seem to be accepting of it. Why?

          • TL W

            No I’m not accepting of it. I do believe a lot of it comes from people in a state of despair and illness and that if we just make it a problem of another race, or culture or gender we separate ourselves from it and don’t help.

          • Union Jack

            Probably two of the main factors which would be associated with most of these deaths are:
            1.Family on social welfare
            2.The non presence of one or both biological parents
            So maybe if we start addressing these no go areas we might start getting to the root causes of the dysfunction which leads to these deaths.

          • TL W

            I totally agree. Although sadly there were children who did have both parents and died anyway. Don’t forget that many women and children are murdered after leaving their violent spouse. I think that the social stigma and bad mouthing of single mothers by society and in the media forces many women to stay with or take up with unsuitable or worst case-violent men. I think the stigma passes on to their children and society isolates them with poverty and worthlessness. I think a lot of men have no respect for single mothers or their children. If it was easier for women to continue their educations after having children and people were just nicer about single mothers the violence would be more than halved.

          • Union Jack

            Unfortunately many of these single Mums have multiple children to different fathers and don’t see anything wrong with this so you can’t really expect society to respect you if you don’t even respect yourself.

          • TL W

            Really? I think that’s a bit of a myth. I lived in a low income area for 24 years and I just don’t know any actual real life people who pop out kids to heaps of men.I’ve met one or two women like that but they were supported by whichever man they were with at the time. Not on benefits.

          • Union Jack

            That is all pure speculation and opinion not fact.

          • TL W

            I did read that in an article. I will try and find it for you.

        • TL W

          Also I have seen first hand white young men being let off crime as “the punishment exceeds the crime”. Eg- white boy slanging weed gets let off because it was just recreational and just this once and would ruin his potential filled life. Brown kid with same amount- drug dealer go to boys home.

          • Dave

            So how about the maori and PI youth being let off charges for no drivers license in South Auckland. No white boys involved in that.

        • Dave

          Not quite, Maori make up 51% of male prisoners in NZ (2013 from memory) but the same stat says only 15% of the population, its even worse.

      • Uncle Bully

        I don’t think anyone is denying that some white males are child killers. It’s sad there are so many kids being killed of whatever ethnicity. What is most evident and obvious in this whole debate about the cartoon, are the screams of racism by maoridom, intended to deflect attention away from the fact that such a high proportion of the kids killed are maori, a proportion much greater than their representation in the general population. Why won’t maori acknowledge and accept there is a grave problem in their midst? Why don’t they want to do anything about it? Much easier to blame others, isn’t it?

        • TL W

          Well I’m a Pakeha and that cartoon was racist, offensive and cruel. Also a few of those Maori kids were killed by Pakeha men. You can pick and choose stats. Out of that list of 197 murdered children 78 were killed by white people and only 59 by Maori people. Why does everyone blip over the fact that there are so many white people killing kids? Why are there proportionately more Maori getting lower quality health care, less attention from school teachers, less pay, lower quality housing? Its called racism and you are part of it.
          ,

          • Uncle Bully

            Sorry, I have to disagree with you. The cartoon was not racist nor cruel. It may have been offensive to you, but that’s for you to work through yourself. As for your claims of maori disadvantage, everyone makes personal choices in life that affects their quality of life. As I understand, maori are more likely to be smokers than non-maori. If that affects their health, and necessitates greater healthcare requirements, then whose fault is that? Not mine. Their choice, their consequences.
            As for educational opportunities, I would suggest their participation in charter schools, which have been shown to provide better outcomes for the disadvantaged of whatever ethnic background. Also, perhaps if some maori parents paid more attention to their kids’ educations, and enforced homework, and encouraged reading and study at home, there would be better vocational outcomes available for them.

          • TL W

            I only know a couple of white people who smoke these days and a cpl of close family members who have had traumatic lives and some subsequent mental illness. This is a beautiful and very good speech on understanding addiction and it cover why some indigenous races suffer from it. It would explain to you a few of the behaviours you think are lacking in Maori too. My Maori friends gave up smoking at the same time as me for the same reasons. We couldn’t buy cigarettes and also provide for our kids and we stopped.
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mpbBAQvrKM

          • Dave

            I have an old saying about background, education and opportunity, and its relevant to what you are saying. We are all born naked and screaming, what happens after that is really up to our caregivers / parents and the community we are brought up in. At birth, we are all equal! (excluding any disabilities)

          • TL W

            There is one more thing I’d like to add here and that is to suggest that people read Ian Wishart’s book Breaking Silence about the Kahui twins. I read it and whilst it didn’t particularly warm me to either of the twins parents, I believe the twins death’s were largely caused by resuscitation from sleep apnoea in hospital combined with a neglect from Chris. It also tells us of the medical similarity between Sudden Infant Death Syndrome and Shaken Baby Syndrome and left me wondering about how much prejudice is involved with diagnoses in such cases.

          • Dave

            So now you’re a pediatric pathologist, my goodness. Best to stick to the known facts than fascinations Next you will claim little green men did it after their space ship landed nearby.

          • TL W

            Does mean you are judge, jury, parenting expert, race expert and moral police then? Grow up. I didn’t imply that, I just suggested reading the book.

      • TL W

        Well I just hope that someone else has a look through that page, I may have got one or two wrong and would happily be corrected. I had no idea previously that so many white people in NZ had killed children. Totally shameful all around.

    • Miss Phit

      I dont like the fact that kids are being killed by anyone, but the fact still stands that these kids are dead whether by a male of female, of any race. Lets not forget that proprotionally these figures are still not acceptable.

      How did you come to the origin of the killers? By a picture, or by their names, or by court documents listing heritage? Im not going to dispute your “findings” (cant be assed to be honest), but I respect your right to be offended and speak up about it.

      For people to find offence at a drawing instead of the story behind the drawing to me is crazy. I dislike the fact that most of the adverts on TV portray the bad guys as white men (drinking adverts/drug adverts) but I dont get all prissy about it. I look at what the message is and make sure it sinks in.

      Maybe the outrage will serve a purpose.

      Oh and I wont apologise for my comments. I firmly believe that no one should be killing their kids.

    • Michelle

      Whangarei court this last couple of weeks
      2 young girls raped and other sexual assaults in 2 separate cases

      Any harm to children by any person no matter of race, male or female, is not acceptable, ever

      • TL W

        True rape is terrible and rife in middle class and religious NZ…look at the Brethren who are now coming out as abusers, That cult that was on tv…why aren’t CYFs all over them?

    • Dave

      Good comment, but what you are missing, is that Maori are 15 to 16% of all New Zealanders. This puts the issue into perspective, that is why a Maori child is four times more likely to be killed or very seriously injured than all other children, and PI children are three times as likely to be killed or injured at the hands of family or caregivers. if the numbers of Maori or and PI children killed or injured even equals the number of other New Zealanders, there is the entire issue.

      • TL W

        I only saw 9 PI child killers on that list. Still there were 36 Maori men killers and 51 white. 51 white men with all their kiwi privileges is SHOCKING! I’m sorry, but its pretty obvious and often said that poverty is one the most common factors in child abuse and Maori are more affected by poverty. I lived near Maori, PI and white kids for 24yrs, the white kids got jobs, loans, houses, flats with ease and entitlement and the Maori kids who were in that case the better behaved got knocked back for everything. You can’t tell me otherwise because I saw it with my own two eyes.

  • Dave

    No, sorry thats not good enough. As I said above we are all born naked and screaming, what happens after that is up to our parents and the communities we are raised in. If they can’t afford it, WHY, they didn’t pay attention at school, Or was it their parents???? And, when did they realise they were behind.

    If they can’t afford it, Do Not Drive. No excuses sorry, you are the apologist, and choose to ignore facts and choose which ones you want to follow.

    • TL W

      I don’t see how “should have” ever fixes now. No point in saying it. Like I said white kids get let off the rules all the time. You are the one with one set for some and not the other.

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