Two Muslim women debate the Burka

 


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  • oldmanNZ

    there she goes…”human rights to ear a full face veil”

    its my choice to walk down queen street naked, but its illegal, where my human rights.

    its my human rights to wear a full face ski mask , but im banned from going into banks.

    if she wants to go practice where her human rights is accepted, go to that country.

  • Johnno

    Like patio umbrellas….

    • Johnno

      And because……

  • Greg
  • Greg

    I saw this woman and told her she had three beautiful children.

    She didn’t have to get all ticked off at me, it was an honest mistake.

    I took this photo.

    http://jokes.conservativepapers.com/files/2012/07/hajib-mom-and-three-children.jpg

  • Nige.

    There’s a bit of Stockholm syndrome going on there I think

  • thesilentmajority

    I believe in choice as long as no one else is hurt by it. So if that woman in France wants to wear the burqua and it truly is her choice , I find that hard to argue. Apart from when face ID is needed and other such situations. My biggest concern with all things Islam as it relates to women is that there are many millions of women in the world who do not have free choice, they are forced to follow Islam including wearing the burqua, being married off young against their will, being genitally mutilated against their will.. and the list goes on. These are the things that we should be most focused on in my opinion.

    • Abdullah

      1. Islam is very clear – you cannot marry any women without the bride saying yes.

      2. Marrying at young age and forced marriage is a cultural practise. It is not something that Islam ordered you to do. You will find that non-Muslims from this culture will have the same practise. I also would like to point out that you can legally get married in United States as young as 13 or even younger than that with the parent’s permission. I have not met any muslims who married younger than 20 yrs old.

      3. Female genital mutilation is also a cultural practise – In fact those horrid practise is against the teaching of Islam.

      “Female Genital Mutilation occurs in non-Muslim societies in Africa and is practiced by Christians, Muslims and Animists alike. In Egypt, where perhaps 97 percent of girls suffer genital mutilation, both Christian Copts and Muslims are complicit.”

      Have a good night :-)

      • 10cents

        But this assumes that women have some say in the matter, and as you know, in many muslim countries (I have worked for 25 years in many middle east and south asian countries) the reality is that women simply do not get the same legal rights as men no matter what the korean says. For it to be suggested that a woman can simply refuse to wear the veil, or to live in the same manner as a man is just not reality. Islam absolutely oppresses women. Unfortunately as much through a paucity of education that persists in many of these countries.

        In western countries, at least muslim women have the benefit of a justice system that allows them to live as individuals, but they are still captive to the pressures of their immediate family and community.

        • Abdullah

          Hi 10cents, that is interesting. Did you ever spend time with the average muslim and non-muslim women while you were in these countries? Or do you mostly hang around with the expats?

          The fact that you said “Islam absolutely oppresses women”, it shows your limited knowledge of Islam. You have to differentiate/separate between the culture and what Islam teach their follower. You will be surprised to find that what is happening with this women also happen in a non-Muslim family.

          If you are truthful, learn Islam from the source before you judge it. After that, compare what you have learnt from the source and those who are anti-Islam. Judge it fair and square.

          One more thing, in relations to this video, the French always talk up about the freedom of their women. The recent revelation how the French politicians treat their women counterparts is anything but disgusting. It was after many years before those women have the courage to speak up. For goodness sake, if their women leaders are treated like that, I am not surprised how they treat their average women.

          Be just and be fair. Have a good weekend.

          • 10cents

            Zero time with the expats, and virtually all the time in the villages. I see Islam for what it is, and I dont differentiate between the letter of the Koran and the culture of Islam. It is a common defence of Islam that ‘it isnt written in the koran’. That may be true but the reality of life for muslim women in these countries is bad for the men and dire for the women.

            Women have had a bad time in many cultures, including our own, but at least we are moving towards improving things. You know I can tell many stories of so called honor killings, kitchen burnings or stonings for being unlucky enough to be raped, so be careful not to through the first stone when you voice disgust for the french treatment of women eh. Do you think it is an improvement for women in Germany needing to be told to dress more modestly (by German politicians) to not upset or invite attack by their recent muslim immigrant population? Is that acceptable? Or public swimming pools now moving back to segregated male and female days?

            I try to be fair and honest, but Islam needs to be honest and fair about its failings as well.

          • Abdullah

            Ok I rest my case because:

            1. You said you do not differentiate between Koran and ‘Islamic culture’. Those two are the same thing…. isn’t it?

            2. Then you give examples of “kitchen” burnings, stoning, rape etc. These are the common points when someone who hates Islam cannot intellectually pinpoint the so called error in Islam. Most I met resorted to these points because they do not understand.

            3. Honor killings is a cultural practise that has nothing to do with Islam. It is being practised in certain culture. Do you really spend time in South Asia? It sounded to me you either chose to disregard fact or you don’t understand this issue at all.

            I’m not here to defend Islam, because the truth will always prevail. Islam is being accepted more and more despite the negativity in the media. Those who search for the truth will find it.

            I wish you all the best & have a great day.

          • 10cents

            The things you point to happen within the culture of Islam. If you are honest with yourself you will acknowledge that they do. I dont think the daughter drowning at the bottom of the pool cares if she is there because of the word of the koran or the culture of Islam. Do you? Without islam, she wouldn’t be there.

            It is easy to brush off criticism by labeling me as a muslim hater or uneducated – These are defenses used to avoid confronting the truth.

            Europe has now started taking steps towards reversing 200 years of progress in the equal rights of women and men in order to accommodate islam. Do you support this? If you don’t support it, which are you against? The Culture or the koran?

            Again, if it is the culture or the koran that drives it – I’m not interested. They both feed off each other.

          • johnandali

            So if honour killings have nothing to do with Islam, why are they not condemned in mosques throughout the world? If you search for the truth in Islam, something nasty might just happen to you. We have a saying in the West. Sometimes, the truth hurts.

          • Abdullah

            Get in touch with me and I will bring you to every Mosque in Auckland. You can hear from the scholars if you don’t believe me.

            https://youtu.be/E9rB6LWt7eo

          • Nige.

            That doesn’t answer the question and deliberately diverts the subject.

      • johnandali

        But we’re told that the husbands are chosen, not by the woman (or young girl), but by the family. And we hear instances of women (and girls) who refuse to marry the chosen man (often a much older man), and they are severely punished for this. So what’s the truth? What are the facts? I can’t believe it’s cultural, as Mohammed himself married a child. And if female genital mutilation is against the teachings of islam, I have yet to hear of any imam in any mosque who speaks up against it. I don’t like white-washes. I would rather see what’s actually going on. But I do agree on one point you make. There is no such thing as a perfect culture, but when some cultures force their people into absolute unquestioning obedience under threat of death, those cultures have no place in western democracies. Or anywhere.

        • Abdullah

          You can choose what you want to believe but the truth is out there. All you have to do is have an open mind and spare some time for reading. Read what muslims read. Speak and ask muslims around you. Judge it for yourself.

          This is my theme to every reply here. Whaleoil always encourage you to corroborate the source and not to believe everything that MSM reported. Somehow when it comes to Islam – everything in MSM is true…. really?

          I don’t have to defend Islam. The truth will always prevail. I am here, making myself available to everyone who want to learn.

          Have a good day :-)

          • kereru

            The truth is out there – sometimes it is unpalatable, but you cannot deny statistical proof no matter how much it might disturb you personally.

            With respect, as WO has shown (and many other non-MSM sources) the facts are clear. There are problems almost everywhere in the Islamic world, faction-fighting, fighting non-Muslims, an upsurge in draconian measures taken against Christians and others – and increasingly insistent demands to introduce Shariah law in nations which have never been Islamic and which are unacceptable. Contrary to what you claim, the MSM tends to give Islam a free pass.

            It is good to have you on board, Abdullah, and to have you available for questioning. Christians and others are here too, and we’d enjoy answering your questions. After all, Jesus did teach that He is the Way the Truth and the Life! But the facts are out there and cannot be denied. It doesn’t help the debate if that is contested when the statistics prove otherwise. That you as a Muslim leader may disagree is your privilege in a free country. But I wouldn’t bet on my chances of staying alive if I claimed that Jesus is the Truth in Pakistan, or Iran – or many other Islamic nations. Why, if Islam is as you say, do all Muslim nations persecute non-Muslims?

    • spanishbride

      The problem is that if you make it legal because of the small minority who freely choose to wear it you take away the protection for those who do not want to wear it. Many Muslim women have commented that they came to the West expecting to gain equal rights but that Western laws and Political correctness prevented them from obtaining it. Instead the West enabled their oppression to continue.

      • Abdullah

        “The problem is that if you make it legal because of the small minority who freely choose to wear it…”

        I am glad that now you have accepted that these minority freely choose to wear it.

        The only way I can see your point stands if we make it illegal for them not to wear Hijab.

        Smokers are a minority in this country. It is legal to smoke. As a non-smoker I don’t feel like I am obliged to smoke because smoking is legal.

        Have a great day SB.

        • spanishbride

          Hi Abdullah
          yes I happily acknowledge that there are a few women who for reasons that I cannot comprehend choose to wear the Burka.

          Do you acknowledge that the majority of Muslim women all over the world ARE forced to wear it like in Iran? How do you feel about their rights to equality being trampled on?

          • Abdullah

            1. Most of the women wear it because of their faith. They believe in their faith and they are wanting to be the best in this life. Just like the jewish people in Israel where their women folk has their hair covered (jewish law requires women who are married to have their hair covered as in Thalmud).

            2. No – I disagree completely. 20% of 1.7 billion muslims are Arabs. The rest are non-Arab. If you are referring to what happen in Iran as per your recent post, I believe it is the law of their country/govt voted by the people. To said majority of the Muslims are being forced because of what happen in Iran is absolute nonsense.

            3. Have you read what I have sent to you before? What rights that have been trampled? Islam teach that mother’s right 3x greater than father’s right.

            http://islamicpamphlets.com

        • Greg

          Terrorism Of course has nothing to do “the religion of peace” either but so far in 2016 there has been 863 attacks in 43 countries, in which 7981 people were killed and 10184 injured, all carried out by Muslims.
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents,_January%E2%80%93June_2016

          • Abdullah

            Hi Greg – that is a great stat. Have you read that wikipedia page in details before sharing it with me?

            I don’t know what you are trying to imply but I’ll help you to understand the stats.

            1. Those list includes state and non-state actors.

            2. Check out the countries involved in that attacks. Libya – let us bring Gaddafi down and now what? Many tribes are now fighting with each other. Iraq – remove Saddam there will be peace and destroy all WMD. Oh crap now we have Baghdadi leading ISIS. WMD are nowhere to be found. Then Syria – let us bring down Assad… We know who put Assad there in the first place and what happen now with the refugee.

            I will simplify – those attacks are in the war torn countries brought by after removing their leaders by force/war.

            Learn to understand what you read :-)

            Have a great day.

          • Greg

            And how do you explain the Paris terror attack or the Brussels terror attack? What has Brussels ever done to “the religion of peace” other than open its doors to Muslims?

            Can you explain to me, “this uneducated non believer” what taqiyya means? Is it true, taqiyya is any form of lying, deceit, misleading, half-truths to further the growth of Islam?

            Quran (16:106) – Establishes that there are circumstances that can “compel” a Muslim to tell a lie.

            Quran (3:28) – This verse tells Muslims not to take those outside the faith as friends, unless it is to “guard themselves” against danger

          • kereru

            Wiki isn’t very reliable, Greg. It’s difficult to get exact totals as not every incident is reported, but this is one list which can be substantiated as it reports the details.

            In the last 30 days there were 182 Islamic attacks in 24 countries, in which 1506 people were killed and 1840 injured. It lists the incidents which range from Libya, Iraq and Syria (as Abdullah notes) but also includes the following nations:

            Tanzania, Afghanistan, Yemen, Bangladesh, Somalia, Pakistan, Thailand, Dagestan, Nigeria, Kenya, Mali, Germany, the Philippines, Chechnya, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Cameroon, Democratic Republic of Congo, and Turkey. Many of these nations report repeated attacks.

        • thesilentmajority

          But what if, as a non-smoker, you were forced to smoke?

      • thesilentmajority

        In an ideal world we would be able to protect those who don’t want to wear it through other means and allow those who truly want to wear it the liberty to do so. But we don’t live in an ideal world. And the words burqa, Islam, women and liberty are not exactly a match made in heaven! And I agree with you, many Muslim women have commented that they came to the West expecting to gain equal rights. We fail them miserably.

    • johnandali

      But I have read that the burqua is not required by islamic law, and that it’s purely a customary piece of clothing, and is not worn by all muslims.

  • kereru

    Meanwhile, in Germany 40,000 Christians are being attacked by their fellow ‘migrants’. I quote:

    ‘Multiple human rights organizations are warning the German government of the conditions that Christians in asylum homes are being subjected to. One organization in particular has chronicled 231 specific cases of the harassment of Christians by Muslim migrants and Muslim security guards in asylum homes.

    Open Doors is a humanitarian relief organization that specializes in helping Christians who are persecuted worldwide. Markus Rode, a member of the group, said that the study is only “the tip of the iceberg” and called for more action to address the problem Frankfurter Allgemeine reports.

    Breitbart London has reported many times of the challenges of migrants who have chosen to forgo Islam and convert to Christianity. Many converts wished to do so in their homelands, but in places like Iran and Afghanistan the penalty for leaving the Islamic religion can be death and so they fled to Europe. Now in European asylum homes they are finding more and more that they are in as much danger from radical Muslims in Europe as they were in their home countries.

    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/05/10/40000-christians-harassed-muslims/

    Is the death penalty for converts to Christianity also not a teaching of Islam, Abdullah?

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