Whaleoil General Debate

keep-calm-and-don-t-shoot-the-messenger-3Morning everyone, and welcome to Whaleoil’s daily General Debate post (another one called Backchat will start at 6pm). To participate you’ll need to register a free Disqus account.

There are some rules, and if there is one thing about Whaleoil that you need to know is that these rules are dispassionately and strictly enforced.


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  • Cadwallader

    Radio Live: “Maoris and PIs are 3 times more likely to have asthma!” That’s it. No explanations, no actual numbers and no supporting facts. 3 times more likely than whom? Europeans? Asians? It seems that this is an opinion of an undisclosed party but is served up by the unthinking media as verifiable news. I smell a demand for more of those magic white man’s $$$$ to be thrust into “asthma research” at a leftie institution by leftie academics. In this instance the media is little more than a marketing arm for academia. I wonder whether the msm is too stupid to realise this?

    • KatB

      I’m starting to think it happens a lot in health research altogether. Where does all the money go that gets given for cancer research and how often do you hear of a promising breakthrough in the fight against cancer, never to be heard of again? Strange how the limits for levels seem to change too, eg cholesterol limits seem to have come down and down. What was once a healthy level is now too high. I wonder who on earth might be pushing that to sell more of their products? And much like climate change, I have seen graphs adjusted to suit the story too.

      • Miss McGerkinshaw

        Watched a documentary on Netflix yesterday ‘Prescription Thugs’ which was basically about the addiction of Americans to prescription medicine. But within that was the expose of the pharmaceuticals role in this. They are a business. They are there to make money. Hence ‘creating’ sickness and then ‘healing’ it = $$$’s

        I have worked for research labs, in a secretarial role so not actually involved, but yes their money came from large pharmaceuticals and so yes their ‘questions’ were slanted to get the answers their paymasters wanted. Research that didn’t fit the with the desired result was somehow often invalid.

        Another of my bugbears is the way that the effect they want is promoted as positive and the other, not so wanted effects, are ‘side effects’. To make them sound less I suppose. The reality is drugs have effects. Some we want and some we don’t but they are all effects from that drug, nothing side about any of it.

        • dennis

          It’s fashionable to knock the pharmaceutical companies and forget the millions of lives their products have saved. It’s extremely difficult to slant the results of a double blind trial. It’s also convenient to forget their products are regulated by independent government agencies.

          • Miss McGerkinshaw

            I don’t disagree that there has been a lot of good done by pharma but that does not make them holier than thou. They are profit driven and if they were really the ‘good guys’ and only in it for humanities sake why do they not share the breakthroughs that they make amongst each other rather than having multiple variations of drugs that do the same thing?

            I accept that it is difficult to slant the results of a double blind trial but what is not difficult is to keep trialling until the desired result is reached and only the ‘successful’ ones being touted.

            As to independent government agencies protecting us I wonder about the differing criteria in different countries and what that might imply as to the drug involved?
            When I was on the pill and living in different countries, in ALL cases I couldn’t get the one I was on in the country I had moved to as it was banned there. This was in NZ, the UK, Switzerland and Sweden. All countries where one would think the regulations were pretty tight / standard.

            Finally not sure if my ‘knocking’ of the pharma can be called fashionable as it stems from my experience and reading in the 70’s and 80’s when anything ‘scientific’ was still pretty much accepted as if it was the word of God.

            They do a lot of good but so did improving sanitation, water, living conditions and generally better information about hygiene way back when.

          • KatB

            Completely agree with you. My sister is battling cancer, not being given a great outcome by her oncologist, she is researching a lot of things. Never has she been told to look at her diet, many would doubt it will help, but surely it will keep her in better condition at the least. It seems for lots of other illnesses, diet is talked about, for cancer it has never been mentioned to her. She now is on long term medication for the side effects of her cancer treatment, a side effect she was not aware of. So there’s a gain for the drug companies right there. More medication to treat the side effects. Some of the side effects from the cancer drugs are just crazy.

            I’ve also seen a programme on the role a couple of the big drug companies had at the Auschwitz Concentration camp. These drug factories were huge and used the prisoners as labour, many dying through poor health while working there. Ethical?

            A few drugs have done a lot of good and have stood the test of time, but you’re right about the general improvement in our standard of living and the benefits that will have come from that also.

          • Miss McGerkinshaw

            Sorry to hear about your sister and wish her, and your family, well.

            That’s the rub they don’t tell you about the negative ‘side’ effects, just the wonderful things these drugs can do.
            I have had a friend recently going through the same thing and she often wondered whether the side effects were worth it.
            I agree diet isn’t talked about for cancer and not saying that it is a cure but as you say could make things if not more pleasant at least a little less unpleasant as one goes through the effects of treatment.

          • KatB

            Thanks. She has a really positive outlook on life and certainly hasn’t thrown in the towel.

  • R&BAvenger

    Labour’s early morning propaganda hour (aka Breakfast on One) started with the byline….’We talk to Andrew Little about his secret trip to Iraq’…..
    I’m so glad I only watch/hear their garbage because it’s on and I’m waiting for the weather forecast.
    Then my partner hit me up on my scepticism on climate change, as I’d made reference to the current spell warmer weather and how it’d inevitably be linked to global warming.
    I told her that I believed the planet had been warming since the last ice age, but the claims made since the late1970s have not eventuated. The north pole is not ice free, we still have snowfall, sea level rise a steady 3mm p.a etc etc.
    I refrained from telling her to try and be a bit more savvy and explore things more widely than the half truths and alarmist propaganda repeated by ‘our’ msm, let alone CNN. Purely in the interests of harmony.

    • Bryan

      it was Brownlie that invited Little to go not him deciding to go at all, to open his eyes to what is really happening,as labour could not afford to send him over,and while talking about us taking more refugees,he ignores that Saudi Arabia is not taking any

      • R&BAvenger

        Yes, I am aware of the facts, a government trip to Iraq that Angry was invited along on. The falsehood perpetuated by Breakfast being the point that annoyed.

  • Isherman

    So apparently, the reason for Gerry’s trip to Israel being so secret was because of ‘security concerns’…yeah right, go and pull the other one. How come then when another Minister, namely Murray McCully visited Israel, his visit didn’t need to be shrouded in secrecy over ‘security concerns’? We might just be sleepy hobbits of middle Nu Zilland, but we’re not altogether that stupid. The term ‘get some guts’ has far less meaning when you’re too scared to admit a ministerial visit to a friendly country I would have thought.

    • I knew about the trip two weeks ago, I was just waiting for Bogie Ya’alon top post on Facebook as he always does….hilarious…and the Ferald followed up my story hours and hours afterwards.

      Gee, I wonder how Claire Trevett found out Gerry had been there?

      • Isherman

        Heh. I don’t know for sure the reason for the visit, so I could only speculate, and it’s been suggested that it is not related to McCully’s recent statements of our position on settlements or the peace process. With that in mind I’m hoping it has more to do with procurement or trade in military hardware/tech, that’ll get the left in a lather and it would be one possible explanation for the silence.

    • Oh Please

      Surely the security concerns were that Gerry would use the wrong door at the airport.

      • Isherman

        Very good, lol.
        Lately the Americans have had some concerns about multinational peacekeeping forces in the Sinai, and have suggested they might be re-thinking it all, but I can’t see that as being a reason for the secrecy either. I await with interest what it’s all about.

      • dumbshit

        Maybe they were fitting a ranch Slider!

  • KGB

    I won’t share the details of the death of a 3 year old little boy named Moko, it is simply too sad. He was murdered, it was NOT manslaughter.
    When is the justice system going to do their job? When murdering a child can be pled down to manslaughter, we send the message that a child’s life is less valued. It was somehow ‘accidental’ to beat a child to death.
    The media offers us all the gruesome details but fail to answer all immediate questions. Were they family? Why were these 2 children left with this couple for 2 months? Where were the parents? Did they check on their children? Will they too be charged? Should they be charged?
    How much money do we pour into preventing child abuse every year? How many more children’s names must be burned into our memories? Why isn’t killing a child a more serious crime than killing an adult?
    I will wait for the sentencing next month to see how much we continue to under-value an innocent child’s life.

    • Miss McGerkinshaw

      Sue where are you when we need you?
      How about addressing this part of the ‘smacking’ then?

    • Cadwallader

      It is likely the feral who shot the police dog the other day will do more time than these pricks. The problem with all statistics in NZ is that they are pinioned on a falsehood. That being, there is little or no delineation between the conduct of whites and Asians on one hand: and the conduct of the so-called indigenous population.If separate crime statistics were kept for each racial group the numbers may come to mean something. Maoris claim they want separate representation; well this would be a good avenue for that.

      • Jp

        umm the guy who did that died

        • Cadwallader

          Yes, you’re right. By his own hand at that. Had he lived, how long do you think he’d have served? Longer for a dog?

      • RightyTighty LeftyLoosey

        Isn’t he dead?

      • R&BAvenger

        He is doing more time, 6 feet under.

      • KGB

        I think crime statistics are kept for a lot of crimes and perhaps this is part of the problem.
        Maori argue they are more highly represented in prisons because they are more likely to be incarcerated for crimes than other races. Less likely to afford a good defence, bad childhoods, etc.
        Now we see special programmes like ‘no drivers licence’ second chances. I bet there are many, many, more.
        When we focus on race don’t we perhaps offer an excuse? Is this ‘excuse’ then reflected in our courtrooms?
        I don’t care what colour one is, beating a child to death is murder. If Maori want to own and change their over representation in these statistics…great. But let’s stop throwing money at the problem, making excuses for these killers, and start locking them up for life.
        Anyone capable of committing such a crime is incapable of empathy. Serial killers are also incapable of empathy. There is no fixing that without suggesting the death penalty.

    • Seriously?

      The legal problem in cases like this is to prove who the murderer is. If the “parents” keep their mouths shut, it is sometimes difficult to prove that one, or both of them did it.

      It is easy to cast criticism on the prosecution for agreeing to the plea arrangement, but we don’t know whether they had evidence to prove which one (or both) of the poor excuses for humans did it.

      Manslaughter can carry a penalty just as high as murder – it too can result in a “life” sentence of imprisonment. Let’s wait and see what sentence the Judge imposes before we decide the system is broken.

      If there is a better system, then people should suggest it.

      • KGB

        You are right and I have experienced this in my own extended family. One of the parents inflicted terrible injuries over a period of time, but both denied guilt and neither was ever charged. They have ‘moved on’ to have 4 more children though the 1st child/victim was permanently removed.
        In other countries both parents would be charged and the Courts would determine guilt. One is guilty, the other is guilty as an accomplice?
        In America if 3 men rob a bank but only 1 carried a gun, all 3 would be charged and convicted of armed robbery.
        During the Kahui debacle we were told that nothing could be done when they refused to cooperate. In America I’m told all would have been charged, and eventually they break ranks.
        I respect your legal opinion and wonder if the law here has that fundamental fault?

        • Seriously?

          It is not my field of expertise, but as I understand it the “charge both and let the Court decide” approach is what we do here. But that leaves open the outcome that, despite the tragic result being plain to see, the prosecution may not be able to prove that A did it, B did it, or both. We might be certain it was one, other, or both, but not which of those options.

          I suspect that both might be guilty as accessories, or for some other crime such as failing to proved the necessities of life (not taking the kid to hospital). But it can all get quite messy.

          For me an important thing is trying to prevent this happening. I don’t think there is much evidence to suggest that a murder conviction does that – that would require perpetrators to consider the penalties before doing the act. Sure we need to ensure a proper punishment for them, but that doesn’t help the victim, or perhaps the next victim. If we can find a way, earlier intervention to take their kids off them and to stop them having more seems a partial solution, but that is hard as well unless friends and family speak up about what they see.

      • jaundiced

        If, as in so many of these sad occasions, the family decides to close ranks to protect the guilty, than the responsibility needs to be shot home to all of them. rather than no-one being charged, then they are all equally guilty.

  • rantykiwi

    I see some scumbag lawyer is arguing “She had a young child and could not do a community work sentence because it clashed with childcare”. Maybe we should just be taking the kids off ferals who have no regard for the law – that way the kid will get a decent upbringing and any sentence we wish can be imposed.

    Best of all is the name of of the accused – McLoone. You’d need to be one to rush around shooting random people with a BB gun and then admit it to the cops.


    • InnerCityDweller

      So, who is looking after the child while she’s out and about at night, shooting at people? Thinking about that child before offending would be the right thing to do, but since the child can be used as an excuse not to be sentenced to anything but a slap with a wet bus ticket… Feral.

  • spanishbride

    Here’s Bruce’s latest pic.

    Raglan bar was a bit rough so he helped out with a Raglan harbour fish.

    He sniffed out some stingray and helped get a feed of snapper. Can’t wait for the next leg of his adventure. Please e-mail [email protected] to offer your address as he is keen to get going.

    • JohnO

      Raglan is my favourite holiday spot. We camp there in the kopua campgroud every christmas and surf wainui beach, walk up to the estuary mouth to watch the kite surfers, swim + jump off the raglan bridge, golfing and football on the reserve, new years eve fireworks, walk to town for a moccachino, go to the wharf for fish and chips, stand up paddle boarding, kayaking, hire bikes for a bike excursion . Auckland’s best holiday destination.

  • Whenever we have a morning without George, I worry.

  • axeman

    I have lived with Asthma all my life. I believe I got it as both my parents smoked and I suggest that mum probably even smoked through her pregnancy with me. But my asthma has been well controlled with well ventilated, vacuumed & clean homes, flu injections and a good doctors that has has kept up with best practice asthma medications such a Seritide preventative & Ventolin relievers etc. Both my mum and dad quit smoking when they could see how distressed smoking caused me to breathe. As an asthmatic I can recall as kid dad carrying me on his shoulder and pacing the hall as it was the only position I could relax and breathe
    As a kid I struggled with running etc but got into playing hockey and eventually played prem senior mens grade and along the way represented my province at colts level. Now at the ripe middle age of 53 I have been a qualified surf lifeguard for 3 years now which was goal set to be involved with my two kids who love the Surf Lifesaving environment.
    My point is that even though I am a white New Zealander, coming from a blue collar family environment that was on struggle street you can get if the desire is there to make good choices and live just fine. But you have to want to or have parents who want to effect the change

    • Quinton Hogg

      I have been lucky i think.
      I had asthma as a kid and had to go to those horrible physio sessions. yuck.
      Then we moved cities, to dunedin of all places and the asthma stopped.
      I have only two attacks since, one running up Holyrood Hill carrying an inhaler to another asthmatic who was having an attack. The inhaler was used twice that day, and the other sailing for some reason 20 odd years ago.

      • axeman

        Yes definitely certain areas are more prone to this condition as well.
        I was lucky that Mum & Dad cared enough to stop smoking and that made a huge difference which enable me to exercise and get fitter that also made a big difference

  • Eiselmann

    Expecting a mini baby boom in Leicester in nine months time…..5000 to one against and they have done it….Champions of England, even thou they are not my team its one heck of an accomplishment and something to smile about.

    • Aucky

      The bookies will be laughing all the way to the bank.

    • Isherman

      It’s a great sport story, and I’m pretty happy for them. Leicester will be on a bender for a wee bit yet I imagine and good on them.
      I would have liked my lot (Spurs) to drag it out a little bit further and get a rare win over Chelsea at Stamford Bridge though…sadly not to be, but the brand of footy Tottenham are playing at the moment puts them in a good space for next season. I reckon if Spurs can win it next year they should have the right to force Arsenal out of Norf London and back to grungy ol Woolwich where they belong:)

    • Ross

      I heard a stat (trying to validate it):
      “Manchester United have spent more on new player in the two-year reign of their current manager than the new champions have in their entire 132-year existence.”

      What an awesome story, and would love that stat to be true!

      • Eiselmann

        If its not correct it won’t be far from it, seen reports that this win could be worth 150 to 200 million pounds to Leicester in the next 12 months.

        The Leicester normal starting 11 cost around 22 million pounds to assemble..seven years ago Cristiano Ronaldo went to Real Madrid for 80 million pounds.

  • Dave

    This is not about Maori or PI, but go over to the islands and see how many PI’s living in the warmer climates suffer asthma, well not many at all. Those that do are mostly in households that smoke.

    For a reduction in Asthma, I would rank the best ways as follows.
    No smoking anywhere near the home or within 30 minutes of home.
    Clean, vacuum with filters, remove all dust.
    Destroy any shoddy old kapok type furniture or bedding
    Invest in a good hypo alergenic pillow for the asthmatic.
    Fit several layers of thick clean curtains in their bedroom
    Open windows to ventilate the home especially in bathrooms and kitchens
    Get a medium size de humidifier
    Firstly, fir a Vapour barrier under the house.
    Then the underfloor insulation
    Then ceiling insulation.

    As others point out, it’s a shame Maori or PI suffer the most, and once more are at the wrong end of the stats, but they put themselves there.

  • richard.b

    This was in my mail box yesterday.
    What to do readers?
    Option 1: Put it in the bin where it belongs
    Option 2: Sign up for the 5 weeks free, get their hopes up that they have me hooked, and then cancel it. The cost to them to get the Rural Postie to deliver the Horrid must be huge.
    Do the free copies go towards their circulation stats?

    • Oh Please

      Yes, the free ones do count towards circulation, which is why they do it. Then they can tell potential advertisers how many million readers they have. Don’t fall for it – unless you are running short on toilet paper.

    • Spiker

      Even free I wouldn’t want it.

  • Isherman

    Jeremy Corbyn begrudgingly admitting there might be a little problem…but little one, “not huge” with as many as 50, yes 50 members being suspended…secretly of course. The compliance unit is struggling to keep up with the ejections. Wow.


  • JustanObserver

    What ever to do …
    My wife and my daughter don’t get along.
    I am re-married (5 1/2 years now), and mostly my wife has been tolerant of my 10yo daughter and helped me with her.
    But over the last 18 months, it seems she has been finding more reason to get angry at my daughter while having contradicting tolerances and standards for her 17yo son.
    My step-son stays with us all the time, and my daughter every second week.
    Over the last 3 weeks it has gotten pretty bad, and I would go as far as saying my wife has become nasty and is bullying my daughter.
    She says that I allow my daughter to answer her back and ignore her, both behaviors I absolutely do not tolerate from either kid.
    On the weekend gone after a particularly nasty and mean rant at my daughter, I told her she needed to take a good look in the mirror at whom she has become because I wasn’t going to put up with her bullying either child, and if she chose not to change, we would be done.
    We have not spoken since Sunday morning, but today we have gotten into a debate over who is right and who is wrong.
    I see no time that an adult can bully, be nasty and make fun of a child just to hurt them, or to use their hurt to hurt another adult.
    What should I do?

    • rantykiwi

      Trade up to wife version N+1.

    • dumbshit

      Big deep breaths, needed. Don’t shout when putting your side of argument, and try to use definite examples, not generalities. Thoughts are with you, your daughter needs you. Cheers.

      • JustanObserver

        It seems definite examples only get her more anti, even when she paints herself into an obvious answer.

    • Eiselmann

      When I was ten my father started living with a woman and to say that she was a bully is an understatement, sadly most of what she did to me was done when my father (who worked long hours) was away, but from time to time her lies and abuse couldn’t be hidden (this included a trip to the hospital followed by surgery), she also had her three sons living with us for several years and yes the standards she held them to where completely different to the standards I was held to…..I always wished my father would have stood up for me a lot more, it was only in the years after that relationship (finally ) ended that he realised at least a part of what had been done by this woman.

      Was I am angel ? well far from being a bad kid I was a kid with issues and had already endured some extremely harsh life lessons before this woman entered my life , so yeah I wasn’t a fan of hers and of that she had no doubt.

      Without , of course knowing the exact dynamics going on in your situation , I would say that your daughter needs to respect the authority of your wife when she is in staying with you, however your wife can not treat both children differently and if your daughter is being bullied (and if you can see it then I assure you its a lot worse from your daughter prespective) , that s a recipe for disaster not just today or this week but ten years from now.

      You need to not just talk to both your daughter and wife about how they should treat each other but also ensure they know what you expect form the other person

      Speaking as a person who has been in that situation ,as the child, the worst thing you can do exclusively pick your wifes side. I loved my father , I spent the last three years of his life looking after him when , at times, he was incapable of even the most basic tasks, I did that out of love and respect for all he did for me ….but I can tell you I also wished he’d been more involved , I wish he had taken my side instead of her’s , instead of giving her free reign.

      • JustanObserver

        I hear you.
        It all sounds familiar.
        My daughter is strong-willed and will push boundaries, she does respect rules though.
        For too long now, I have sided with my wife when I should have been pulling her up, I think she is emboldened from my lack of intervention, seeing that as support.
        She came from a marriage where she was controlled and I believe she has become the controller towards my daughter.
        I just want my 2 favorite girls to get along.

        • Eiselmann

          I barely spoke to my father for three years from the age of 18 to 21 and when we did talk it was a screaming match, I was so angry at him all the time, When I was 19 he wrote off his car and ended up in hospital, I wasn’t told because he figured I wouldn’t care, and as much as I wish I could (hand on heart ) insist I would have cared, a part of me knows I wouldn’t have , I felt a massive sense of betrayal because he just never backed me.

          I feel for you, my perspective , as I said , is from your daughters side , no matter how this turns out she has to feel that you have her corner even as you also have to back them both.

        • In Vino Veritas

          Here’s my tuppance Observer. I have a couple of young daughters, so sympathise! I have, from my mates who have boys, made an observation. Boys are blunt instruments. If there is an issue they smack you between the eyes with it. Girls are more cunning and manipulative. And manoeuvre one parent against the other. They really can be very clever and creative! Always talk with one another about decisions to be made since girls will ask one, get a negative then ask the other and get a positive! (thus pitting parents against each other). At 10, girls can “hate” others (particularly other girls) at the drop of a hat. Its not really hate, its a cat fight, and they ALL do it, no exceptions. Any issues about tolerances have to be measured against age. 10 v 17 means there will always be marked differences. Kids that are older have a mind and like to use it. In my experience, they say stuff and its more the tone that they use, than the content that warps their parents mind. Remember, that a 17 year old answering back is them exercising their right of reply or response. They just need to understand and be reminded that they need to be mindful of the tone and delivery of their response. First and foremost though, you need to sort things out with your wife and then present an entirely united front to your daughter. Boundaries are important at 10. By 17 the son knows them (and will undoubtedly push through them – but remember yourself at that age!). Happy parenting….

    • Blue

      Take a step back, breathe. Look at the bigger picture, is there anything else going on? Maybe just go for a drive and sit on the beach somewhere and calmly talk about how you want things to be and ask her how she would like it to be also, can you both come to an agreement with regards to how you raise the kids and discipline them. If she does have a short fuse can she talk with you first, go for a walk, anything other than getting into it with your daughter.
      Do you want it to be over? When drawing that line in the sand are you ready to step over it? What I found really sad from what you said is that she had been mostly tolerant…
      Good luck and best wishes for you all.

    • Crowgirl

      Maybe some family counselling if you can’t just talk it out amongst yourselves?

    • KatB

      I have heard it said, the step parent should not be the main disciplinarian. I guess it’s the old “you’re not my mother/father” situation. It’s important for you to have a good relationship with your daughter and like Eiselmann says be there for her, let her know you’ve got her back, not to be confused with giving her a free pass either, nor at the expense of any good intentions by your wife. A tough situation when there’s kids from both of you from previous relationships. I think counselling like Crowgirl has suggested would be a good option. I hope you can work out. Horrible to be pulled in two different directions.

    • Sticktotheknitting

      So sorry you are in this predicament. I can only speak from my experience. When my sons found they had a stepmother, the 2nd son was so unhappy. His father supported his wife in everything because (a) she had the money for a house and (b) they would leave home eventually and she would be the one who stayed.
      My son took years and years to get over his hatred of her and the 2 half sisters who came along. It has ruined his life actually. So my advice would be support your own daughter (she’s only 10 ) and she needs you. Keep up the discussion with your wife and talk to your daughter. Find out what it is that niggles, you may find it is jealousy on your wife’s part and a feeling of being left out and not belonging on your daughters part. She comes into the household every second week so must have to “break in” to a family that’s complete without her. I feel so much empathy for you, but please support and talk to that wee girl. The other’s are all adults and need to show a bit of sympathy. I guess it’s not the wee girls fault her parents are separated and remarried. Best wishes.

  • Seriously?

    KGB raised the topic of what to do about cases like the murder of the toddler by its “caregivers”.

    It has been bugging me all day – it is just so terrible. What can we do to help prevent it happening?

    I wonder if the Police should have a hotline like they do for drivers, the *555 thing. They seem quite responsive to that, so why not for child abuse. A particular number anyone can call if they see something that makes them worry about the welfare of a child, but in a way that is more accessible and less daunting than calling 111. If we want people to speak up, why not make it easier to do so.

    • Carl

      Paul Henry asked a women the same question this morning and Child youth and family have a 24 hour number for those sort of things. 0508 326 458.

    • KGB

      It’s bugged me all day too, so I did a bit of digging.
      This family has been bought to CYF attention before. David William Haerewa is one of a line of family killers, including another child.
      Ben Haewera (nephew) killed his partners 4 year old son James Whakaruru. CYF had visited the family on 13 occasions before his death. He was charged with assaulting James 2 years before he killed him. This too was a horrific death.
      John Haerwera (brother) in is jail for murder.
      Here hoping that Anne Tolley’s does identify these families, target them, and we begin to see progress. Clearly CYF has not protected Haewera households to date :(
      Moko Sayviah Rangitoheriri RIP

      • johnandali

        In Tasmania, the Police reckoned that three extended families were committing 80% of the crimes. I wonder if a similar study has been carried out here?

        • KGB

          My Dad was a career policeman, so has 40 years on the clock. He says every town has 4,5,6, family names that contribute to 90% of the problem.
          A sad reflexion considering he retired in 1986.
          Nothing has changed !!!

  • Isherman

    NZ Herald Headline: “Wellington Bank robbed in broad daylight”
    So are they more usually robbed in the dark, late at night when they’re closed are they?

    • Seriously?

      Perhaps they considered a fine day in Wellington, as opposed to the gloomy overcast norm, was also worth of reporting, hence “broad daylight” as opposed to any other sort of daylight.

      • Isherman

        It is Welly, so yeah, maybey:) But being trained and skilled as they are I’m sure it makes sense to them for some reason or another, they wouldn’t publish something that was just silly would they.