Whaleoil General Debate

keep-calm-and-don-t-shoot-the-messenger-3Morning everyone, and welcome to Whaleoil’s daily General Debate post (another one called Backchat will start at 6pm). To participate you’ll need to register a free Disqus account.

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  • KGB

    Is that it Nicky Hager? If that’s it there must be a lot of tin-hatters feeling like they dressed in Nana’s knickers today.

    • Crowgirl

      Less fizz, more phut. Repeating a lie doesn’t make it true.

  • Cadwallader

    Hager=Pomposity. “We (NZ) are helping people elsewhere in the world to break their countries’ laws.” So here we have a cohort of a hacker portraying himself as an international policeman. Hager is a self-appointed self-preening keeper of morals? I don’t think so. What is interesting is how blindly Little Angry has fallen in behind Hager without rational thought or dignity.

    • Crowgirl

      We’re only helping to do that if they’re not paying tax in their own countries. I still don’t see evidence of that.

      It seems they are advocating for everyone to pay tax in NZ even if the income isn’t earned there. I expect next they’ll want to use the tax money to fund the Labour Party.

      • Woody

        I really like every foreigner everywhere to pay tax in NZ so I didn’t have to but unlike Angry, Hagard an other assorted nutters I know that we don’t control other countries tax affairs. Even John Key knows this.

        • Crowgirl

          Not a problem Woody, you would still be obliged to pay tax too.

          • Mark

            The real irony is that if NZ was an actual tax haven,not only would foreigners not have to pay tax,we could set it up so neither would Kiwis,or we could get by on a small GST.
            There are vast amounts of money to be made from being a trustworthy tax haven,there are even more amounts to be made from having such a status in a country that is desirable to visit & has the capacity in its infrastructure to cater properly to people with money.
            Very few tax havens have the capacity to get as much as they can from rich pricks because they are so small!
            If the Left cared about lifting NZr’s out of poverty they would be demanding we become a Tax Haven.

    • Woody

      Still promoting himself as an investigative journalist rather than the fence of stolen material that he really is.

    • Bryan

      and to hear Chris trotter on Paul Henry say PFFF there is nothing in this and the other chap to say ” the reason the overseas people want to have their trusts here is we are known for open and good administration” classic!! and then he went on to say in response to Little”s plan to shut down overseas trusts “how do you shut down what is not in this country” and above all anything that is released through the hands of Nicky Hager should be viewed with deep distrust

    • Quinton Hogg

      The bloke is also a trustafarian which makes his pontifications on matters trust utterly hypocritical.

      • sarahmw

        Yes I thought that too. When is someone going to ask him where he keeps his $$$$$$. Also Laila Harre. I think there should be a declaration by all MPs, interested persons on whether or not they have Trusts. Won’t hold my breath.

    • dennis

      Hager is a purveyor of stolen goods.

  • rustyjohn58

    Switched over to Paul Henry over brekky this morning. Couldn’t stand hager and his support team on the other one. But I have to say Hillary the new mother of the nation (apparently) has that disinterested semi scowl of someone who doesn’t want to be there. I’m surprised they keep her on air.

    • dumbshit

      Is the last rat she had to swallow, stuck in her craw?

    • Bryan

      you should have listened longer she got busted by her kids about buying her own mothers day present, and opened it to find they had switched her perfume for ski wax classic

  • Usaywot

    Ha ha ha ha! The main stream media taken for fools…..again!

  • Richard

    Although the euthanasia debate goes on for people suffering under a multitude of different health issues, which severely compromise their quality of life, for people in the end stages of the struggle, there exists an unspoken understanding in NZ that they will be assisted in crossing over with as little pain as possible.

    For the second time in the last three years, I have born witness to this, while having the privilege of being present at the end of a life well lived and a great legacy of family and love handed over to the next generation.

    RIP Dad.

    • Crowgirl

      So sorry to hear Richard. Wasn’t your father diagnosed quite recently?

      • Richard

        Yes, 3 weeks ago, last Friday he was still fit enough to be digging a ditch in his back yard.
        Went into hospital on Monday with complications and passed early Friday morning.
        We are all quite grateful that it was a relatively speedy end for him.

        • Crowgirl

          That’s very fast – thoughts to your and your family.

    • Isherman

      My deepest sympathy Richard.

    • Curly1952

      Please accept my deepest sympathy Richard.

    • KGB

      Sorry for your loss Richard.

    • Aucky

      Sorry to hear your news Richard. Kia kaha.

    • Miss McGerkinshaw

      Sorry for you and your family.
      Mum went quickly also and whilst it is hard I felt the positive was that she didn’t die suddenly, we knew and I had a chance to say goodbye.

    • KatB

      Thoughts are with you Richard and your family.

    • Chris EM

      So very sorry to hear this, Richard.

    • Spiker

      Sorry to hear that Richard. May loving memories ease your loss and bring you comfort.

    • STAG

      Deepest sympathy Richard.

    • Nige.

      Mate :°(

    • JEL51

      Really sad for you, thanks for sharing with us.

    • George

      Look after yourself. So sorry to hear of your loss.

    • Left Right Out

      Take care Richard… many thoughts

  • pisces8284

    I totally agreed with Mike Hosking’s comment this morning. This is face glaze over stuff, no worse than tradies not paying their ‘fair share’ of tax and working for cash

    • Curly1952

      And those who rail against this sort of Panama thing are the ones willing to pay the cash thus assisting tax evasion/avoidance – hypocrites!!

  • Elmwood

    All is revealed. I now know why John Key gets a specific mention in the “Panama papers”, conspiracy theorist Hagar is involved in this. He damages this country beyond belief.

    • Cadwallader

      I prefer NZ to be known as a tax haven than as a Hager Haven!

  • Woody

    I can think of a lot more than 7 “journalists” whose work need aspersions cast.

  • Aucky

    Seems as though the Herald isn’t that interested. I just don’t do breakfast TV so have been keeping a regular watch on the Herald updates. The hottest expose so far is that Mossack Fonseca’s NZ agency is headed up by an ex IRD staffer. I wonder just how many ex IRD staff have progressed into accountancy in the private sector?

    The ZB Newsroom is doing its best though with out of context news bites.

    • Check out some articles later this morning – the Herald are out in the cold.

      • SAM51

        Mediaworks is also out in the cold and you can tell somethings a fizzer when Paddy Gower sounds so disinterested and disappointed when they cross to him at news breaks.

        • Spiker

          Its not as if there’s much to miss out on. They may end up being pleased they were cut out.

          • SAM51

            Even Chris Trotter on PH said it was a fizzer and pointed out that if these weasels on TVNZ had any good dirt it would be released today – nothing yet that I can see. If Trotter can’t see anything then that’s it – sorry Andrew

          • Left Right Out

            I thought PH closing quote was gold…… Bad luck Andrew Little and James Shaw… I guess there’s always tomorrow

        • There is a reason he’s not happy. He was specifically avoided.

    • johcar

      My accountant is ex-IRD, and he is very good!!

      • D.Dave

        most of the good ones are……..out of the IRD, that is .

  • Alan Beresford B’Stard

    Ms Vance made a freudian slip this morning when she said they have been trawling through these documents to “prove” NZ is a tax haven, before adding as an afterthought or disprove it.

  • KGB

    We listened to the outrage of a $25 million dollar flag debate for a year … I wonder what KDS has cost us to date?
    Starting with Mike Williams detective jaunt, to Dirty Poitics, to Panama papers, it would be interesting to cost. The salaried hours of every opposition MP, their staff, TVNZ staff, National Radio, all the Jane Kelsey type trougher’s. Police hours, IRD hours, inquiries and investigations.
    We are funding all of this madness, driven by delusion and desperation.

  • “Massey University taxation lecturer and former Labour Party candidate Deborah Russell says there’s no particular reason for New Zealand to be involved with foreign trusts.”

    On the web site. Kudos to Newshub to finally stop hiding the true credentials of Russell. Although I’d like to think we had something to do with that.

  • Macca

    So in a nut shell, Hager still hates John Key with a passion, has spent the ‘last year or so dragging through a bunch of ‘stolen’ (not leaked), emails to try and find some dirt, can’t find any so has reverted to plan B which is to try and give this whole beat up some sort of authenticity ie consortium of international journalists – barf, and now their all just making stuff up and saying ‘it’s not fair’. Give me strength!

  • Curly1952

    Don’t watch much TV and certainly not in the morning but with the little I am reading on this blog about the “papers” it sounds very much like it is a real fizzer. I can easily see why Little has said “ban every Trust” – it is because there may be some using a NZ trust and thus breaking their own countries rules. What a soft way out and it shows that Little is politically & commercially naive.

  • sheppy

    So we only have 7 left leaning, jealous of anyone with money journalists that suffer from Key Derangement Syndrome? I’d say there’s more than that

  • So this is Day One, and not a single hit on Key. I have to admit I’m hoping for more tomorrow. This isn’t what I signed up for.

    • Justme

      Maybe they are still practicing John’s Hancock. They want to make sure the documents look authentic this time.

    • Quinton Hogg

      Stuff have some info up, talking about a joint investigation between Radio NZ, TVNZ and the trustifarian.
      It all amounts to ….. um not much.
      They breathlessly report about the MF contact here in NZ.
      So what. I was however impressed by the business model. $3k to file a report with IRD. ca-ching goes the cash register!
      Of more interest was a peice in the Guardian reporting on the amount of money squirreled away outside Russia and China and sundry African countries.
      The amount of money reported to be held out of these countries is eyewatering. that is the true scandal. not the dross that the entities mentioned above are slavering over.

      • Bryan

        your opening lines is the declaration we have all suspected radio NZ TVNZ and Hager working together so how long have these three been working together, now that is a matter of PUBLIC INTEREST

      • localnews

        $3k plus GST of course, a good win for the taxpayers

        • Quinton Hogg

          Thats only for filing annual returns by the staff.
          The big bucks will be in setting up and establishing the trusts, and then jumping through the FMA and anti money laundering hoops.
          I need to look at changing my business model…

    • Curly1952

      Might need to wait for question time in Parliament tomorrow and watch JK bury Little and co as they stumble through their inane questions.

    • XCIA

      I’m relying on WO for the no duff gen here as I banned TV One from the office and Sky News hasn’t mentioned it, which I guess shows how important it all is in the scheme of world affairs.

    • Eiselmann

      My facebook page is decidedly empty of my liberal friends making ‘gotcha’ type comments and I know at least two of them would have been at their keyboards ready to embrace their KDS at 6am

    • Nige.

      How cute. Tvnz have gone to the trouble of designing a little logo for the top right corner of the screen. They’ve BRANDED it! A clear indication that it is nothing being made into something.

      • I have fond memories of the John Campbell half hour special where he totally failed to prove John Key could have maybe known about Kim Dotcom before he claims he did. The graphics were amazing.

      • oldmanNZ

        I think this logo is what they did all weekend, keep it under wraps. Its very hard to desgn a logo

  • Kiwiracer

    Nicky Hagar in my opinion is the last person to be deciding what is morally right or wrong, I have decided that it is in my public interest that he should stop dealing in dubiously obtained emails and documents.

  • Jonathon Stone

    So once again, the usual suspects are playing connect the dots, except they only have 3 dots, on 4 different pages, and whichever way they join them creates a picture of John Key, or so they would have us believe.

  • GoingRight

    How delightful – this looks like it could backfire hugely on the left. Nicky Hagars involvement seems to be the reason that most of the public have already raised their eyebrows and moved on.

  • Intrigued

    In yesterday’s “impertinent questions from a comment of the day”, GregM posed the question as to whether the hack of Mossack Fonseca’s office originated with a hack of it’s NZ office – orchestrated by the usual suspects?

    This morning in Stuff’s article:

    ‘Hager said the firm was in an ordinary office on Auckland’s Queen Street. “where nobody would look and where it’s only inside the computer files and the filing cabinet that you would realise that that is the centre of all kinds of tax haven activity in our country”.’

    Does make you wonder…!

    • Quinton Hogg

      Those comments to make you go hmmmm.
      I might have a word to our computer guy about our firms security out of an abundance of caution.

  • Jonathon Stone

    For a sense of perspective:
    61,000 ÷ 11,500,000 = 0.53%.
    This is what Nicky, Angry and cohorts have been wetting themselves over

    • Seriously?

      And how many of those “mentions” were an email starting “I have just got back from a holiday in New Zealand…”

      • crigs

        or mentions “Mossack Fonseca’s NEW ZEALAND office”.

  • Vutekno

    It was a joy hearing Guyon on RNZ Moaning report bemoaning that John Key has pulled out of a schedule interview on the Panama Papers this morning. He sounded especially hurt that the PM had been interviewed by Paul Henry, bless him & the other one.

    It wouldn’t occur to Guyon that the PM would drop RNZ first because he never gets a fair go there with Espiner continually interrupting, over talking and trying to direct his own agenda IMO.

    Trying to listen to such interviews usually frustrates me because I don’t get to hear what the PM has to say as a result of the continual ha ranging from this hopelessly biased excuse for a radio interviewer.

    So now He is forced to replay TV Ones interview with the PM. That’s the way to do it!

    • Jonathon Stone

      Tv one’s interview was virtually the same anyway. John Key was lucky to speak for 5 seconds before being interrupted by Rawdon to reset the narrative

  • R&BAvenger

    In summary, the Panama Papers ‘reveal’ on Breakfast that Jessica Mutch and Andrea Vance worked so, so, hard on over the weekend, reveals that foreign trusts are operating in NZ, perfectly legally, according to NZ law. According to Vance – it may be perfectly legal, but it’s the moral question that NZers should be worried about.
    That is Media Party/lefty code for “We’ve got nothing”.

    • Wheninrome

      Vance on “moral and legal”. Do they actually listen to what they say or read what they report.
      The first thing that springs to my mind is “people in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones”.

  • Isherman

    Topics being mentioned in the office today:
    How was your Mothers Day?
    How did the Hurricanes lose?
    Even worse, how did the Chiefs lose?
    The nasty fire in Canada.
    Hager and the Panama fizzer haven’t even rated a single mention yet….because nobody cares.

    • Quinton Hogg

      Answer to q4 – The Highlanders beat them! Hopefully i will be in Dunedin on friday watching them beat the crusaders.

      • Miss McGerkinshaw

        Took the words out of my mouth.
        Go the Highlanders!!!!

      • Isherman

        Yep, I might be backing them myself for that one…they played well and shut the Chiefs attacking plan down pretty effectively.

      • hookerphil

        You will need to go to a different stadium because the one I am going to will have the Crusaders winning.

  • Elmwood

    I would like to know how many of these Trusts are actually set up for tax reasons or not. I have read many people (USA mostly) suggesting that New Zealand is such a safe place to stash some money as our economy is stable and we are honest. By stash I mean don’t leave it in US Dollars, but turn it into NZ Dollars and place it here for safekeeping. If the US Dollar and their economy crashes money kept here is safer. My reading over the years would suggest more of these trusts are for that reason, not for tax dodging reasons. I wish we could find out.

    • Tom

      Elmwood, I am sure you hit the nail on the head. Most of the money being stashed away is from countries with a dodgy currency or governments likely to seize your assets. If I was greek, I would certainly have my cash overseas!

    • rangitoto

      LS had a caller this morning who suggested that wealthy people in Mexico and some other Latin American and Caribbean countries are at risk from criminals bribing bank staff to reveal who has lots of ready cash in their accounts. Many of those people keep their dosh in foreign countries to avoid their family members being kidnapped for ransom.

    • Mark

      This why trusts are legal & sensible & useful,as plenty on the Left already know. NZ is a country that many many people interested in financial security recommend & this has long been the case,this is in no way a negative reflection on NZ.
      It is also reason number 87ty billion why we are all blessed to live here.

  • Lemuzz

    How about the Mods relaxing the strict forum rules regarding language when talking about Nicky Hager? Several names for him come to mind but cant be published under the current rules.

  • Intrigued

    Curious to see if John Doe’s singling out of John Key made headlines elsewhere in the world so I did a quick Google search. Apart from all NZ sources zip!
    But it intrigued me that the BBC ran a story on John Doe’s 1800 word statement:
    And guess what – they didn’t even mention John Key in their story! Just goes to show how irrelevant the rest of the world considers NZ as a footnote in this whole saga.

    • Wheninrome

      Perhaps the words “John Key” didn’t actually exist in their copy, maybe the “statement” is changed to suit the political situation of each release area.

      • Intrigued

        Could be something in that!

    • Lance Ralph

      The document reads to me like a ‘rant by committee’ drawing heavily on the communist manifesto, not because of communistic tendencies but because they had to get their structure from somewhere.
      The sentence about John Key gives me the sense of a gratuitous insert by a NZ-based member of the committee, just to score a point – ill-founded certainly but none the less a bit of mud to sling.
      There are surely people skilled in textual analysis who can unpick the document.

      • Intrigued

        Joining the dots, it is worth punting big $$ on the bet that the gratuitous insert about Key came from the NZ based member of the ICIJ and as you say – it was a committee rant for the fictitious front that is “John Doe.” I wonder if they have gone to the trouble of working out which country John Doe ought to come from, the size of his shoes, star sign, colour of his eyes etc etc. Could be quite a fun game to imagine this imaginary character.

    • sheppy

      I’d guess a condition of Saint Nicky releasing his latest pile of drivel is that JK is dragged through the mud as much as possible. Whether that came from the Saint himself or his paymaster will no doubt come out eventually.

    • Isherman

      The other thing is with the NZ media particularly, any other stories that might come about, that are potentially far more interesting will be overlooked because they are all too busy looking for that one “gotcha John Key” line and not much else.
      The only story to come out of the whole thing so far, that I find any interest in from a purely political perspective is the emerging story of Saudi money being funnelled to Netanyahu’s election campaign, of which hitherto only vague rumours had existed of.

  • oldmanNZ

    I am deeply disturbed about all this Hager stuff.
    It is quite clearly Hager has some material or digital data that is sensitive.
    This is not the only time he has received stolen data and profit from it.

    My concern is why is he still allowed to continually using stolen goods and not charged with receiving stolen goods, he not even a moral fibre to return it to its rightful owner.

    • KGB

      He may have cooked his own goose here effectively destroying his photocopying career.
      When people like Gower & Trotter consider Hager’s involvement a negative, his credibility is doomed.
      Hager needs to actually deliver over the next couple of days. May I suggest he invests more ‘Trust’ dollars on his reveals.
      Trumpets, balloons, international traitors, confetti, the Town Hall.


  • no bullswool

    I have been off the grid over the last few days. Wake up to this drivel. Here we go again! Innuendo, slurs and straight out lies. Hagar and his media stooges are at it again. This is getting sooooo tiresome. These people have no credibility. When will they learn that we don’t care about their dopey conspiracy theories. They were busted last time. Life is good, eldest graduated on Friday, spent weekend moving to another city to start her first full time job today. First chick to leave the nest.Life is good ,after 17 hours on the road, can say we are so lucky to be living in such a beautiful country.

    • Elmwood

      If NZ is as bad and corrupt as Hagar potreys, why doesn’t he leave and live somewhere else?

      • dumbshit

        Que a “give a little”, fundraiser for same!

        • Mark

          If I had any indication he would actually leave & stay away,I’d pay the whole airfare.

          • Miss McGerkinshaw

            AND guarantee never to return!

      • Miss McGerkinshaw

        Funny that, all these people who find NZ such a terrible place are still here.

  • edenman

    With TVNZ & RNZ staff working on the Panama Papers release we the NZ taxpayers are paying for the so called journalists & probably also there is probably a commission being paid to Hager.
    I would like to know what the cost of this attack on NZ is costing. If they get a budget cut in this months budget it will be well deserved

  • Wheninrome

    I think I am going for the basic human instinct of envy, jealousy etc., for the journalists involved. Think on, they got invited to The House of KDC so slavishly followed his every move, looked on him as some sort of “God” he provided them with “copy” ie paid for with food and drink.
    They obviously have never been invited to the house in Parnell, let alone the beach house in Omaha or Hawaii, therefore they “hate” all to do with John Key. He doesn’t give them what they want, or feel they deserve because of their position./

  • Karma

    It would appear Labour is so bereft of talent and leadership that, for the second time in as many years, they’ve allowed themselves to be manipulated by a third rate investigative ‘journalist’. As the saying goes – once is a mistake, twice is just careless.

  • Damon Mudgway

    Have the Marxist nancies orchestrating the hit job on John Key ever stopped to think the reason they can’t uncover any ‘real dirt’ on Key is because there may actually be none?

    It’s like turning over every stone on the banks of a river in the hope of finding a single gold nugget. Sooner or later you simply have to tire of the excercise and acknowledge you’re either looking in all the wrong places, or there is in fact no gold to find.

  • old school

    A newspaper this morning is asking ‘Family Violence, why does New Zealand have such a huge problem’. We all know the answer to this. we know where the majority of the violence comes from. Isn’t is time to stop asking silly questions and set about answering them.

    • Damon Mudgway

      Do mean Maori? Or are you reluctant to say it?

    • KGB

      It is disappointing they have distracted from child abuse (Moko) and moved along to domestic violence so quickly as usual.
      Domestic violence is alive and well in all races and income brackets. Though I agree there is a link, I don’t remember the last Remuera Lawyer who beat his wife before beating his child to death.
      Do I sympathise with victims of domestic violence? Only the 1st time.
      When they continue to focus on ‘family violence’ in general, they miss the point.
      Cultures that don’t value children over-represent, why? Most of us recognise our children as our greatest legacy, we want more for them they we had.
      Though I tread carefully at times in our PC world, there is no denying Maori culture in general needs to learn to honour their children.
      We will never fix child abuse by generalising it as family violence. It a seperate and serious evil that deserves its own identity.

      • Mark

        I am trying to tread carefully here because it is tempting to define it as a Maori problem & I still consider that as too simplistic. I hated the Feralds headline about being ashamed to be a NZr because of family violence,because that is preposterous.
        I do think however that our welfare system rewards having children you have not planned to care for & cherish,because the state is removing an important consideration in that planning,ie the money!

        • KGB

          In days gone bye all cultures produced as many children as possible, including Europeans. Survival rates were obviously lower but there was more to it than that.
          Looking at NZ history the families that settled here often produced a dozen children. Many hands make light work, and ensure the generational survival of family name and farmlands.
          The nescessity to produce sons has always been relevant in many cultures.
          During years of war we saw population severely decline. Not just because men were away, but because times were lean so produced less children. This trend continues today in NZ most produce the children we can afford.
          The English were once big on child slave labour and poor families were often large to generate this income.
          Maori culture has included using children as slaves and a travelling food source.
          Eskimo once used the elderly as a food source. It was accepted as fate once one could no longer contribute to survival.
          As much as I will offend those who deny history, Maori are yet to change their behavour toward children in general. Of course I am generalising, but when Maori continue to support, defend and enable, they too are responsible.
          Whanau first seldom relates to children first.
          We have a lot to learn from cultures who still live in extended families. When 3-4 generations share a home, income and child rearing, we see little child abuse. When was the last Chinese father or boyfriend in the news for killing a child?
          Some families in NZ still treat children as a source of survival, that is what has to change.

  • Old Kiwi

    Regarding the Panama papers and the number of times New Zealand is mentioned, a caller on talkback pointed out that because they are legal documents NZ will be written many times within each individual document. So in effect New Zealand maybe mentioned 1000s of times but there are a far fewer actual individual documents. Maybe only a much smaller number in reality. We all know how Hager and the “in” media will promote it.

  • SteveWrathall

    What a great decision, to grant refugee status to this young man. I would gladly double the quota if those being let in were apostates from the world’s most intolerant religion. http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/79759734/iranian-man-who-rejected-islam-granted-refugee-status-in-a-precedent-setting-case

  • Aucky

    APN shares are in a trading halt on the ASX pending the outcome of a meeting with Fairfax re a possible merger of their NZ interests. Monopolies Commission anyone?

    I think the print wing of the Media Party will be too busy gazing at their own navels over the next couple of days to bother too much about Andy’s revelations.

  • Jimbob

    Can’t remember seeing this but perhaps it did make the news somewhere in between Panama Papers “exclusives”?

  • Left Right Out

    Am I the only one that think Mossack Fonseca is such a cool name for a company? irrespective of what they are known for… I just find it a cool name

    • Seriously?

      Okay then, what is not a cool name…

      There used to be an accountancy firm on Shortland Street in Auckland, called Cox Arcus.

      How would you like to answer their main phone line.

  • Zanyzane

    “Liam Dann: Debt level high on RBNZ agenda

    Banks mostly have strong balance sheets but New Zealand’s private debt levels are high and rising.

    As at March the Bank had clocked New Zealand’s housing debt at nearly $216 billion, up eight per cent on a year earlier and fast approaching 100 per cent of our annual GDP.”


    The problem that Liam Dann has, is an attitude that if it sounds bad it is great headlines that sells newspapers. Like many economists he does not look at the other side of the equation which is the savings.. NZ household housing debt is only $133billion against NZ household savings of $152billion plus investments in shares and kiwisaver of $52 billion which equates to NZ household savings of $204billion.

    Liam is clearly misleading the general public and the government.


    Liam’s $216 billion includes student loans and credit card debt of $31 billion and $52 billion in Investment property debt. Investment Property debt is a commercial debt paid for by tenants income.

    NZ household income is supplemented by BnB, by hosting international students and by overseas income. 25% of NZ population was born overseas which equates to roughly 1 million people that may have an overseas business or a house which they derive a rental income. These numbers are not factored into NZ household income used as a completely erroneous number by economists.

    • Kleinholz

      RBNZ data at 30 June 2015 show that all net housing wealth, including rentals ($490 bn) was 44.9% of total household net wealth ($1,091 bn). Net financial assets were $600.1 bn.

      Gross debt of NZ households to gross assets was 12.6%. As a gearing ratio, not too much to worry about there.

      And the RBNZ data do not include all assets but probably cover all debt so the actual gearing ration was probably a little less than that.

      • Zanyzane

        Exactly right NZ debt is very low against total assets of $1.1 trillion

  • Wasapilot

    I am left wondering is this it Greg?

    If this is indeed it, for once I am left speechless, and that doesn’t happen often. Are labour, the melons, and hagar exposing something that was not secret, is not illegal, that labour created in the first place?

    I am genuinely lost.