Whaleoil General Debate

keep-calm-and-don-t-shoot-the-messenger-3Morning everyone, and welcome to Whaleoil’s daily General Debate post (another one called Backchat will start at 6pm). To participate you’ll need to register a free Disqus account.

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  • Isherman

    In an unusual event, I really must thank Helen Clark this morning, for giving me a great haughty laugh on my drive in to the office. Apparently, the UN she believes, needs to be at the forefront of “conflict prevention” in the middle east…If any one can manage to top that for stitch inducing hilarity today I certainly look forward to it.

    • shykiwibloke

      Sounds good to me – when is she likely to be arriving on the front line to personally help prevent these conflicts? Oh wait – she expects others to do the actual work…

      • kereru

        Nothing like shutting the stable door after the camel bolted years ago, and has left the rest of the inept UN in the dust. Empty rhetoric – and we’ve heard it all before. While the scales of the UN are tipped in favour of the largest block, the OIC, nothing will change. In fact, it’s already getting worse.


  • Quinton Hogg

    1.The herald front page. it is now competing with the womans weekly. the only thing that lightened my mood was sideswipe. My wife wasn’t that impressed with what i thought was funny.
    2.Kelvin Davis on Mike Hoskings. the only reason that some ratbags are in jail is that they cant afford “decent” lawyers. He moaned about legal aid lawyers a la Margaret Bazeley. He didn’t acknowledge that they might be in jail because they are bad buggers.

    • Dave

      Hmmmmm. True to his Labour Leaders form, KelvIn keeps finding reasons why he must never be anywhere near a position of power, The corrections Ministers job is to keep the crim’s inside and safe from other inmates, not find reasons to let them go.

  • GoingRight

    Last night on sky tv we watched an amazing Somali woman, Ayaan Hirsi Ali a women’s rights activist on the Bolt Report. She was so articulate and described why she no longer was a Muslim. I wonder if Spanish Bride has posted any of her thoughts? This interview was well worth seeing if someone knows how to access it. She spoke out against letting immigrant Muslims even allow halal food to become the norm as she said once that is achieved they will force another habit on the rest of us. Was very thought provoking. Would love to hear more of her interviews.

    • spanishbride

      Yes I have posted about her before. A really brave woman who lives under the threat of death every single day. Ex Muslims are the ones that we should be listening to. How they are treated by their ex community tells us a lot about Islam. How they are treated by our Progressive/Liberal community tells us a lot about how dangerous Progressive/Liberals can be.

      Instead of supporting her message and the message of ex Muslims like her, progressive voices condemn her and call her Islamophobic. Unfortunately it is only right leaning and libertarian voices like mine that support and promote the voices of ex Muslims.

      • spanishbride

        Found this reference to her on twitter today

        • Duchess of Pork

          Thanks for that post. Having read a few of her recent Twitter posts and articles I think Rita provides a refreshing young right-wing female viewpoint. Quite extraordinary in the heavily left-leaning MSM.

    • Greg M

      Interesting lady for sure. I read her book “heretic” last year, she has moderated her views somewhat compared to the earlier days but she certainly puts her finger on where the problems lie. Well worth a read.

  • kereru

    She spoke out against letting immigrant Muslims even allow halal food to become the norm as she said once that is achieved they will force another habit on the rest of us.

    Amen to that! It’s the start of an inevitable slow creep towards full Shariah Law. Islamic demands are not met until that happens – and it will if we keep ignoring the example of Europe. And that’s why we should start cutting our exports to the Muslim world and seek other markets.

  • LabTested

    Perchersk Lavra monastery. Established around 1051. A huge monastery. Lots of churches, acres of ground. It seems to have been built around the earlier monastery caves.

    Now the caves! – They are actually like a tunnel system. Some guy thought it would be good to live underground & pray all day. That caught on so they continually expanded it. Eventually you had a whole community of monks living permanently underground praying. Never seeing the light of day. Some even got themselves bricked up into their rooms with only a gap for bread and water to be passed through. The they prayed until they died.

    They have stopped that sort of thing now. But when you walk through the ‘Caves’ it is an incredibly long tunnel with endless glass topped coffins of the monks who had died there. The coffins all have glass lids & you can see the naturally mummified bodies in some cases.

    I was not alone down in the tunnels. There were lots of religious people stopping at each glass coffin & kissing it (which seemed awfully unhygienic) and some people just cuddled up to the coffins in corners (seriously)

    Anyway. A fun day out & I recommend Pechersk Lavra next time you are in Kiev

    • kereru

      Ugh, sounds quite gruesome. Why are they worshiping dead monks? Shudder.

      • LabTested

        even in a normal church you walk in and there are Icons of saints. So an Icon being a painting of a saint under a glass cover. People are literally lining up to kiss the glass cover.

        Now bearing in mind that the average Icon for kissing i saw was less than A3 size, I just couldn’t work out how kissing it wasn’t a health hazard giving the amount of lips over it in the last few minutes.

        But ..it would make a good excuse….No honey, I’ve been faithful, I just caught this off the Icon

      • Cadwallader

        Some people still support the Labour Party and it is showing signs of rigor-mortis!

        • johnandali

          The name of the problem (probably psychiatric in nature) is Labour Right Or Wrong.

    • Isherman

      Enjoying these postings from your travels around the continent. Great stuff. Somebody needs to take Bruce on one these excursions overseas.

    • Chris

      We were in Russia in January and visited a lot of churches. We were amazed how many people would come in and kiss and cry over the icons around each of these places of dead saints or whoever. Was quite an experience.

  • kereru

    Here’s an idea which is worth thinking about.

    A group of Kiwis is throwing their support behind a campaign calling for tourists to drive with “T-plates” on their rental cars.


    • Cadwallader

      If you then see a “T” plate on a car what are you meant to do…turn around and go home? Other than drawing attention to the fact that there’s a tourist driving a car how would it relate to road safety. Ought all tourists be made to sport “T” plates or just Phil Twyford’s usual suspects? I understand that thousands of Brits take their own cars on Euro holidays each year. Their cars are not designed to be driven on the Euro side of the road but instances of accidents are low.In NZ there’s obviously something else at play to cause the number of tourists related accidents. Is this number above the national average…I’m not so sure?

      • OT Richter

        Kind of like the “Baby on Board” signs. So what? Do I slow down, give you right of way, clap my hands for your breeding prowess?

        • kayaker

          The original reason for the Baby on Board signs was to alert rescuers to the fact should the vehicle be in an accident. Good reason in my book.

          • Platinum Fox

            Maybe so, but they would be counterproductive in many cases as many drivers leave those signs up all the time.

          • PsychoKea

            I thought it was to warn other drivers about impending random driving behaviour as the driver is distracted by a screaming child in the backseat

        • GoingRight

          My understanding is that ‘baby on board’ sign is so should there be an accident and people are injured or killed the rescuers would look for a small child.

        • Wheninrome

          Does warn us of the 9 year old driver and their mates on a joy ride in a stolen car.

        • Oh Please

          I thought this meant “I’ve had sleepless nights for I don’t know how long so I’m likely to do something stupid. Stay clear!”

      • Dave

        I think they are a beacon for thieves, especially in Northland where the locals think they are just revenue on wheels. If you’re travelling round a sweeping bend and a car coming towards you crosses the centre line, what are you supposed to do, look for the T plate and rink, oh, that explains it?

      • kereru

        If we see an L plate we don’t turn round and go home (though we might want to!). But it might make tourists take extra care to obey the rules as they are readily identifiable and other drivers to treat them with caution. At present we don’t even know if a tourist has a genuine licence. Even one life is worth preserving if this measure will make a difference. Note that it also includes a test.

        • Cadwallader

          I was being a bit facetious, but still, I cannot see how “T” plates will contribute to road safety.

        • Phooey

          We have a lot of feral Kiwi Drivers as well, in fact they are more dangerous than tourists IMO.

          • johcar

            Make them display an “F” plate?

        • Mark

          We have a lot more resident “Kiwis” on International licences,speculation is that it is as high as 50% of drivers on the roads.

      • Old Kiwi

        “T” for Target – the lowlifes will love it, but they are targeted already I suppose.

      • Mighty1

        Presumably the tourist would have to do a short nz driving introduction, a bit like say what you get before a buggy, canopy zip line, hiking, tour, etc. then they get the T plate or sticker or whatever. Good idea, just so they hear keep left keep left in a friendly environment. Sometimes I wonder if this anti tourist stuff is just parochial nimbyism though.

        • Oh right, a plane load of tourists, numbering 300 arrives and they all line up for their little driving test…sometimes people just don’t think things through.

          Then the next plane arrives and the next one and the next one…

          • Phooey

            Good point, I was more thinking about doing it at car rental, but you are right its EVERY planeload as they all can drive any car as long as they have a license.

          • GoingRight

            Yes the queues just to get a rental car can sometimes take a while even if all the paperwork is in order.

          • johnandali

            Yes, and if they have flown from Europe, it’s odds-on that they haven’t had a good sleep for close on 30 hours. Then they hop into a rental, and away they go. However, the cops never tell us the real statistics about crashes. How many people who cause accidents:
            Have been sleep deprived
            Normally drive on the other side of the road
            Have been driving at an excessive speed
            Have a forged drivers licence
            Don’t have a valid licence/car registration/WOF
            Have been consuming drugs or alcohol
            Have not been wearing seat belts
            Have absolutely no insurance (3rd party should be compulsory)
            Are in stolen cars
            Are avoiding police
            Are aged under 15
            Have arrest warrants out for them
            Have never paid traffic/toll fines
            Have a record of traffic offences

            So what do we really know about the people we’re on the road with? I would suggest absolutely nothing. When I was learning to drive some 60 years ago, my old man told me that the first rule of the road should be: Drive as if all the other drivers are insane.

        • Miss McGerkinshaw

          “Good idea, just so they hear keep left keep left in a friendly environment.”

          When living in Europe I swapped from left to right hand driving reasonably often. Let me tell you, much as I knew which side I was supposed to be on at times the mind wanders and ‘auto pilot kicks in. This happened more often on open roads where there was no traffic to ‘guide me’ and as most of NZ driving (especially if a tourist) is open road driving I understand how easily this can happen

          • Phooey

            I lived and drove a lot in the US when I was there for a year, motorcycle, and a van I delivered plants down to Los Angeles regularly. Only once did I drive the wrong way on an off ramp exiting the freeway, there was no other traffic to reference, strangely I had been driving several months with no issues before that happened. Never did it again!

          • Miss McGerkinshaw

            Ironically it’s often actually when we become comfortable with driving on the other side that our brain seems to relax and we go back to auto pilot. Although that doesn’t explain the tourists but they may well be distracted by ‘sightseeing and/or chatting’?

    • Beria

      Another idea would be to have a “U” plate for unlicensed kiwi drivers, who may be more numerous than the tourists. But better still, why not use the tourist dollar to improve road signage and pay for passing lanes and the things that make our roads so hazardous.

      • And ban cops parking their speed traps at the end of passing lanes.

        • axeman

          Dead Right. and stupid 3 km zero tolerance speed weekends or holidays.

        • johnandali

          And at the bottom of hills.

    • Yeah let’s also have people wear yellow stars.

    • Aucky

      How would you feel about reciprocating when you rent a car in Europe or the US?


    • Wheninrome

      Kelvin’s constituents would know which cars to target for thieving, the thieves won’t have to work so hard, definitely a labour idea, more reward less work.

      • Mark

        That is how tourists in Florida eventually got the right to carry handguns,and the stickers are removed from US rental cars for that reason.

      • OneTrack

        Dang. And here I was thinking this was a good idea for about 10 seconds to get to your comment.

    • Oh Please

      I find this amazing. Collectively Kiwis must be amongst the worst drivers in the world, but they bleat about others. Pull your heads in, you have nothing to be proud of.

    • Catriona

      In our town last week there was a hullabaloo – my god what’s happening? Police car, sirens and lights going full on. Turns out it was an Asian driver not knowing where the heck he was headed and that was in the middle of town. And we are a small town so it’s not like he was going the wrong way in the middle of Auckland.

      • FornaK

        Was the Asian driver in the police car?

  • R&BAvenger

    Housing affordability and rental issues drum being banged hard again on Red TV this morning with Little challenging the PM to go and have a look. Accuses him of being out of touch, WINZ overworked and no help. The fool hasn’t met any of these people living in cars and garages in their ‘home ‘ himself. Also says many have been to WINZ for help but for a variety of personal reasons can’t get help. Another clear shooting his own feet it would seem.
    Housing affordability and rentals us to be an issue in Christchurch but seems to have dropped off the radar. Might be because more housing stock and is still being built over the past 4-5 years.

    • Bartman

      A brokered deal – JK gets amongst it in ‘poverty’ street and Chippy gets to a few successful charter schools. Sorted!

    • KatB

      “Can’t get help for a variety of personal reasons”, think that explains the situation nicely. Gosh, maybe nasty old WINZ is requiring a bit of personal responsibility from people.

  • kereru

    Remind us again, Mr Woodhouse, why NZ is allowing multiple Egyptian imams into the country. If they’re so peaceable, why don’t they stay in Egypt and inform the perpetrators of these vile attacks that what they are doing is not Islamic?

    ‘A Christian church in Egypt was just torched to the ground at the hands of “extremists” on May 12. A video shows the structure burning as Christians scurry to throw pails of water on it.

    Why were these Christians meeting in a large “church tent” in the first place? Because the church they had built in 2009 was sealed off by authorities after local Muslims protested and rioted.

    Sometimes when the mob does not torch the church tents, the authorities do it themselves: Egyptian police destroyed the tent structure of St. Joseph Church, in another village in Minya, under the pretext that it was built without a license.

    As usual, this chain of events, Christian minorities having their churches closed and being forced to meet in tents, only to be persecuted again by police or mobs, is not an “aberration” limited to the experiences of Egypt’s Christians, but occur across the world, wherever Christians live under Muslim rule.


  • shykiwibloke

    Interesting post over on Kiwiblog – if the yanks don’t sign TPP then the leave the door wide open for China to control the pacific economy, and set world prices for some comodities.
    This cartoon from Thomas Sowell’s blog would seem appropriate!

    • axeman

      This is exactly why they will sign. I have said this all along, they originally weren’t going to be a part of it until it got such a head of steam that they had to be in or left out. And that’s why my friends we need to sign it as well

  • Seriously?

    Labour’s latest rant irritates me: Their complaint about approval of by the Overseas Investment Office of a purchase of land in Arrowtown on the basis of a $100,000 donation to a local school (as opposed to some other charitable cause).

    My kids go to a decile 10 primary school. It gets a fraction of the funding that lower decile schools get on the basis that the parents are in a position to contribute more to their children’s education. I think that is fair enough. For the majority of the families that is true. But it is a mistake to assume that all parents of kids at the school are able to do so. Some are not.

    The kids are required to have iPads in the mid to senior levels of the school, as well as getting to do other “nice to have” stuff. That is great. But it needs to be all or nothing, or else you mark some of the kids out from the rest. But some parents struggle to be able to afford that, and some simply cannot. The school has a scheme to help them. To pay for that it needs to fund raise, by school “fees” or otherwise.

    Lower decile schools do not face the same issue as they have funding to enable them to provide more of the nice to have extras without recourse to parents (but still do a good deal excellent of fundraising – my kids used to go to a decile three school before we moved house).

    This type of donation is fantastic. It lets the school provide the “nice to have extras” to some kids that may not otherwise have them.

    It seems Labour want one of three things:
    – increase funding to higher decile schools so that they can afford to pay for more of the nice to have extras without fund raising;
    – stop using the nice to have extras completely; or
    – have a poor corner at the school where the kids can be excluded form the activities that are nice to have extras.

    Ideology over substance. Disgusting.

    • Oh Please

      The other thing I find annoying about deciles is that it is calculated by the earnings of the local population, NOT the local school population. So if you have a number of childless 30-somethings (dinkies) or well-off older people (woopies) living in an area with their disposable income then it drags the decile rating up – while not relating to the families actually using the school. CRazy.

      • jcpry

        I don’t believe this is correct. The sample for determining the decile rating is drawn at random from the school roll – or at least it was when I was on a school board.It can be skewed if you get a “bad” sample to a high income area. In our school did incorporating a very high net worth area and area that was very socially disadvantaged it was desirable to have it weighted to the later as it could cost the school thousands if it went the other way. .

        • Seriously?

          Whatever the detail it seems to be a non-homogeneous catchment that presents issues, and that (I suspect) is the norm outside very big cities.

          Schools do very well at coping with that, and good ideas like this donation must help.

      • Aquarius 61

        How deciles are calculated can be found here.


        It would appear it is calculated based on the parents of the pupils at census time, but can be reviewed at the request of the school …

  • Nige.

    Damien O’Connor is a socialist.

    I’m getting sick of hearing them on the farming show. in todays rant he’s been blaming Johnny for making headlines and Mike Hosking for making headlines and claiming that they manipulate what people think and some sort of mass hypnosis that couldn’t be further from the bloody truth.

    • FornaK

      Don’t worry, I doubt Jamie would let him get away with those comments.
      Do they still invite the leader of the opposition on, in the interests of a balanced show???

      • Nige.

        He was blindsided. I think he put Jamie off him a but. Yes they have the minister of idiots on.

  • Seriously?

    I see the “hacker” has been demoted to a journalist. A bit of a heavy handed reaction, but I suppose it is justified in the circumstances.