Whaleoil General Debate

keep-calm-and-don-t-shoot-the-messenger-3Morning everyone, and welcome to Whaleoil’s daily General Debate post (another one called Backchat will start at 6pm). To participate you’ll need to register a free Disqus account.

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  • Woody

    Isn’t it amazing, Budget day and already the news is full of what is and isn’t in the Budget with several hours to go before its release. Most of the comment is made in a very authoritative way as well to give the impression that it has already been read by the repeaters.

    • Nige.

      self fulfilling prophesy. MAKING the headlines the news.

    • Aucky

      The usual useless speculation from clueless repeaters and lefty ‘economists’. 95% of the Budget has already been announced apart from the boring fiscal stuff but I’m really hoping that Bill pulls a giant gobsmacker out of the bag that totally outrages the left.

      • sheppy

        They’ll do anything to prevent the population thinking that the government is doing a good job, it’s their only hope of getting team red in charge so they can wreck the economy. Fortunately team red are so abysmally bad that putting lipstick on the pig doesn’t seem to work.
        Another fortunate thing is they don’t realise that taking their audience for fools makes the audience diminish, so every government hit job has less effect than the last one, and brings the day when the media business is no longer viable closer

        • OT Richter

          For sure. The negative responses from the opposition will be given the headlines: “Little Slams Budget”, “Peters – Budget is a Joke” etc, and all the positives will be lost in the fine print.

  • Uncle Bully

    At last! Something for the liberal lefties to celebrate. After years of apparently exploiting third world workers with low pay and sub-standard conditions, shoe manufacturers are going to let them get on with whatever they were doing before they were employed in shoe factories.


    Now all we need is a robot union organiser. You know, one who is adept at repeating the same monotonous mantra ad nauseam, and continues to mimic his support base by acting out the same dreary pantomime day in, day out.

  • Nige.

    I cant believe the hullabaloo being made about Konrad Hurrel being axed from the Warriors.

    Rightly or wrongly we all knew this was coming.

    Just like the budget its being whipped into a frenzy.

    • Aucky

      I can’t believe it either Nige. A struggling company axes an underperforming worker. Happens across the country on a daily basis.

    • Richard

      Maybe we could mash the two up and make Bill English the new Warriors head coach?

    • Jafarma

      Vatuvei may well be the next to go

      • leftrightout 2.0

        Doyle was just on the radio saying Manuel is going nowhere

        • Jafarma

          Pity. I think his best years are behind him and the ‘Wayne Bennett’ approach is needed – know when to let the high profile players go and move on

  • idbkiwi

    Fred Reed looks forward twenty years…

    “It was an epochal moment for the military and perhaps for all of society. Screwing up her courage, Air Force First Lieutenant Kara-Ann McBee walked into her commander’s office on the D-Ring of the Pentagon and announced that she was a giant squid.

    She did not appear to be a giant squid. “But I am, sir,” she said, rigidly at attention and clearly nervous. “I’ve known it since I was a little girl. I…sir, I am a squid trapped in a woman’s body. I’m trans-phylum, sir.”…consequences were to follow this modest beginning. Kara-Ann, not particularly militant, said that she just wanted to be respected as a cephalopod, although she did say that she thought the Air Force ought to provide her an aquarium to sleep in.”


    • KatB

      Very good and sadly not too far from the truth.

  • Papillon

    Duncan Grieve gives a scathing review of Bryan Bruce’s doco last night “World Class? Inside NZ Education”


    “It was a rambling, incoherent mess of a product, at once disdainful of testing and reliant on it, dated in its construction, sloppily assembled and willfully misrepresentative of both the intent and reality of the teaching systems it assessed.”

    Refreshing to see not everyone in the media is buying this biased one sided claptrap.

  • leftrightout 2.0

    I see NZ and labour have quite a bit in common….. a total lack of talent.

    NZF decided to change they way they would vote on a bill because Seymore from ACT was voting for it.

    Isn’t it great that these people who can’t get elected but are paid by us to represent us now not vote in relation to the issue but rather who else is voting for it

    Absolute idiots

    • ex-JAFA

      Messrs Peters and Seymour do not have much time for each other. One, however, just gets on with the job (but throws in the odd sledge here and there). The other tries to bully in the House and acts petulantly on important issues before the House.

      • MaryLou

        Surely it is time, then, given the gravity of the situation (the upcoming election), that ACT start actively wooing NZF’s audience? They are, by and large, relatively conservative, and whilst having almost cult-like tendencies, if NZF isn’t viable, surely ACT must be their next best fit? There is an audience ripe for the plucking both there and with the Conservative party that would do nothing to erode Nationals support base – which is also essential for ACT. The clock is ticking – surely we will see moves in this direction soon.

        Edit: Sorry, just saw your other comments.

        • Sailor Sam

          I party voted Conservative last time, so I am looking for the better alternative.
          National has gone to far left for my liking, so will be looking at ACT.

        • MarcWills

          After watching David’s performance in QT yesterday, I am not sure he still has the potential to make ACT into a success. David, stop the smart-alec performing, and start making a meaningful contribution to Parliament. It’s not as though there are not any real issues that can be debated and promoted. How about lobbying to increase the coverage of 3 strike laws for example, maybe to include drink drivers and home burglars. You will find enormous support on the back of your successful criminal law initiative, which got you where you are today.

          • ex-JAFA

            Would that he could. The limit on members’ bills means the party has to pick its fights carefully. And even with his staff and the party machine, there’s only so much he can work on at a time. Had he accepted the ministerial warrant offered last year, he wouldn’t even be able to pursue what he does.

          • IKIDUNOT

            That might be true, though I think the smart-alec behaviour is getting up our nose by now…substance David, substance!

    • Left Right Out

      Just so there is no confusion….. lro2.0 is me but on my mobile. For some reason when I signed it it gave me a new name and didn’t bring all my old posts across…… chances are high I am the problem….. but there we are one and the same

  • XCIA

    We were talking H&S and Public Liability the other day. Talking to my broker on this, I think its important to remember that Statutory Public Liability does provide cover for defence costs and will pay any reparation awarded by the court, but under the Act insurers can NOT pay any fine . In yesterday morning’s herald there is a report of a conviction following a death in a quarry , fined $54K and reparation $100K .

    • OT Richter

      Correct – you can’t insure or contract your way out of the H&S Act.

  • Isherman

    I’m envious of people in Napier this morning and other parts of the country where the 300th anniversary of the founding of the Royal Artillery is being marked. Nothing quite like starting the day to the sound of 105mm L-119’s ringin in ya ears.

  • kereru

    The Swiss have got it right.

    ‘Shaking teachers’ hands as a sign of respect is a longstanding tradition in Switzerland.
    When it emerged last month that a middle school had allowed two Syrian brothers aged 14 and 15 to avoid the tradition due to their religious beliefs, it sparked a national controversy. The boys, whose father is an imam, said their faith did not allow them to shake hands with a woman who was not related to them.

    The family’s citizenship process was halted and the migration office in Basel said it was seeking more information about the circumstances under which the boys’ father’s asylum request was approved. The authorities said in a statement on Wednesday that “the public interest concerning gender equality as well as integration of foreigners far outweighs that concerning the freedom of belief of students”.
    [my emphasis]


  • MaryLou

    So it appears the earth may not warm as much as previously thought:

    “….which means that Earth was not warming up so much in response to increased greenhouse gases alone.”


    But, you know, the science is settled, folks.

  • Macca

    I watched Winston during questing time last night going at it with Key and it left a very sour taste in my mouth. I don’t know whether he was 3 sheets to the wind or not (not really up to me to speculate), but even JK commented about his lack of coherence. Other MP’s from all sides were sniggering. I wonder how many other employees throughout the country could turn up to work scouggered after a liquid lunch and hold their job down.

    That aside, there is certainly no love lost between Peters and Key. That Peters could again hold the balance of power next year gauls me to my core. I can still remember Winston strutting up and down the corridors of Parliament going from one meeting to another whilst happily holding the country to ransom for weeks and weeks on end – all so his massively over inflated ego could be massaged by waiting media. Make no mistake, Peters could have gone with National for those 3 terms which Labour used to ruin New Zealand with their socialist policies but the baubles offered by Labour were just to much for the ppoisonous old sponge to refuse. Heaven only knows what Clarke ended up having to give him to buy his ‘loyalty’.

    I hate to say it but which ever way National goes next year they lose. If they don’t go with Peters, they have lost and if they do, they’re just as dead in the water.

    • MaryLou

      Which is why, although it’s getting too late in the day now, we really needed to see ACT with a massive increase in the polls. JK was right about the need for coalition partners, it’s just that the ones he has, and Winnie are all a disaster in the making. Dunne has to go, he is untrustworthy and only there because we all assumed he’d tow the Nat party line. The Maori party – I kinda don’t mind them being there, but it seems they are losing their supporter base. NZF cannot be trusted. We need a strong ACT, we really do.

      Edit to add: C’mon ex-Conservative voters, if you all go to ACT, there’s a wee jump in the polls right there. And NZF supporters – take a look!

      • Wheninrome

        Perhaps Act has got to start an aggressive campaign highlighting the situation. Lets hear about their other candidates who are they what have they done to persuade us they are suitable. We know what Winnie’s bunch stand for – Winnie, nothing else. I want to see them articulate the Act policies, not just their leader. They have to be believable that they have the goods.

        • ex-JAFA

          Things are underway in that department. Multi-pronged things.

          • Melissa

            Thank goodness for that, National need someone on their side! This constant hammering from all sides of the left is getting out of hand.

          • Wheninrome

            Certainly time to have the focus of attack split -shared, the left would then be like a rabbit in the headlights, too late to run.

          • Dave

            Fear not. When the village idiots try and pepper the main party with chicken littles droppings from their slingshots, the people’s appointed leader can marshal his right hand team to deflect and disarm the village idiots. Big Gerry, Paula, Steven, Judith and many others seem to be expert in stopping the endless attacks.

          • Disinfectant

            I voted for Stephen Franks.

            Act would have been so different today if he had won.

      • KGB

        I don’t like critising Act, but they appear to be a lost cause. They have failed to move in the polls for nearly 2 years and it’s only 12 months until the next election.
        Act don’t appear to be reinventing themselves in hope of change. Same boring leader, same lone likeable and witty Seymour.
        The Act brand is tainted by a run of flawed and failed members. Right or wrong it’s all about perception. Banks, Hide, Garret, Brash…
        Someone needs to start a new right-wing political party now, aiming at the 2020 election.

        • ex-JAFA

          How can you find Mr Seymour boring yet likeable and witty?

          In any case, things are well underway to address your concerns.

          • KGB

            Sorry worded poorly, I mean Jamie Whyte.
            Obviously not paying attention as he’s no long leader? He was still the go-to spokesperson not long ago. I’m sure I saw him recently on Q&A.

          • ex-JAFA

            Dr Whyte stood down as leader after the election. I suppose he couldn’t stomach the idea of sitting in the seats next to the Speaker (reserved for leaders of parties represented in the House – but who aren’t MPs themselves – to sit in silence). He’s still involved with the party, but not currently in any official capacity. If you saw him on telly, that may have been more in his role as a philosopher-at-large.

        • IKIDUNOT

          Maybe it’s wishful thinking but I think, being a small party with limited funds and all, that they keep their powder dry till closer to the elections. Many voters seem move their votes at the last minute.

        • sheppy

          I suspect their refugee policy has done them real damage in the eyes of many

    • Wheninrome

      As our Members of Parliament are voting on extremely important matters that effect the whole country and people there should be mandatory drug and alcohol testing before taking your seat (especially after the lunch break).
      If it is done for other workers in the outside world i.e. farm workers, forestry etc., it should be an absolute must.
      Not do as I say, but do as I do.

    • OT Richter

      The consolation would be the absolute shambles that a Labour/Green/NZF would be in coalition. Too many egos in one room. Quickly tempered by the fact that they would be ruining the country.

    • leftrightout 2.0

      I have read (and seen) Peters dislike for Key but have no idea where it stems from? Any help?

      • Time For Accountability

        Didn’t Key say a couple of elections ago that there was no way National would do a deal with Winnie? That position gave certain to voters.

        Someone else might clarify with a better memory.

        • STAG

          He did, many times, but not so much in 2014.

      • Kath Rutherford

        The same dislike that Mr Dot. Com has. didn’t Winnie get called out in parliament by Mr Key for visiting the ” mansion ” on three occasions Call me suspicious

    • taurangaruru

      I suspect Peters will make JK’s resignation a condition of any coalition. There are enough within National that would agree to this but the fallout would fracture the party & possibly the coalition government. Revenge for being ejected from the party is a major driver for Peters and there would be no greater act of revenge than destroying the party while in government

  • sheppy

    Finally some common sense.
    According to the TVNZ news app Judith Collins isn’t a fan of zero tolerance speed campaigns and is moving 100 cops from traffic duty to catching burglars.
    Chances are the road stats will actually improve during the holidays if they stop this paranoid speed tolerance nonsense. Well done Judith!

    • Skydog

      Interesting. I thought the Minister of Police could not interfere with Policing operations/strategies.

      • sheppy

        I don’t know the ins and outs of it, but it seems pretty pointless to have a Minister of Police if she can’t at a very high level steer their priorities. If she has to deal with complaints about burglaries not being solved, she should be able to direct more resources into that area.
        The cynical side of me expects that hidden away in the small print of the budget will be more funding for hidden speed cameras to replace the revenue!

  • Wheninrome

    Apparently if you are a TV3 (ex) employee you are entitled to a decent farewell present when your employment is terminated. A bunch of flowers doesn’t cut it (I hesitate to describe it as the Herald did)
    Perhaps they should realise that they got the present they deserved, I do not think I would have gone to the press telling the world how little I was “loved” by my former employer.

    • Seriously?

      Should have got him a Sky subscription so that he can watch John Oliver.

    • Mountie

      He should be thankful all I got was the cold shoulder.

  • MaryLou

    Oh dear, Venezuela hasn’t hit rock bottom yet. Now selling it’s gold reserves at a record pace, there is simply no momentum or will, even, to turn this thing around. I feel do sorry for the average Joe over there. It’s going to be messy.


    • oldmanNZ

      good time to buy some gold?


      In the eighties I spend quite a bit of time working in Venezuela…..we gave up eventually…too bloody corrupt….won’t have improved. No wonder these type of countries never seem to dig themselves out of the mess…..long live socialism.

    • Uncle Bully

      …the average José….

  • Aucky

    Regardless of what’s contained in the Budget what’s the bet that Andy isn’t already rehearsing his speech written by McCarten in front of the mirror? Usual ‘cut the crap John’ invective delivered with sneering Hitleresque mannerisms. Bill’s Budget may contain a few surprises, Little’s post-Budget speech won’t.

    • Wheninrome

      When you have no money for speech writers it is probably last year’s dusted off.
      Aren’t they all?

    • sheppy

      Time for a spot of Budget Bingo?
      Favorite phrases will likely be:
      “Rich Mates”
      “Come clean with NZ’s”
      “Worse Off”

      • MaryLou

        “Totally out of touch”

        • Huia

          Tax free haven.
          Illegal Trusts.
          Too many people with Chinky sounding names.
          NZ is full of people living in their cars.
          Not enough housing being made available for the poor despite the Government in the process of building a 1000 more homes.
          Will National stand by their statements?

      • Left Right Out

        Won’t solve the problem

      • Crowgirl

        “Doesn’t go far enough” from a Green, of course.

  • kereru

    ‘Sour grapes’ behind attack on Helen Clark, according to Newshub.

    One of Helen Clark’s former ministers says suggestions she’s a ruthless careerist are just “sour grapes”.

    An article published in Foreign Policy magazine has claimed Ms Clark has ended the careers of underlings in her bid for the United Nations’ top job. Ms Clark herself has called the allegations “totally fabricated”, and Labour’s deputy leader Annette King says it’s all rubbish.


  • Wheninrome

    Budget Day brings back memories of the past. There would be calls to fill up the car, buy lots of cigarettes and don’t forget the alcohol.
    My parents, farmers, would listen to the “wireless”, analysing all announcements as they were made.

    Now of course most announcements are made well in advance and we just await the hope of a nice surprise.

  • (pic) How come TVNZ haven’t died of embarrassment yet? They are still pushing the Panama Papers when everyone’s clearly seen it for a partisan incompetent hit job.

  • I always get a little flashback on budget day. Back in the late 90s I used to “live Blog” the budget, except that was before there was such a thing as a blog. They were called eZines then. Keep in mind that back then Telecom didn’t have Xtra, none of the radio or TV stations were on the Internet, and it was quite a unique conduit for budget information. Most people had to wait until the 6 o’clock news or the morning paper to get the details.

  • MaryLou

    I think it was KGB??? that introduced us to Milo the other night – gay conservative activist. Well. Haven’t things exploded. His talk at DePaul University was shut down by the BlackLivesMatter group in a most unsettling way, whilst DePaul security stood by and did nothing.

    Nice to know though, that other students have found this disturbing. Here’s one who gets his point across quite nicely:

  • Dan

    Well things have just got worse for Hillary, with the US State Dept Inspector General’s release of a report over her emails.

    The Washington Post states:
    “The inspector general, in a long awaited review obtained Wednesday by The Washington Post in advance of its publication, found that Clinton’s use of private email for public business was “not an appropriate method” of preserving documents and that her practices failed to comply with department policies meant to ensure that federal record laws are followed.”

    This could all be very very bad timing for the Democrats. It make you wonder if Superdelegates will shift sides, if they even can?

  • Johnno

    I’m getting thoroughly fed up with the media beat-up about housing affordability and homelessness. It seems to me that this is more about undermining the government rather than highlighting an issue and offering solutions.
    The media seem to portray housing affordability and homelessness as recent issues and criticise the government for not addressing these issues adequately. However, the truth is that housing affordability and homelessness are not new issues and have been around for decades.
    I well remember the 70’s and 80’s and seeing homeless people in Auckland’s CBD and many suburbs. Many of these homeless people were alcoholics and drug addicts. Back then there were also families sleeping in cars and no government, either Labour or National, has ever been successful in addressing this problem.
    A government simply cannot legislate for peoples’ poor choices in life. However, the government does provide a safety net for these people through the welfare system. As part of this welfare system the government has state houses to assist the most desperate cases. It is also not the government’s job to provide long-term housing for people and the allocation of a state house is generally a safety net until people are on their feet again and find suitable accommodation. The allocation of a state house is a privilege and not a right and if people abuse this privilege of course they will be evicted. And then they go to the media and complain about the uncaring government. I doubt we ever hear the true story about the reasons for their homelessness, for that would not suit the objectives of the media.
    As far as housing affordability is concerned, surely this is simple economic principles at work in a free market. If demand exceeds supply prices go up and similarly if demand weakens prices come down. I fail to see how the government can influence the market forces of a free economy and I do not believe that Labour could alter the market principles by directing the economy. Home owners will not be very happy if Labour forces their house value from say $800,000 to $500,000 by legislation to bring down property prices.
    We saw the effects of this during the Global Financial Crises, where people in the US saw the prices of their properties plummet and their mortgages were higher than the value of their houses. They just turned their backs to their properties and many people ended up camping in tents in parks all over the US, thereby increasing homelessness.
    Housing affordability has always been difficult and hard work. My wife and I bought our first house in 1980. We would have preferred to buy an existing house, but there was a housing shortage then as well and in order to stimulate the building of new houses the Muldoon government had legislated that banks could only provide mortgages to first home buyers if they built new houses. So we had no option but to build and this meant lots of additional costs putting in driveways and gardens, etc. To get enough finance we also had to take 3 mortgages at enormous interest rates at well over 20%. At one stage I worked 3 jobs to get rid of the 2nd and 3rd mortgage while my wife worked all hours possible as a nurse in hospital. It was tough and hard work and we made sacrifices and went without, but it is what we had to do to get our foot on the property ladder.
    From there we sold and bought several houses to accommodate the needs of the family. We are in our early sixties now and retired. The kids have all grown up and moved out and last year we downsized to a smaller house. We sold our house in Auckland at a good price and were able to buy a smaller property mortgage free in the Coromandel town of Whitianga, close to the beach and the ocean. We think it was worthwhile making sacrifices and going without in our earlier years and now enjoy the lifestyle we were dreaming of.
    So, as far as I’m concerned, housing affordability and homelessness are not new issues and have been around for decades. If Labour and the Greens were in government tomorrow they would not be able to fix this either and the left leaning media just use these issues as a weapon to hit the government with.