Whaleoil General Debate

keep-calm-and-don-t-shoot-the-messenger-3Morning everyone, and welcome to Whaleoil’s daily General Debate post (another one called Backchat will start at 6pm). To participate you’ll need to register a free Disqus account.

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  • Usaywot

    Jon Bridges gave an hilarious address at Massey University graduation. At one point he told the graduands that now that exams were over they had got past the most miserable time in their life. He went on to say that except maybe death or “you could be the Labour Party” Good laugh to start the day.

    • jimknowsall

      Wow, that’s brave for an academic!

  • Raibert

    Once again this mornings horrid has an editorial piece about John Keys comments on freeing up land by Auckland Council. Only Phil Goof and Vic Crone are commenters, seems the Horrid doesn’t think there are any other contenders.

  • Richard

    Rainy day forts rule!

    • JEL51

      How’z Richard’ fort coming along in this wonderful winter weather? Hope you have it at least to the lock-up stage by now.

      • Nige.

        He’s too busy eating bacon with his kids in the middle of it to come out and reply

        • JEL51

          Yup, hope you are right. Now you down there with your 4′ annual rain-fall will have no idea how easy it to turn a brand-new floor into a mud-bath whilst trying to finish things off. It’s nightmarish stuff.

          • Nige.

            Heh. It’s poured here overnight too. It’s rained in places it ain’t never rained in before. Everything is wet .

          • JEL51

            5 mls then?

  • Curly1952

    I see Vatuvei has come out bleating about the reaction toward his family after a late night out taking prescription drugs with his team “mates”. I don’t condone the bullying of children, but that’s the way kids are ( and I doubt it was bullying more like teasing). The best way to stop it is don’t be such an idiot in the first place. You broke the rules, knew you were doing wrong so don’t go bleating to me and others. Deal with it. You are one of the privileged ones being able to play a sport you love and get handsomely rewarded. Take a good look in the mirror sunshine.

    • Dan

      Seems he hasnt learned the basic societal rule of consequences. And you may well be right about teasing. Bullying is a well overused term.

  • George

    I have to raise something that, up to now, I have been rather reluctant to do and that is to discose that one of our daughters manages a branch of Work and Income here in Auckland. My motivation has been influenced by the sentencing of the cold blooded killer, Tully who murdered two Work and Income employees in Ashburton.

    Work and Income, is of course, a government department, and consequently, is targeted, monitored, critiqued and politisised by all and sundary. To put it crudely, it uses our money to support those we often rather it didn’t. The abuse is evenly distributed amongst those demanding money, those who are supplying the money and political manipulation.

    There are not many occupations where you are confronted daily with lies, threats and abuse. There are not many occupations where you are confronted daily with desperation and helplessness and there are not many accupations where you are confronted daily by the MSM and social agencies exposing your inadequacies, often without facts or accuracy. There are not many occupations where politicians keep moving the goal posts according to public pressure. There are not many occupations where you are constantly reminded that your interventions are ineffective. And there are not many occupations subjected to comments on social media that are so vile and demeaning. And most tragically, there are not many occupations where you are killed in cold blood simply because you are trying to do your job.

    Yes, I have an invested interest due to our daughter’s engagement in this profession, but I have nothing but admiration for those who serve us in this thankless environment. To those two dear women who where killed in the line of duty, may you rest in peace and there by the grace of God.

    • R&BAvenger

      I worked for the then DSW from 1981 to 1990. It wasn’t always pleasant but the clients were becoming more stroppy, fueled by beneficiary ‘advocates’. It’s important to get people their correct entitlement and provide them with good service. Having your life under threat is unacceptable. WINZ staff have a more challenging job compared to back in my day.

      • Huia

        Reminds me of a visit with my sister to a WINZ office to close off our late mother’s pension.
        The place was wall to wall people, my sister was breaking her heart over all the poor people who couldn’t get work, she went on and on so much that in the end I suggested she do a little exercise in her mind.
        She was to carefully look the people over and see whom she would offer employment to if she had a small office and was in the field to employ someone.
        She spent ages looking around and finally came back and told me she had found only one she would employ.
        She then pointed to the smart, clean, tidy woman behind the counter working who was being pleasant while putting up with the abuse and demands of the customer she was dealing with.

    • Mick Ie

      I have a close relative working in the a similar position. I could not tolerate what they have to most days. When I asked how they cope: the answer was, “The satisfaction I get in being able to help those that really are in genuine need”.

    • Eiselmann

      Did 13 years form 1986 to 1999 at various South Auckland offices , including one with a case load of 3000 per staff member when the ideal ratio was deemed 250 to 1.

      I experienced the best and the worst of people both staff and on the benefit. Violence, threats happened every day and policy around assistance changed with each news headline….. media focused on people struggling suddenly the rules around granting of SNG (Special needs grants) and Advances were relaxed….media focused on out of control government spending and the rules tightened, so you had cases of people getting money for food one week and the following week same set of circumstances and they got nothing. I tell you that caused havoc and happened more times than you’d think.

      And back then there was no security.

      It was an utterly thankless job you were blamed for every woe , and every person you saw was under pressure and looking at you to solve their problems….imagine dealing with that 30, 40 times a day every day ,having people come in angry, upset , demanding money or their kids go hungry . Imagine being alone in room full of patched gang members and having to say no. Imagine having to interveiw a drugged out pregnant teenage girl or a woman who’s face is a mess of brusies , imagine seeing kids punched by their parents to make them cry so that they would get seen quicker. Imagine all that and so much more and you can’t react to any of it.

      Most people couldn’t do that.


      • Damon Mudgway

        I guess the huge pay packet makes all the negative stuff bearable.

        Sarcasm aside, the staff at Work and Income have my admiration and respect. A tough job to be sure.

      • Nige.

        You have put it so perfectly. How did you find job satisfaction? Or did you not

        • Eiselmann

          Little victories ….when you were able to help someone who wanted to be helped. And every now and then you got a big victory, where you could use the tools at your disposal and effect real change for a person who had all but stopped trying.

          Sadly you could find yourself being hugged by a forty year old woman who had left school with nothing and now had a paying job for the first time in her life after three years of helping her get work experience and qualifications…and ten minutes later a beer bottle was being thrown at you because you couldn’t advance a months worth of benefit to pay for a child’s party (true story)….

      • Usaywot

        Having to go for an interview to get universal super was an extremely unpleasant experience. The people crowding out the waiting room were dirty, scruffy, losers. It sounds arrogant to say this but that’s the truth. I couldn’t get out of there quick enough. I think the woman who interviewed me enjoyed the respite from having to deal with them. We have certainly bred a massive underclass here and it has all been because of overly generous welfare. Get pregnant? Sure, the state will look after you. Drop out of school? Sure the state will look after you. Prefer watching TV to working? Sure the state will look after you..and on and on and on. When I worked at a high school I was astonished by the number of kids who were paid a benefit by the state to leave home while still at school because they didn’t get on with their parents

        To add: Hats off to WINZ staff

    • Frank N Further

      I have only ever been in a WINZ office twice. Once when I applied for funeral grant for my father, and the other when I applied for NZ Super. Depressing places, I hadn’t thought of the staff too much, but yes they do do a good job in often difficult circumstances.

    • Nermal

      I have on occasion dealt with WINZ in its various guises, first as a single parent after my wife left, then as as full time student doing a degree in my 50’s. I am by nature polite and courteous, and with one exception that has been reciprocated by the long suffering staff. I mentioned the exception to my case worker, who replied that that woman was a bitch to everyone, so not to feel offended. Had a good laugh together.

      Not a job I would want to do.

  • Korau

    Donald Trump’s best ally in winning over fellow Republicans is turning out to be Hillary Clinton.

    He overcame a “Never Trump” campaign aimed at blocking him from the Republican nomination. Now he’s benefiting from a wave of GOP donors, voters and conservative groups uniting under a new banner: “Never Hillary.”

    Funny how times and allegiances change. And looks like he still doesn’t need to spend his own money.

    • Brian Dingwall

      His most recent speech, in North Dakota, reveals his energy policy, and energy plan for his first 100 days.
      Here is my 100-day action plan:
      •We’re going to rescind all the job-destroying Obama executive actions including the Climate Action Plan and the Waters of the U.S. rule.
      •We’re going to save the coal industry and other industries threatened by Hillary Clinton’s extremist agenda.
      •I’m going to ask Trans Canada to renew its permit application for the Keystone Pipeline.
      •We’re going to lift moratoriums on energy production in federal areas
      •We’re going to revoke policies that impose unwarranted restrictions on new
      drilling technologies. These technologies create millions of jobs with a
      smaller footprint than ever before.
      •We’re going to cancel the Paris Climate Agreement and stop all payments of U.S. tax dollars to U.N. global warming programs.
      •Any regulation that is outdated, unnecessary, bad for workers, or contrary to the national interest will be scrapped. We will also eliminate duplication, provide regulatory certainty, and trust local officials and local residents.
      •Any future regulation will go through a simple test: is this regulation good for the American worker? If it doesn’t pass this test, the rule will not be approved.

      Nothing I have ever read (its worth two big bowls of popcorn) will arouse the fury of the luvvies more than this….
      First round KO of Obama, identifies why Hillary will be worse, appeals to middle America, just brilliant…..

      The whole thing is well worth reading. Paul Holmwood has a copy here https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2016/05/27/donald-trump-formal-policy-address-on-energy/#more-22337


      • Dan

        I think this is the first politician in living memory that has stated categorically that Climate Change is a hoax. How refreshing to hear there is one who is prepared to say what we know. But it is bound to have greenies in a real tiz.

        He should go further and block funding troughers of this fraud for good measure

        • Woody

          Didn’t Tony Abbott say much the same, perhaps not so forcefully though.

        • Mags

          And yet he wants to build a wall to protect his golf course in Ireland that is getting hammered from coastal erosion citing global warming.

          • Dan

            Well if people are atill crazy enough to keep paying out for CC things then why not!

            But then again he may have been put into this because of the council’s demand that he adds clauses to prove he is not going to damage the environment and what steps he is taking to alleviate CC

          • MarcWills

            Mags, can you tell us when there HASN’T been coastal erosion. It’s happened since we had land, seas, wind and waves as far as I know.

          • Mags

            That’s not the point I was making. In the golf course instance he is using the argument of global warming to assist his own cause. He’s not being consistent.

      • JEL51

        Imagine the calamitous effect if he gets a chance to even attempt to cancel the Paris Climate Agreement AND stop all payments of $US to UN global warming program. The msm will go for the throat as they did Tony Abbott but I doubt Trump would be out-circled by them.
        Can’t wait …

        • Nermal

          Hopefully him pointing out the king has got no clothes will encourage other world leaders (looking at you JK) to state the same.

          • JEL51

            The msm would come in for the kill a they did Tony Abbott but I think the American public wouldn’t be sucked in as our cousins across the ditch were.

      • Bartman

        Just plain common sense really – so many people I know scorn Trump- yet his approach resonates with me for its patriotism and fairness. His more nutty comments I hope are election hype and will be recinded.

      • JohnO

        Trump is going after the state of Pennsylvania. It is a Democrat state that is winnable for the Republicans and changes the “democrat lock on delegates” equation. Coal reserves are huge in Pennsylvania

    • Phooey

      Trump will be POTUS. Normal is not normal.

    • Sagacious Blonde

      Obama doing his best too. Slagging Trump on the World stage is only getting patriotic American backs up.
      A non-PC, non-pandering, straight talking Trump could very well be what the World needs at the moment.

      • Mick Ie

        Especially after reading Face of the Day… That lot are getting nuttier by the day.

  • Geordie

    I have just cooked bacon for breakfast and I thought I would share the trick to turning cheap bacon into great bacon. Before you put it in the fridge take the top of the packet off, so all the bacon is exposed to the dry air. It takes about 24 hours and then when you cook it there is no water and all you get is yummy crisp bacon! If you can;t wait until tomorrow morning, separate the rashes and put on a wire rack in the fridge.

    I only use sreaky bacon, so not sure how it works for the rest.

    • Wasapilot

      Another fine example of what keeps me coming back to WO

    • Dan

      Middle bacon tends to dry out too much. And anyway, streaky has much better flavour. IMO

    • kiwisnab

      I cook the streaky bacon till its getting crisp, then take it out of the pan and add the eggs to cook in the bacon fat. I also have hash browns and steak. Nice way to stat the weekend

    • I just put the last bit of bacon sammy in my mouth as I read that. That’s indeed a good tip.

    • jimknowsall

      Nice tip. Seems absurd that producers pump the bacon with water to get it looking plump and so you pay more (‘cos it weighs more) and then you have to dry it out again before use.

    • Cadwallader

      If given the chance the dry desert air of Iraq would be ideal for curing bacon! Then again perhaps not if you wish to live to eat it.

  • R&BAvenger

    Visiting Auckland for an overnight stay this weekend. Hoping to chill and enjoy the hospitality.

    • Ruahine

      Just looking out of my window here in AK. I think you may very well chill.

      • Isherman

        Here in two toe’s there’s a small patch of blue sky trying to make an appearance but I’m not sure it’s going to win out…and I’ve got a skip bin to fill today…typical.

        • If you have spare space at the end, I’m happy to cough up for a share.

          • Isherman

            Its only a 3m cube job, but if there is any worthwhile space at the end I’ll flick ya an email. I told the better half we probably wanted a bigger one, but they know best right:) It gets picked up on Monday.

    • jimknowsall

      Nice. Would that be a “Netflix and Chill”?

  • Huia

    Bucketing down on the Coromandel this morning, went on all night.
    Several power cuts and a lot of water lying around.
    Good day to hunker down and do some quilting (if the power stays on).
    Then of course you have quite different weather going on across the world, my son sent this to me from Canada yesterday, its doing the rounds.

    • Even if the power goes off I have a minimum of 2 days connectivity as long as the cell phone towers keep working. I can never use the excuse I can’t work because of a power cut…

  • jimknowsall

    The Maori emojis in the article yesterday got me thinking. Does anyone know what has happened to wai 262? I can’t find anything recent on this at all on the net. All you get is that the Waitangi Tribunal gave its report some 5 years ago. There seems to be no government response as yet. Has this been kicked into the long grass, or is National preparing some huge legal programme in which it submits to the tribunal’s demands?

  • Nige.

    The Nation. Bill English looking very human by actually groaning at Lisa Owen, mimicking what most of us do watching the “show”.

    On the other hand Grant Robertson almost reading from a script it seems. The questions and answers flow as thought they have been prepared.

    Why don’t they just change the name of the nation to “the sour hour” or “labours voice” or something?

    • KGB

      The best Bill English interview I’ve ever seen.
      Notice how she repeated the same questions over and over hoping BE would change his answer. She let Robbo get away without answering “how will Labour afford their promises.”
      You are spot on.

      • Nige.

        Notice how grant brought up about kids moving from school to school….then viola there is an in depth article about that very subject?

        Now that’s another subject. They didn’t disclose the most obvious questions. What did the boy die of? What was the real reason for moving to Australia (a fresh start means running from trouble to me and most people)? Do all her kids have the same father?

        The nation are amateurs and being part of a captive audience (let’s face it, there’s only a couple of places on TV we can go to to see political analysis,howeve biased) it makes me want to scream.

    • MrHippo

      It was a bit like JC on RNZ checkpoint on budget day… The only bit it was missing was “This has been a party political broadcast on behalf of the Labour Party”

  • KGB

    The Nation this morning pimps yet another ‘house crisis’ story.
    It is difficult to critise this single mother without seeming heartless because she lost a child. But I can’t excuse her poor decision making because of that loss.
    She has been in a SH for 2 years now. Prior to that she cries that at times they had no food, and had to move 7 times. (including a move to Australia)
    She phoned from Australia hoping a SH would be available on their return to NZ.
    WINZ put them up in a grotty motel and waved the $8k she cost the tax-payer. How dare WINZ put her up in a cheap motel!!!
    She is happy now she has a secure home. So happy she decided to add ANOTHER child to flame the fire of their poverty!
    Throughout the interview all I could think about is that baby in her arms. The interviewer obviously didn’t notice it because there were no questions or reference to it.
    This SH is NOT a house for life honey. It’s a stop-gap. Stop having babies you can’t afford and start getting your life in order.

    • Damon Mudgway

      Yeah, and this one:

      No mention of why they were evicted mind you. I get a bit sick of these shoddy sob stories.

      • KGB

        They both work, say $1000pw.
        They will be receiving about $900 per week in unsupported child allowances. (Plus all associated costs like school uniforms, trips, and fees. Dentists, glasses etc)
        Money is obviously not the problem.
        In the same rental for 5 years so should have excellent references.
        What aren’t they telling us?
        Where’s the parents of these 5 children?

    • Woody

      In the interests of my healthy blood pressure, I try to avoid such pimping stories.

      Poor life choices will inevitably result in poor outcomes and the older I get the less reason I can see as to why I have to pay for the results of other peoples poor choices.

    • 1dafool

      I only lasted 5mins this morning, couldn’t handle anymore of Lisa vs Bill English. Would any votes be lost if ministers didn’t go on these shows?
      Even a written response would end up being twisted and misrepresented, let them shriek into the abyss instead.

    • dumbshit

      This SH is NOT a house for life honey. It’s a stop-gap. Stop having babies you “we”,can’t afford and start getting your life in order.
      Just a random thought!

  • MaryLou

    Oh dear,. Listening to this I actually almost feel sorry for Andrew Little, apparently he is under massive pressure to move further left, because he’s too far right. Honestly, he can never, ever win:


    • Wasapilot

      I am ashamed to say that I had never neard of NBR Radio. Thanks foreducating me.

      Hooten hit the nail on the head.