Let’s cut through the BS and get to the heart of the matter

It is time to do a thought experiment.

If I told you that I was clearing out the garage and I came across some old things that I owned and no longer wanted, and I threw them into an incinerator because they were flammable, rather than give them away, would you think that I had done something immoral or dangerous?


Now, what if I told you that they were two old books?


Now, what if I make a video of me burning all my unwanted old stuff and post it on my Facebook page? Would you be concerned at all for my safety or the safety of my family if I mentioned that two of the old books were a bible and a koran?

Now, what if I post my drawing of the stick figure below on social media? Would you consider that to be  immoral or dangerous?


What if I told you that I was going to call my stick figure Jesus?

What if I called my stick figure Muhammad?

What if my daughter drew it because she is friends with a boy called Muhammad at kindy?

Would you be concerned at all for my safety or the safety of my family?

When it comes down to it, despite the millions of Muslims who are not fundamentalists, despite the sects that are peaceful, we both know that I will only be putting my life in danger if I burn a Koran and draw Muhammad. Only one religion in today’s modern times contains adherents who are so intolerant that burning a book and drawing a picture can genuinely put someone’s life in real danger. I use the word intolerant deliberately because we are constantly called upon to tolerate things that are intolerable from the ideology of Islam.

That is a real problem and it is an unacceptable one. Fear and Islam go hand in hand all over the world. Muslims are afraid of other Muslims. Muslim sects are afraid of other Muslim sects. Fear controls people. Fear is one of the most powerful forces known to man. How many gay men will now think twice about going to a gay club in America? How many cartoonists are now scared to satirise anything to do with Islam? How many women from Europe are now covering up to avoid ‘provoking’ new Muslim migrants and are carrying pepper spray in fear of being raped?

Many who support Islam from the liberal left do so out of fear. The left-wing non-Muslim who says that Islam is a religion of peace has more in common with me than they would care to admit. What we share is the exact same reason why we would both say no if asked to publicly burn a koran.

No doubt they would come up with reasons why they wouldn’t do it that are different to mine but they would be lying because they would burn a bible if asked to. The real reason why they wouldn’t burn a koran (which at the end of the day is just a book made of paper) is not because it is a symbol or because it is sacred but because they are scared of the consequences. Once we are too scared to burn a koran but not a bible then we are already living under the Sharia. A peaceful religion does not strike fear into the hearts of others.





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  • Jon Low

    True, that.

  • Jannie

    The message that the illiberal left seem to sending is “don’t speak out against Islam because to do so will inevitably end up offending them, and we don’t want that happening, because they’ll start calling us racists, xenophobes, Islamophobes, they’ll eventually end up rioting in the streets all because they inherently can’t handle mature or adult conversations or criticism of any kind. No. Let’s instead keep the peace by burying our heads in the sand. Let’s self-censor ourselves, because that way, we can keep living our ordinary lives inside the safe space bubble we’ve all created for ourselves”.

    • RG52

      You are right, but sooner or later we are going to have to stand up to immigration so we are not importing any more nonsense here. Peters is the only politician who has made mention of allowing them here, and I would hate to have to vote for him, but non of the other politicians seem willing to step away from the PC line that it’s only a few radicals etc, etc. The liberties of our future generations are at stake, how long can we let this go on for before we act?

    • Raibert

      It’s not a safe space bubble! Just ignoring the threat that sharia poses to western democracies does not mean it will go away. Being in any way tolerant of evil is just plain wrong.

      • Jannie

        That’s exactly my point.

        The illiberal leftists who want to promote diversity at the cost of all of our other moral codes and values seem to be completely unaware that this threat is on our doorstep.

        Can anyone tell me how many mosques there are today compared with 5 years ago? 10 years ago? 20?

      • waldopepper

        the words of edmund burke spring to mind “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

  • Cadwallader

    The fact we even consider self-censoring depicts that our “leaders” are not leading but cowering. If leaders operate from a position of fear then an entire society will emulate them.

  • Boondecker

    This debate on the matter had me in chuckles…


    • PersonOfColor:WHITE

      Nearly wet myself! How contemporary….and true.

  • BR

    If you burn anything these days the jack booted zealots from the council will come round to your house and beat you over the head with fines and punishments.


    • venator

      And good on them. Smoke from garden incinerators and cigarette smoke are my two big hates. There is some twit of a man living towards the back of the valley in Days Bay, who will have at least two big smoke ups twice a year and normally when the wind takes it away from his house. What ever he burns in his incinerator does not have a pleasant odour. I think it is time I sort the idiot out. And using the ‘jack booted zealots’ might be the answer.

      • johcar

        Put it about that he’s burning Korans and your problem will disappear…

    • Uncle Bully

      If you’re lucky. Last time I annoyed my city neighbours with an incinerator fire I got the fire brigade.

  • cows4me

    “Many of the so called Liberal left do so out of fear”, it’s probably more likely to be outright naivety. Liberals tend to believe in a world the way it should be , example. The constant call for funding be it for the poor, housing , health etc. They tend to do this with no real understanding where the money will come from to support such endeavors, it just appears. The same with Muslim immigration, they’ll be right they just need a big cuddle and a cup of tea. Look at the ones protesting because they want more refugees, all well meaning but truly naive. Liberals see the world the way children do, things just happen, all you need is love and someone else will pay.

    • cod

      The Germans have a word for it “Weltschmerz” it means physical reality can never satisfy the demands of the mind.

  • metalnwood

    Yep Islam goes all weird but in my case if I burn a book it’s likely to be some old novel no one cares about and I call all my stick figures Bob.

    I can’t say I am disappointed by not being burdened by religion myself.

    How do you tell 1.6 billion people to grow up though.

    • Seriously?

      What we need is for the 1.6 billion to start to tell each other to grow up. You can speak sense, decency, humanity from the outside, but as long as those messages are coming from the outside they will be ignored. Islam needs a movement that reforms it from within.

      But from where I sit I see no significant signs of that happening, and in the current climate it is a brave Muslim who speaks out.

      I would love nothing more than to see all religion fade and die next week, or in the next decade. To be looked back on as a historical curiosity much like we now do the belief in Thor or Ra. But that won’t happen, the current ones will fade and die eventually but new ones are likely to their place. The most we can really hope for is that they are, and remain, a benign influence that stands separate from how we organise our society and laws. In most of the western world (I’d exclude the US) we are at that point now, or close enough to be proud of and defend.

    • PersonOfColor:WHITE

      Unfortunately, metalnwood, they want to burden you. And they don’t have any intention of making it optional. Your opinion about their maturity is not relevant to them. Sometimes you have to take sides.

    • KatB

      I must agree with you, I’m pleased I’m not burdened by religion either.

  • TM

    The greatest aspect of living in NZ is freedom of speech. We can criticize anyone we like without fear of real danger. Unfortunately that is not the case in many other countries, including unfortunately almost all muslim countries. The simple reality is we now clearly know that there is an issue with Muslims. So we should not let them come to NZ, as with the potential situation in the US, until a time arrives where their leaders renounce their terror proclamations.

  • Tiger

    Precisely, the line separating order from chaos is very thin. We must be vigilant against the perpetrating and fostering of this fear.
    And in a friendly ME country near you, one which in a few short years will hold the world’s largest spectacle – don’t get raped! http://www.news24.com/World/News/qatar-convicts-dutch-tourist-who-says-she-was-raped-20160613

  • Whitey

    Well said Spanish Bride, and it needs to be said. There is a serious problem with Islam. The problem is specific to Islam too, we don’t see it with other religions. Yes, fundamentalist Christians can be pretty hateful towards gays and other people they don’t like, but they are a minority within the Christian population and very seldom commit violent crimes. Even the Westboro Baptist Church doesn’t actually shoot or bomb anyone.

    I know that not all Muslims are terrorists and not all Muslims condone terrorist activities, but the fact remains. Islam has a problem. Until I am convinced that the Islamic community as a whole is on top of that problem, I will oppose Muslim immigration to NZ.

  • The Fat Man

    We may already be to late.

  • Bryan

    “All it takes for Bad to prevail is, Good people to do nothing”