Minor has abortion without parents’ knowledge, is now infertile

Whaleoil faithful LesleyNZ wrote:

Apart from the parental authority being taken away by the state, the girl was made infertile because she had this abortion.

She cannot have any more children, ever.

The authorities are responsible for this girl’s infertility.

Also, the parents of this girl had their right to grandparenthood taken away from them by the state.

These MPs are disgraceful and shameful.

I want to know which MPs were involved in rejecting the petition – which I signed

This issue was dealt with by the Law and Order Select committee. It’s members include:

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It should be noted that the National party have a majority on the committee, but they did not back conservative values.

I’ve not been able to find the report. Perhaps readers can do a little hunting to get the answer as to how the vote went on this particular issue:  https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/sc/scl/law-and-order/tab/business

 

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  • Papillon

    Puzzling, not a single female member on the Law and Order Select committee. So a group of men disregarded a highly signed petition that aims to protect the health and wellbeing of young women by ensuring adequate family support.

    • Shalice

      Unbelievable, this is very alarming

      • spanishbride

        Their decision or the fact that National do not represent conservative values any more?

        • Shalice

          All of it! The decision itself, the members of the committee being all male and the fact that it has a National majority yet the result was nowhere near conservative.
          What next I wonder? Soon they will all quietly set the age of consent to 12 too

  • SnapperW

    “right to grandparenthood”? When did this new right appear on the scene? Is it the right to compel one’s daughter to bear a child?

    • kayaker

      Possibly it meant being grandparents of future children.

      • SnapperW

        How can anyone possibly have such a right?

  • bilgewater

    National hasn’t represented conservative values for years.
    Conservative values to my mind are libertarian light.
    Unfortunately they’re the only game in town.

  • cows4me

    While this is an exceptionally sad case we can’t be sure what the outcome would have been had the girls parents been informed, she may still have had an abortion and had the same issue but that isn’t the point in all of this. There’s a lot of arrogance here, it’s the continual arrogance of politicians that give no credence to the majority thoughts on the matter. They know best, they are so informed, they are protecting the vulnerable, horse manure. They don’t know best, they are informed, yes by those pushing their own agenda, they are protecting the vulnerable, no this is also governance to the lowest common denominator. Some parents lose it so it’s claimed all will lose it, it’s an excuse, nothing more.

    • Shalice

      Exactly, it’s aimed at a minority. The majority of parents are not like that. But they are ignored:-(

    • Usaywot

      Same with the anti smacking bill. Now we have a whole generation of uncontrolled brats.

      • WeaselKiss

        Well there is 167,000 hours of expensive parliamentary hot air* summarized right there.
        *(OK I made up that bit about the 167,000 hours but the rest is true!)

  • Shalice

    Just found this on the statistics of how many of these abortions are done – not sure how credible this is but looks like an underestimation
    https://www.familyfirst.org.nz/2016/07/committee-report-misleads-public-on-secret-teen-abortions/

    Ed: typo

    • Nige.

      60 per year????? That’s incredible.

    • jonno1

      Leighton Smith picked up on this this morning, citing an average of ~280/year over 10 years. These are official statistics from the ASC itself. While there must be provision for extenuating circumstances (ie dodgy parents), the default position must be informing the parents.

      • Keyser Soze

        Agree the default position must be to inform the parents… As long as there is an out if that is not in the best interests of the girl.

  • SlightlyStrange

    One minor quibble – no one has a right to Grandparent-hood. No-one.

    • SnapperW

      Exactly what I said, but the mods removed my comment. Very puzzled.

    • LesleyNZ

      You do when the state decides that your grandchild is to be aborted without your knowledge. Hillary (the mum) said she would have raised the child.

      • Mick Ie

        I would hope the mother wouldn’t have forced her young daughter to go through an unwanted pregnancy just so she could get to raise it. Imagine the trauma for the daughter living in the same house as her unwanted child, because mum said she had to have it. Is this the core reason she didn’t tell her mum (parents) in the first instance and sought support for outside of the family?
        This is a no win situation for anyone,

        • LesleyNZ

          We will never know because the parents never got the opportunity to discuss options with their daughter because the state (the school and the health nurse) decided to take control and arrange an abortion and to top it off they deliberately lied to the parents. Just disgraceful and wrong and I do not know how all those men on the Law and Order Select Committee can condone the telling of lies to the parents about the abortion. There would not be many children who feel comfortable telling their parents they have had sex and got pregnant. The way the health nurse dealt with the this situation was wrong. She and the school would have known this family and what the family unit was like. The mother was worried why her daughter was not home from school and had missed the bus and had to call up the school on the afternoon of the abortion to see if they knew where her daughter was. They then lied to the parents saying she had been to a counselling session. The health nurse and the school are not only responsible for this girls infertility they are also responsible for her mental stability and the fact she tried to take her life. They made her live a lie. How dreadful is that. And the Law and Order Select Committee men think this was ok? The health nurse and the school who represent the state have shown they can not be trusted. How many other health nurses and schools think like the ones in this sad story? Talking about a child’s relationship with their parents Hillary herself says it well herself. In her case the state intervened and took over parental responsibility and consent, messed up the poor girl’s mind and put a wedge between the girl and her parents to the point where the daughter tried to take her own life.This should never have happened and should not be allowed to happen again yet the men on the Law and Order Select Committee have decided otherwise. Here is what Hillary said about the child/parent relationship. “Familial relationships are the backbone of our society. Good familial relationships are to be encouraged and this precept is reinforced across government agencies with incentives through education, the tax systems, welfare agencies and the likes by the payment of child tax credits, working for families, and the like. Parents are kept informed of a child’s progress through school and are penalised with threat of legal sanction if they neglect their roles as parents. Parents are encouraged to do the best by their children by having them immunised, properly fed and cared-for, sheltered, encouraged in learning and development.
          Yet in one aspect, parents can be kept at arm’s-length in spite of a lifetime of love and concern for their child.
          It should be a right of parenthood that the mum and dad with children in their care, know of medical procedures performed on their children. This is because it is a right that a child, having undergone medical procedures, has the best care and treatment during the procedure and in the recovery and recuperation period. It seems to be in the best interests of young people undergoing medical treatment that they have the best support possible from their parents.
          When patients are minors and a decision is made to withhold information of procedures from parents and guardians that decision must be made in full appreciation of the facts, not merely on the perceptions of a stressed child, who may well have a skewed view of the likely response of her parents. That view being coloured by feelings of shame, guilt, a lack of willingness to confront the responsibilities of parenthood themselves, or to account for their behaviours as is normal in a relationship between a parent and a child.
          Society, the law and government agencies expect parents to take responsibilities for the behaviours of their children. We do this across government agencies such as health, education, welfare, and justice, yet when it comes to abortion, parents can be locked out of the process and still be left to clean up the mess left behind. Frequently they only get to hear of the procedure when they are dealing with a distraught child who is displaying psychological trauma and acting out in anti-social behaviours such as self-harm or abusive and disorderly or criminal behaviours.
          Without knowledge of what lies behind the behaviours exhibited by the child, the parent may react in an unhelpful and inappropriate, yet entirely understandable way, given their lack of understanding of the background to that behaviour.” http://hillaryslawnz.digiwebhosting.com/hillarys-story/

  • JEL51

    That is so sad, so needlessly sad and as I see it, we should be demanding changes…….now.
    Way back, God knows when, there were stats out on cervical cancer rates. The lowest rates in the Western World were among the Israeli women and it was deduced that, that was because of cultural influences, they waited till they were in their early twenties before they began sexual activity. Any earlier, the cells lining the cervix were immature and less able to fend off viruses etc.
    I am absolutely astounded that ‘children’ younger that 16 are involved sexually but as I said earlier in the day, I am not of this era.
    There is a real need to re-assess what is being passed on through educational institutes because there is a lot wrong with what is currently happening.

  • This is a horrible story, but infertility is a rare complication of abortion. The real issue is that you are leaving the decision to inform the parents in the hands of a terrified teenager. By not informing parents, you are removing almost all the normal support structures from her, whilst subjecting her to an extremely scary procedure with known serious mental health outcomes. Anyone who thinks this is a good idea is an utter moron.

  • Keyser Soze

    While there seems to be a very clear majority of WO commenters who are anti-abortion I suspect this is not reflective of NZ as a whole. I am pro-choice however I am torn over the issue of parental notification. The father in me screams that I would want and have a right to know. At the same time I can see that enforcing this could be problematic if the girl comes from an abusive family. Consider a situation where authorities *know* that by informing mum/dad the girl is at greater risk but are legally bound to do so. Would you take responsibility if the girl were subsequently harmed/abandoned by her family over a silly teen mistake? And let’s face it, those families are more likely to be affected. It appears that by those numbers (…fewer than 10…) this is largely a non-issue – the more dysfunctional/savage families are probably affected and in that case it is right to protect the girl’s privacy.

    • KatB

      So if you know the girl is in an abusive family, you’d just give her the abortion then send her home into that abusive family?

      • Keyser Soze

        No. But you’re not debating the points I make. Compulsory notification could be dangerous and the status quo appears to be working – very few parents are not being notified.

        • KatB

          The way I see it is, if the girls family situation is such that is it too dangerous for her to inform her parents of her pregnancy, then now you know what her family life is like, you can’t leave her there abortion or no abortion. So then you have to intervene, why not intervene before the abortion, make sure the girl is safe and tell her parents and go from there. The status quo is not working. Hilary’s story is certainly not a one off.

          • Keyser Soze

            So in an altogether common situation where the girl would only be unsafe if her family found out she is pregnant, you’re going to create that environment for her. Or you’re going to remove a girl from an unsafe environment, away from the influence and control of her parents. Then, you’re going to tell those parents, who care so little about their daughter that she’s had to have been taken into state custody, that she is pregnant and wants to have an abortion? To what end? So those same uncaring parents can have some sort of say in bringing a new child into the same dysfunctional family? Face it, making parental notification mandatory sounds brilliant but in reality is fraught with even greater risk to the most vulnerable.

          • KatB

            Most parents are going to be disappointed, (to say the least), upon hearing their underage child is pregnant, but if they’re truly going to be abusive about it, then there’s something completely wrong in the household and they need help and the kid needs to be removed. I can’t see how giving the girl a secret abortion then sending her back into that home is helping anybody. You’re right, the most vulnerable need protection and who is going to care for that vulnerable girl after the abortion? The aftercare is sadly very lacking. Now the girl is faced with a dysfunctional/abusive family life and the aftermath of an abortion all on her own.

          • Keyser Soze

            I fully agree that aftercare is absolutely critical however that is a totally seperate issue to that of mandatory parental notification.

        • LesleyNZ

          How do you know that very few parents are not being notified? It was only after the daughter tried to take her own life that the parents found out that their daughter had not been to a counselling session but to have an abortion otherwise they would not have known anything. The parents were blatantly and deliberately lied to by the school and health nurse and this lie and abortion nearly destroyed a beloved daughter. The status quo is not working and this case proves it. Surely you do not think that Hillary and her husband are dangerous? The dangerous ones here are the school and the obviously pro-abortion/choice health nurse who ran roughshod over the parents, leaving a young girl infertile and the parents to pick up the pieces. Has there been an investigation into the actions of the school and the health nurse and deliberate lie that was told to the parents and the resulting infertility that happened because of a botched abortion? If not there should be an investigation. I don’t know how these men on the Law and Order Select Committee can look at themselves in the mirror.

  • Plantagenet

    I don’t agree that there is a right to ‘grandparenthood’ but I do agree that the authorities are absolutely to blame for the fact that this girl is now infertile. They should be sued to the ends of the earth.

    • Shalice

      I wouldn’t say “right” but more “hope of grand parenthood” would be more appropriate. Most people do have them but of course there’s no legal right for it or any legal obligation in the children. Life is not all laws though – people talk about empathy but it only seems to be important for minorities and not for the average sort of people anymore.

  • LovetoTeach

    Are National supposed to be the party of conservative values? Not why I vote for them

  • KiwiDR

    What evidence is there that the abortion caused her infertility? There are multiple causes of infertility, in a young woman not using barrier contraception the most likely cause is PID. Secondly there are good reasons why young women should have access to contraception and abortions without parental involvement/consent, this shouldn’t change. If you want to know what your daughters are doing then develop a relationship with them where they feel comfortable having a discussion with you about these things and where they are able to go to you for advice.

    • KatB

      I think it’s a bit harsh to suggest that it’s because these girls didn’t have a good enough relationship with their parents that they sought an abortion without their parents knowledge. I can see the exact opposite happening actually. I can imagine a girl having a great relationship with her parents and them being so proud of her and her never having done anything off track in her life, that to have to admit to them that she did something really out of character that ended in a completely unforeseen pregnancy could cause a girl to hide it from her parents.

      • KiwiDR

        Having sex is human nature and it’s a fact of life that teenagers will have sex. If they are able to have an honest discussion with their parents about this then that’s great, if not they should be able to seek help/advice from elsewhere. The fact that this girl became pregnant in the first place would suggest she didn’t have the best education/support/advice prior to embarking on a sexual relationship. And with regards to the term “unforeseen pregnancy”, I’m not sure what you mean….if you have sex multiple times and don’t use contraception there’s a good chance you will become pregnant – that’s science.

        • LesleyNZ

          You can have the best sex education in the world and still get pregnant. In fact our schools are supposed to be providing the best sex education these days – aren’t they? Often it is “good” girls who have never been sexually active before who get pregnant. I reckon very few children like to discuss sex (other than the birds and bees talk) with their parents – in fact they tend to prefer to think that their parents don’t ever have sex. We do not know the situation with this girl but going on how her mother has led her Hillary’s Law campaign, Hillary loves her daughter very much.

        • KatB

          When i say unforeseen pregnancy, I mean a girl you would never imagine to be having sex or getting pregnant. I went to school with a girl who got pregnant young, was not promiscuous, not your first choice of girls who you would guess would get themselves pregnant. She came from a great home and she was not a silly girl. It happens and it’s those sort of situations that girls may be too ashamed to admit they’ve done something silly and out of the norm from their usual disciplined high achieving life. No matter how great of a relationship you have with your parents, it’s only natural to not tell you parents everything, that’s what growing up and working things out is all about.

  • Doc45

    Its a difficult call. Where are greatest risks? A young girl not really old enough to cope on her own even with counselling with an abortion and the aftermath or the same girl having her parents find out and ending up in an abusive situation. On balance I think its better the parents are informed. There is too much of the PC, “rights”, feminist ring to the first situation.
    This I do know. It is a sad situation when a girl is not sufficiently befriended and close to her mother that she wouldn’t be the very first person the girl would go to. The world would be a better place if we had better parents.

  • LesleyNZ

    Well – I never. It is all men on the committee! In this day and age how can that be right? Thank you for the list.

  • LesleyNZ

    Have a read of Hillary’s Law website. http://hillaryslaw.org.nz/hillarys-story/ It details exactly what happened and the circumstances and how she only found out about the abortion when her daughter tried to hang herself. This mother cares very much for her daughter and the family life is a loving one not an abusive one. The Health nurse told a blatant lie to Hillary. Here is some of the detail: “One day in September 2009, our 15 year old daughter did not come home from school on the bus. I was worried and rang the school office to find out where she was. The school receptionist could not give me any indication of her whereabouts. At around 5.30 that evening, a community health nurse brought her home. The health nurse sat down at our table and told us she had taken our daughter to New Plymouth for a counselling appointment.After this day, our daughter began behaving strangely. This was a sudden an unexpected change. She went from being happy in herself to emotionally unstable, with extreme highs and extreme suicidal lows. We wondered what had happened to have triggered this change. We tried to talk to her, but she just wouldn’t talk to us. This was heart breaking for my husband and myself.Life changed drastically from this point. Our daughter changed. Our life as a family was turned upside down. We were scared to go to sleep because we were unsure if she would be alive the next day. One day we had a disagreement. I wanted to know why my girl had changed so much and so suddenly. Later that day, she tried to take her life by hanging herself from a rafter in the garage. Her sisters found her and cut her down just in time. It was then that our daughter told us why the health nurse had brought her home a year ago. The nurse had not taken her to a counselling appointment; instead she picked our daughter up from school and took her to an abortion clinic.”

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